Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

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Re: Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

Postby greenskull » 06 Feb 2011, 01:23

I can't get signal past IC1, so I know I screwed up bad somewhere else anyway, but good to hear it got Barcode out of debugging mode. Really dreading switching out the chips 'cause I soldered them in without sockets.....damn!!!!!!!!
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Re: Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

Postby Barcode » 06 Feb 2011, 01:30

I'm getting about a 1.5 to 2 volt drop after the voltage resistor, so I would definitely say there is an issue. Getting no signal after IC1 is to be expected, and doesn't mean that one is the culprit. Whichever IC is bad is dropping the voltage low enough that it won't operate and pass signal.
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Re: Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

Postby Scruffie » 06 Feb 2011, 04:27

Barcode wrote:Oh. My. God. I swear I checked that, but I must have been mistaken. Sure enough, flipped the transistor around and BOOM! Phasing all over the place. I did have some serious hum, but it must have been a cold solder joint because I went back over and remelted all the wiring connection solder joints and now the noise is gone. I still couldn't get the boost to work, but I don't think I'll need it. This thing sounds AMAZING.

It's a lovely Phaser isn't it :D Glad you got it working!

Boost still not working? I'll have to install it in mine and try but I really don't see what wouldn't work about it unless express PCB messed that bit up somehow.

greenskull wrote:I can't get signal past IC1, so I know I screwed up bad somewhere else anyway, but good to hear it got Barcode out of debugging mode. Really dreading switching out the chips 'cause I soldered them in without sockets.....damn!!!!!!!!


Yeah... for any future builds of this build, Sockets are a must, it's quite the picky one it seems, well any circuit with blown opamps would be but still, be cautious, but we'll get it working :wink:
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Re: Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

Postby greenskull » 06 Feb 2011, 04:48

I give up, I can't get the IC's loose even with a desolder pump..... hopefully another round of boards are made soon and I'll try again from scratch.
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Re: Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

Postby ckyvick » 06 Feb 2011, 05:54

Did they say the pcbs were sold out? I dont know if they were planning on making another order of these...
Do you have a desoldering iron? They are available at radio shack for cheap(under 15$)
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Re: Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

Postby Scruffie » 06 Feb 2011, 06:07

ckyvick wrote:Did they say the pcbs were sold out? I dont know if they were planning on making another order of these...
Do you have a desoldering iron? They are available at radio shack for cheap(under 15$)
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To my knowledge, this was and is the only order of these boards, they were only this cheap due to a large order, all thanks to abfackeln :thumbsup

Those little plastic desolder bulbs don't seem all that great, I suggest a proper spring action pump and a good temperature to remove solder, should be easy with that.

If you want, i'll sort your board out for free (other than postage) PM me.
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Re: Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

Postby Duckman » 07 Feb 2011, 05:45

greenskull wrote:I give up, I can't get the IC's loose even with a desolder pump

When I'm in big troubles, I use desoldering braid embedded with extra rosin flux... maybe it works for you
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Re: Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

Postby greenskull » 07 Feb 2011, 21:39

Thanks everybody. I went ahead just ordered another board and will try again this time with sockets.
I'll try to get those I.C.'s desoldered later when I have more patience.... I may just end up using brute force and drilling 'em out as a final resort. Would be funny if the problem wasn't a blown chip... well, maybe not too funny!
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Re: Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

Postby Tonetweaker » 08 Feb 2011, 07:29

greenskull wrote:Thanks everybody. I went ahead just ordered another board and will try again this time with sockets.


Are there still boards available from the original buy? If so, I'd love to grab a couple...

Cheers...
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Re: Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

Postby greenskull » 12 Feb 2011, 04:47

Steve: I ordered one last week and received it, so probably so.

