Univox - Superfuzz

OnTheTundra · Post by **OnTheTundra** » 02 Aug 2013, 01:33

I just built Derringer's layout and it sounds fantastic. I love the Tone pot vs the switch. This one's gettin on the board right behind my megalith clone.

Post by **digi2t** » 02 Aug 2013, 16:20

In case anyone is interested, I built one using a TPQ2222 quad array chip, and I tried various dual transistor packages for the octave section. Info is over at the other forum. Thread is «Finally got around to a Superfuzz».

I also have tried different dual trannies in a can models, like the 2N2223, with great results. I have veros published for the layout.

Just a different angle on this great circuit.

astrobass · Post by **astrobass** » 02 Aug 2013, 18:35

When you get transistor arrays, how's the matching between transistors? Is it usually exact or close or grab bag?

Post by **digi2t** » 02 Aug 2013, 22:25

astrobass wrote:When you get transistor arrays, how's the matching between transistors? Is it usually exact or close or grab bag?

Not exact, but very close. Usually within 10 to 12 points of each other at the most. With a TPQ2222, I measured the following gains (Peak meter);

Q1 - 198
Q2 - 210
Q3 - 204
Q4 - 201

The MPQ3904 comes within the same spread.

For the octave section, the following duallies work really well;
2N2223
2N2913 (I like this one!)
2SC3381GR

Like I said, I'm not reinventing the wheel here. It's just a different component take on the Superfuzz. Beautiful circuit. One of my favs.

astrobass · Post by **astrobass** » 03 Aug 2013, 14:28

Cool. I've seen arrays used before, but I think often as a space saving trick. Anyhow, that's pretty close, though I imagine some tuning with a trimmer would help. I had a bag of 50 2N2222A, so I just tested them one at a time until I found two that matched exactly for Q4/Q5 and didn't bother worrying about how close the others were (though I purposefully mismatched Q1/Q2 based on other posts in this thread).

Definitely agree that it's a great circuit and the 2N2222 sounds great in it. As a bonus it's also cheap and easy to find on ebay.

Nocentelli · Post by **Nocentelli** » 03 Aug 2013, 15:29

And it comes in a cool little metal can!

astrobass · Post by **astrobass** » 03 Aug 2013, 22:18

Nocentelli wrote:And it comes in a cool little metal can!

Not mine

I used 2N2222A, not 2N2222. It's pretty much the same thing. I can't imagine any of the differences that I'm aware of having a negative impact here.

mictester · Post by **mictester** » 04 Aug 2013, 21:49

astrobass wrote:Cool. I've seen arrays used before, but I think often as a space saving trick. Anyhow, that's pretty close, though I imagine some tuning with a trimmer would help. I had a bag of 50 2N2222A, so I just tested them one at a time until I found two that matched exactly for Q4/Q5 and didn't bother worrying about how close the others were (though I purposefully mismatched Q1/Q2 based on other posts in this thread).

Definitely agree that it's a great circuit and the 2N2222 sounds great in it. As a bonus it's also cheap and easy to find on ebay.

The biggest advantage is that the 2N2222 emulates the early silicon (low gain) transistors originally used. I used some PN2222s which all had Hfe figures of less than 80. I matched a pair (77 each) for the long-tailed pair, and got wonderful results. I added a resistor (2k2) between the germanium diodes and ground to raise the output level a little and soften the edges of their clipping somewhat. After two Vero prototypes, I got some PCBs etched and built a batch of 10. I've kept one for myself, and all the others sold in three days!

fuzznaut · Post by **fuzznaut** » 06 Sep 2013, 05:37

hello all, I was gettin ready to do the vero layout by derringer and was wondrin' if anyone could clear up a few things? 1.) on C3, Im assuming it says "socket" so one can try out different values, but is there a range to start with? 1000pf? 20pf? 2.) on C15, it says "SOCK", does that mean one would do the same as C3 or if it is supposed to the posted 390pf, what does the "~sock" mean? 3.) Ive never seen a vero layout with two seperate 9v & ground strips, can they be jumpered, or do they need to go to the power supply seperately? Ive been eyeballing this layout forever, but am a bit nervous to get started without knowing the few things mentioned above. Any help is greatly appreciated, I finally have all the parts to build it up. Thanks!

derringer · Post by **derringer** » 06 Sep 2013, 21:04

OnTheTundra wrote:I just built Derringer's layout and it sounds fantastic. I love the Tone pot vs the switch. This one's gettin on the board right behind my megalith clone.

thanks OtT! Glad to hear someone else is getting some mileage out that layout! I still love mine and use it all the time.

fuzznaut wrote:hello all, I was gettin ready to do the vero layout by derringer and was wondrin' if anyone could clear up a few things? 1.) on C3, Im assuming it says "socket" so one can try out different values, but is there a range to start with? 1000pf? 20pf? 2.) on C15, it says "SOCK", does that mean one would do the same as C3 or if it is supposed to the posted 390pf, what does the "~sock" mean? 3.) Ive never seen a vero layout with two seperate 9v & ground strips, can they be jumpered, or do they need to go to the power supply seperately? Ive been eyeballing this layout forever, but am a bit nervous to get started without knowing the few things mentioned above. Any help is greatly appreciated, I finally have all the parts to build it up. Thanks!

