EH - Clone Theory ( versions ) [schematic]

[pinkjimiphoton]

cool!! is brian makin' boards?

i gotta get me one of them!!

[jalmonsalmon]

If anyone is looking for a graphic for this one, I found this... Cloned Theory and the "D" can be removed if need be
Cannot wait to tackle this one!

[Scruffie]

If anyone is looking for a graphic for this one, I found this... Cloned Theory and the "D" can be removed if need be
Cannot wait to tackle this one!

Nice! Reminds me of this! *cough*

http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/inde ... ic=15656.0

[jalmonsalmon]

If anyone is looking for a graphic for this one, I found this... Cloned Theory and the "D" can be removed if need be
Cannot wait to tackle this one!

Nice! Reminds me of this! *cough*

http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/inde ... ic=15656.0

Yeah that is the one LOL
Waiting for a PCB for this one since the 1st run sold out instantly. Thanks for the heads up Scruffie about this fantastic version of the clone theory!

[pinkjimiphoton]

There were two versions, the early one from 1977 with SAD1024A and the 1980 version with MN3007.

They are similar but from a schematic viewpoint they are totally different - not only the BBD has been replaced, the complete circuit was reworked.

guts are always welcome, especially since I don´t trust the EH-1317 (SAD1024A) factory schematic.

analogguru

ummmmm.... i got my first one in 78, still have it, and it was the mn3007 version. the one with the edge switch came afterwards as an "improvement". the one with the edge switch doesn't sound anything at all like the original.

i got it in trade from my bud randy, who had gotten it brand new for christmas that year (a couple months prior) when he asked for a phase shifter. his parents got him the clone theory, thinking it was an "upgrade" apparently. i traded him my small stone for it in a heartbeat and we were both happy.

this is the only chorus i ever cared for. more of a vibe than a chorus. very deep and wobbly, more like a univibe. the later version with the SAD1024 sounded more like a modern chorus.

i'm sure someone will tell me "wrong" but... well, i live here less than 100 miles from NYC my whole life, and have owned almost every EH pedal that ever came out (back in the day, anyways) and the mn3007 clone theory absolutely predates the sad1024 variant by 3-4 years. i don't care what the lore of the internet says.

peace

[Scruffie]

Well... I do trust the schematic dates.

SAD model 10/27/77

MN3007 model 5/11/79

[pinkjimiphoton]

then how did i get one with the vib/flange switch in 78? it was just the beginning of the year when i got it, he got it for xmas 1977 a month or two before.
i was a junior in high school at the time, that was 77-78. i quit school in 79 to be a musician for a living, at the beginning of my senior year.
i DO know the unit was just recently released at the time... so.... beats me... maybe ask the eh guys?

[Scruffie]

Clearly, you were abducted by aliens and lost a year, explains everything.

The SAD1024 with Edge model DID come first, I don't think there's any question of that.

The earliest I can see any MN chip being used by EH was in May of 78, up until January in 78 they were still designing with the SAD1024 for everything, an EHX member did pop up on the EHX forum some time back and confirmed that once the MN chips were released their products were redesigned to use them as they were less noisy and more reliable which if you look at the products checks out.

It's a nearly 40 year old memory, man... (pun was not intended but i'm glad it worked out )

[theehman]

Clearly, you were abducted by aliens and lost a year, explains everything.

The SAD1024 with Edge model DID come first, I don't think there's any question of that.

The earliest I can see any MN chip being used by EH was in May of 78, up until January in 78 they were still designing with the SAD1024 for everything, an EHX member did pop up on the EHX forum some time back and confirmed that once the MN chips were released their products were redesigned to use them as they were less noisy and more reliable which if you look at the products checks out.

It's a nearly 40 year old memory, man... (pun was not intended but i'm glad it worked out )

From all my years of collecting EH, this was also my impression.

[pinkjimiphoton]

just a year? dude, it was the 70's so anything is possible. i'm probably wrong as usual.




we used to smoke a good lid of grass daily then, so.... don't even ask about the 80's

[pinkjimiphoton]

ron, maybe it was a real early one or something? my bud got it for christmas, i got it probably april-ish from him of 78. i was gonna ask ya on farcebook, glad ya chimed in.

was definitely 78. by 79 my friend had moved to like new zealand or something with his folks. he wasn't there (what would have been) my senior year

[mictester]

....Also - the SAD1024 was available from mid 1975 (as I recall) and we got the first samples of the MN-series BBDs in mid '78. This would suggest the SAD version would probably pre-date the MN version (though E-H were always a perverse company!).