Hard to believe even with being super patient and methodical with my second attempt..... failure again!
I'm no newbie, so I'm pretty embarrassed about this.
A couple of questions before I blow my brains out:
What are the micro holes near R50 (top left corner) and between feedback pads 2/3 for?
Also has the manual pot with toggle switch mod been installed with success yet? I did it... maybe this is mucking it up each time?
I wanted to do away with the "color" switch and hardwired a jumper between sw1 pin3 pad and sw1 pin2 pad on the board for phase mode only. Is this right?
Didn't muck about with the booster section to simplify debugging... apparently hasn't helped, ha!
I did socket all chips this time and didn't have luck swapping things out.
Thanks for reading this.
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Re: Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

Postby Scruffie » 12 Feb 2011, 05:05

greenskull wrote:Steve: I ordered one last week and received it, so probably so.

Hard to believe even with being super patient and methodical with my second attempt..... failure again!
I'm no newbie, so I'm pretty embarrassed about this.
A couple of questions before I blow my brains out:
What are the micro holes near R50 (top left corner) and between feedback pads 2/3 for?
Also has the manual pot with toggle switch mod been installed with success yet? I did it... maybe this is mucking it up each time?
I wanted to do away with the "color" switch and hardwired a jumper between sw1 pin3 pad and sw1 pin2 pad on the board for phase mode only. Is this right?
Didn't muck about with the booster section to simplify debugging... apparently hasn't helped, ha!
I did socket all chips this time and didn't have luck swapping things out.
Thanks for reading this.

I'm pretty tired right now (4 in the Morning) but i'll do my best to answer.

The Micro Holes are Through Holes, you can ignore those, they just connect one side of the board to the other.

The Manual Pot has not been installed with success yet to my knowledge, it was added at the last second without testing... but it should still work with it regardless... I think.

Hardwiring the Colour switch is fine, it'd either Phase or Vibrato if you'd put it the wrong way.

It's not an easy build, so no need to be embarassed! Seems to be a case of it works first go or people are left scratching their heads.

It does not take substitutions well if you made any, the 324 should not be substituted for anything and the 4049 is the only other substituion really.

Hopefully you checked out your transistor Pin Out on this one... post full voltages and we'll see where we get.
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Re: Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

Postby Tonetweaker » 12 Feb 2011, 05:46

greenskull wrote:Steve: I ordered one last week and received it, so probably so.


Thanks for the heads-up, greenskull... I just ordered a couple. :thumbsup
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Re: Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

Postby azrael » 12 Feb 2011, 23:20

Scruffie wrote:
h8mtv wrote:Okay, so C5 and C17 are left empty. Where the heck is C2?

Right hand side, next to R2, Up & Left a bit from the Input.

And any luck yet Azrael?

Not yet, been really busy with school.
:(

So no one has implemented the Manual Control successfully? :(

Barcode wrote:Oh. My. God. I swear I checked that, but I must have been mistaken. Sure enough, flipped the transistor around and BOOM! Phasing all over the place. I did have some serious hum, but it must have been a cold solder joint because I went back over and remelted all the wiring connection solder joints and now the noise is gone. I still couldn't get the boost to work, but I don't think I'll need it. This thing sounds AMAZING.

Wait, if using a 2N5089, I need to flip it around??
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Re: Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

Postby Scruffie » 13 Feb 2011, 00:13

You have to check the Datasheet of your transistor as with any build and compare to the schematic, the silk screen cannot account for different brands.

If it's Fairchild, yes you need to switch it round.

And no the Manual Pot has not been tested to my knowledge.
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Re: Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

Postby B Tremblay » 13 Feb 2011, 02:54

Scruffie wrote:And no the Manual Pot has not been tested to my knowledge.


http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/i ... #msg744674
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Re: Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

Postby Scruffie » 13 Feb 2011, 03:00

B Tremblay wrote:
Scruffie wrote:And no the Manual Pot has not been tested to my knowledge.


http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/i ... #msg744674

Shit, that was a lie then, it was to my knowledge :slap:

I'd forgotten about going over that.