"Sock" and "Socket" as I wrote them just mean the same thing ... as in put in a socket and try different values.
And no, the values between C3 and C15 do not need to be matched.
Yes, you can jumper the GND strips to each other and jumper the 9V strips to each other. Designing it that way made it easier for me to make the vero and also gave options of where to run the main V+ and GND wires with respect to how your box is designed.

I never ended up using a cap in that C3 position. In retrospect, I don't think it's necessary because I believe that the circuit formed around those first two transistors is a big low-pass filter anyway. But, it doesn't hurt to try and may make the octave even more pronounced. I'd try something like 470 pf first and see if there's any beneficial difference in tone and then go from there. I definitely use the 390pf cap in C15 to rein in the highs of the circuit's output. It's really subjective. You may like the highs dulled like I do or you may prefer all that ragging goodness to fly out of the circuit completely untamed.

fuzznaut · Post by **fuzznaut** » 07 Sep 2013, 02:15

Hecksyes!!!! thanks sooo much Derringer! Sweet timing. just finished cutting my 24x17 piece or vero when I saw yer reply. I figured they both meant socket, I was just being sure. And I dig having the choice of rails, thats gonna come in handy when I go to box it Im sure....I am trying to get as close as i can to a BOSS FZ-2 (there isn't a vero layout for it anywhere unfortunately) but was told that yer layout of the superfuzz can get perty close. Need that 'electric wizard' doom fuzz. I built a different Uni SFz layout from tagboardeffects.com (super awesome site by the way, for numerous reasons) and it sounds good, but it doesnt have the trimmers in the layout, and I think I mite need them because it sounds like clean guitar mixed with fuzz in the background. Ive fiddled w/the transistors (2n2222's) & Hfe's for an entire day (not sure what "longtailed" means, but Ive matched Q4/Q5 at around 200 Hfe and have around 250 Hfe in Q1), but the super part of the fuzz isn't quite there. Ive tried putting '3904's in the Q1/Q2 slots as well as 5088's, but ended up back at the 2n2222's. Figured cuz Im a novice, I just need to build like 8 of these suckers & pick the best one. At least I have alotta 10u caps on hand, haha. Anyways, thanks a bunch for the reply man, as well as the layout. Ive seen a few people now that say its really really good. And if you think of anything that'l steer me towards it sounding more FuMchu-ish or ElecWiz-ish, please let me know. I can't say thnks enuf man...L8R

derringer · Post by **derringer** » 07 Sep 2013, 15:03

I just ended up putting 5088's or 5089's in mine. I did match the octave pair pretty well so the trim there stayed pretty much in the middle.

The SF by itself should do the Fu-Manchu thing for you.
And if you want to get real specific, check what Brad has to say about that particular superfuzz

Solidhex
I've got my bandmates Orange/Blue era Univox Superfuzz pedal. It's a really good sounding one. Very rich, has a great tightness to it while still having lots of lows. Figured I'd post its transistor voltages in case it could help anyone. I've found when I've cloned Superfuzzes they come out sounding way too squishy/overcompressed. I usually check the voltages and twiddle resistors around certain transistors to get it operating more like this one and it always helps. The low end will come into focus and the fuzz becomes more dynamic.

Battery voltage 9 volts dead on...
C B E
Q1 6.01 .66 .117
Q2 8.88 6.01 5.41
Q3 6.23 3.27 2.72
Q4 3.1 1.7 1.11
Q5 3.1 1.67 1.11
Q6 5.75 .98 .361

Rock out, Brad

Otherwise, and I'm speaking from experience here, to get really doomy sounding, build (or mod) a big muff with a clean blend. Then run this superfuzz in front of the 50 - 50 blended muff.

fuzznaut · Post by **fuzznaut** » 07 Sep 2013, 19:01

Daaang....the big muff w/clean blend into the SF, holy cow, that clearly spells out the destruction I'm after. I know what I'll be building up when I'm finished with yer SF layout