I found some notes from those days which report the results we got with various MN-series ICs and the troubles we had (initially) preventing clock breakthrough and excessive noise. The biggest breakthrough with the MN3007 (my favourite one of the range) was that it could be clocked VERY fast (the specification sheet says "up to 1MHz), but we got good results with clocks at 2MHz (though you had to choose your chip). The really high rate, relatively big dynamic range and the surprisingly low noise (when run at -15V) meant that these could be pressed into service for all sorts of bizarre uses. One of the engineers in Kobe was forever tinkering with a 3007-based harmoniser (which never really worked too well), but the Flangers, Choruses and Vibratos we made with these ICs were fabulous. I made my first "through-zero" flangers with the 3007 to see what would happen, and we discovered that the effect was truly startling! We also made a "multi-chorus" which used several LFOs and a number of 3007s (as many as 7 in one prototype!) - once we got rid of the beating artefacts from the HF oscillators as they "went past" each other we had the best chorus I've ever heard. The only problem we really had was with the bean-counters (as usual) who insisted that we only use one MN-series IC in each effect as they were relatively expensive!

[theehman]

ron, maybe it was a real early one or something? my bud got it for christmas, i got it probably april-ish from him of 78. i was gonna ask ya on farcebook, glad ya chimed in.

was definitely 78. by 79 my friend had moved to like new zealand or something with his folks. he wasn't there (what would have been) my senior year

There was probably an overlapping period where both were on the market.

[pinkjimiphoton]

yeah, i've seen so many different ones.... the classic black on chrome, the red ones... and i've seen both styles with both chips. no doubt about the mn's being the better sounding chip. they "bend" the tone differently from the SAD ones. and the SAD ones were hissy as fuck... that was a "feature".... they called it "edge"

[Scruffie]

I don't think the sound of the SAD ones was the chip entirely (apart from some of the added noise) it would have been the circuit design, quite different despite almost being the same.

Has a longer delay time, lower filtering cut off (6500 vs 7500kHz) etc.

Also mictester, the MN3007 datasheet specs 100kHz as the Max frequency, not 1MHz.

[pinkjimiphoton]

yeah, they sound completely different... the sad doesn't "wobble" right, it just kinda dips the pitch a little. it's definitely brighter and noisier. the mn is much warmer, doesn't have that high end bite and the associated noise. and it wobbles up, then down sorta... tho a lot of that depends on how you have the trimmers set. you can come close to making it flange at some settings.

probably was "close enough" on the scope to merit being called the same thing maybe. the circuit for sure looks and sounds very different, but they both "chorus"... that was a big and kinda rare thing back then. weren't a lot of choruses around.

[mictester]

Also mictester, the MN3007 datasheet specs 100kHz as the Max frequency, not 1MHz.

Not according to the Panasonic datasheet I have here. Panasonic made the original MN-series ICs in their chip-fab in Kobe (the KME plant). We did RF phase-delay tricks for demodulating SSB using the MN3007!

[Scruffie]

Well i'd love to take a look at that copy of the datasheet then to see what differs if you can get a scan, i've got a Panasonic BBD 'manual' simply called Panasonic Bucket Brigade Devices and the datasheets from Panasonics division of Matsushita but both state the 100kHz limit.

I know that 100kHz limit can be pushed but i'm intrigued, does it still state a 700pF clock pin capacitance?

[deanodley]

Hi All - I have a 1980 Clone Theory with the MN3007 IC. However looking at the images posted in this thread I notice that I do not have the capacitors on the trace side of the circuit board as shown. However, there does appear to be capacitors between these points on the component side. Can someone shed some light on this - I thought maybe they were an after-market mod to reduce noise in the circuit - although the noise level in my version is not so bad...

Also, does anyone know an easy way to add a blinking rate LED to this version of the unit. There is a sweeping voltage present on pin 1 of the CD4047BE but it does not appear to vary enough to blink a LED (5-7v), even with the controls at full range.

Many thanks,
Dean

[Bernardduur]

Here's my unit

Marked EH1317B

Clone Theory.JPG