No it doesn't work, you have to cut a track, thanks Tremblay :thumbsup
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Re: Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

Postby greenskull » 13 Feb 2011, 05:11

Thanks Scruffie and Tremblay. I cut the trace and still no signal, so definitely a problem elsewhere on my build (2nd attempt).
I got the LFO transistor turned the right way and the parts subs are 4049UBE, 2n5089 (LFO) and 1uf tantalum for C13 instead of 1.5uf.
Also using TL072 for IC's 1- 4.
I did wire the pots differently than layout suggested, with feedback pad 3 omitted and just wired lugs 2 & 3 together at pot. Did the same with rate pot, since pad for lug 3 on pcb connected to nothing?

Measured the voltages... source power is 9.43 volts from "1 Spot".

IC's 1-4 (TL072's)

1- .264 8- .617
2- .264 7- .264
3- .264 6- .264
4- 0 5- .264

4049UBE

1- .616 16- .616
2- .616 15- .211
3- .616 14- .616
4- .264 13- .616
5- .526 12- .264
6- .264 11- .616
7- .616 10- .264
8- .264 9- .616

Really low power, even less than 1st attempt. I'm thinking there's a short somewhere or cold joint?
Thanks for trying to help me out, Scruffie!!
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Re: Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

Postby Scruffie » 13 Feb 2011, 05:26

Once again, tired at past 4 in the morning but...

You're alright with the pots, for future reference, there are some tracks inside the board you can't see as it's 4 layers (The Power & Ground are internal) but what you've done is fine.

4049UBE is Fine, 2N5089 should be fine aslong as you've checked the Datesheet for your Particular Brand of Transistor and checked it against what I said (If it's Fairchild, it should go backwards).

TL072s have been used with no problems and 1.5uF to 1uF is pretty negligible.

1Spot you say... It might not be the cause of all the problems but I know this power supply doesn't like some pedals, if you can i'd try a battery or other supply untill someone confirms it works with the one spot.

But those voltages are seriously low if you've put the decimal in the right place.

Your TL072s actually look right just hideously low, the 4049 is all over the place with voltage, try swapping that or checking around it for problems.

Reflow all the joints to help try and rule out cold or bad joints and check for shorts which may be present as you say.
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Re: Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

Postby greenskull » 14 Feb 2011, 04:48

Scruffie wrote:Once again, tired at past 4 in the morning but...

You're alright with the pots, for future reference, there are some tracks inside the board you can't see as it's 4 layers (The Power & Ground are internal) but what you've done is fine.

4049UBE is Fine, 2N5089 should be fine aslong as you've checked the Datesheet for your Particular Brand of Transistor and checked it against what I said (If it's Fairchild, it should go backwards).

TL072s have been used with no problems and 1.5uF to 1uF is pretty negligible.

1Spot you say... It might not be the cause of all the problems but I know this power supply doesn't like some pedals, if you can i'd try a battery or other supply untill someone confirms it works with the one spot.

But those voltages are seriously low if you've put the decimal in the right place.

Your TL072s actually look right just hideously low, the 4049 is all over the place with voltage, try swapping that or checking around it for problems.

Reflow all the joints to help try and rule out cold or bad joints and check for shorts which may be present as you say.


Sorry Scruffie for bothering ya at bedtime... looks like you keep the same late hours as me, but on the other side of the world.
Tried all of the above with no change. Seems really idiot proof, but I'm having bad luck with these multi-layer boards!
Will try a few more things....I've really got to get one of these builds working. Will drop back if I can fix in case it can help others.
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Re: Group buy of EH Bad Stone Phase Shift boards

Postby Duckman » 14 Feb 2011, 07:53

Hey greenskull!

Seems like nothing work there and it's a shame.
At some moment of the prototyping, silkscreen was not clear enough, so we work on it to get it more clearer, because stand up resistors tends to be a little confusing.
I'm not saying that's your case, but sometimes you got to recheck the obvious to find what's avoiding you.
As you can see in the image, as a rule of thumb, stand up resistors vertically oriented are vertically named in the silkscreen... same for the horizontal ones...
Maybe... (just maybe)... you got some bad oriented resistos causing problems :hmmm:(geez, my english is depressing)
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