Obviously its not yer 1st sludge bar-b-q...haha. Ive read that post of brads and some others with voltage readings, but I'm just learning to read schematics and still don't know how to "tweak resistors" and that sorta stuff YET

. Ive just sorted out how to get those voltage readings actually. Thats why I started on your layout since I thot the trimpots mite accomplish something similar. The awesome doods over at tagboardeffects got me keen on the "long tailed" pair (I'm assuming thats the octave pair?). I was trying to match Q4/Q5 instead of 1 & 4. The one I built sounds like a clean tone with the sweet fuzz faintly in the background (when on the scooped setting). I havent had a chance to try it with those matching yet tho, (Ive just been working on populating the board for your layout&studyin up on resistor tweaking/general schematics). I'm hoping that matching Q1 & Q4 will bring the level of the fuzz up a lil more? At least until I learn a bit more about tweaking those resistors. Sorry for all the scatter-brained questions, I'm just really excited to finally be within reach of a tone Ive been after for some time now. Thanks again too man, your help has been doomtastic to say the least

fuzznaut · Post by **fuzznaut** » 07 Sep 2013, 19:49

oops, I see you meant the other way around on the BM/SF chain...I already have a stock little big muff (the more recent 1590BB box unit). I'm assuming it'd probably be easier (and sound better) to build a BM with clean blend than to try and mod my existing LBM for clean blend. I'm gonna go on the hunt for a vero layout of it when I get a chance...thanks again man!

cdeschenes · Post by **cdeschenes** » 07 Sep 2013, 23:31

derringer wrote: Otherwise, and I'm speaking from experience here, to get really doomy sounding, build (or mod) a big muff with a clean blend. Then run this superfuzz in front of the 50 - 50 blended muff.

Like the Devi Ever Silver Rose? Its a OpAmp v4 BMP & SuperFuzz with a blend and a fuzz mix to blend between the 2.

derringer · Post by **derringer** » 07 Sep 2013, 23:53

that's the first I've heard of the silver rose
but I suppose we both stole that shit from Mudhoney

and for the sake of clarity I'm running guitar > SF > blended BM > amp

fuzznaut · Post by **fuzznaut** » 08 Sep 2013, 05:18

oh snikes! it was like a lil lite bulb going on over my head when you said MH...i remembered theres an actual short album called bigmuff superfuzz (or wait, its the other way around again isnt it?) inhaled too many solder fumes today...gonna hafta change from stoner rock to solder rock

Nocentelli · Post by **Nocentelli** » 08 Sep 2013, 08:12

cdeschenes wrote:Like the Devi Ever Silver Rose? Its a OpAmp v4 BMP & SuperFuzz with a blend and a fuzz mix to blend between the 2.

I think the Silver Rose has the two circuits in parallel, not series.

derringer · Post by **derringer** » 08 Sep 2013, 14:03

Nocentelli wrote:
cdeschenes wrote:Like the Devi Ever Silver Rose? Its a OpAmp v4 BMP & SuperFuzz with a blend and a fuzz mix to blend between the 2.
I think the Silver Rose has the two circuits in parallel, not series.

yeah, according to what I found with a quick search yesterday, the SR has them in parallel
I have a blender pedal .. should try that sometime as the SR clips on youtube sounded pretty good

fuzznaut wrote:oh snikes! it was like a lil lite bulb going on over my head when you said MH...i remembered theres an actual short album called bigmuff superfuzz (or wait, its the other way around again isnt it?) inhaled too many solder fumes today...gonna hafta change from stoner rock to solder rock

yup, Superfuzz Bigmuff. It was their first EP I think?
So you've made some more progress? Cool! Keep us posted how it turns out.

fuzznaut · Post by **fuzznaut** » 09 Sep 2013, 21:57

yea, so a lil update: (disclaimer: I don't have any problems with anger and I'm not crazy, but being a total noob, I got frustrated for sure) ...Anyways, I screwed up. again&again. kept fixin it and chasin it. it got to be more&more of a "rig". got to the point of starting over. had to teach it a lesson 1st. in the vice. went for the deathblow with the hammer "office space" style. 10u electro flew out and nailed me square on the chin. it was drinkin time. appx 37 beers and a day later, I'm on version 2.0

I almost have the board filled again, everythings going much better this time around...but because of my lil hissy fit, Im runnin low on a few things. The only .1u caps I have now are tantalum (and polarized). I'm pretty sure I can sub the tantalum for the poly without issue (right?), but which way does the anode/cathode go? Not sure if you're around today derringer, but It's #C4 in the bottom left of yer layout. As always, the help is very much appreciated from everyone. thanks!

Univox - Superfuzz [schematic]