Sola Sound - Tone Bender Mark I (1965) [schematic]
- agoldoor
- Breadboard Brother
I never had a Pigdog, but I have a Jerms MKI that I cherish... I've built a couple MKIs myself, and it's hard to make an MKI using those traditional methods with part selection that makes them sound exactly right. The Jerms is as raucous and raw as an MKI can be without completely being a noisy useless misbiased hunk of metal. He really pushes it right to the edge but no further... it's a keeper for sure. From the description of the DAM, I think they will both cover different bases... and will be handed down to my grandkids one day
Also, from my experience, the OC82DM is a really really great transistor. I have a couple handfuls of them in my stash, and they are just very reliable, good specs, and make for a really full range fuzz.
Also, from my experience, the OC82DM is a really really great transistor. I have a couple handfuls of them in my stash, and they are just very reliable, good specs, and make for a really full range fuzz.
- LucifersTrip
- Resistor Ronker
Information
- Posts: 413
- Joined: 06 Aug 2010, 10:39
- my favorite amplifier: Companion Psychedelic Machine
- Completed builds: Mosrite Fuzzrite (Si), Mosrite Fuzzrite (Ge)[2], Get Lo-Fi Fuzz, Fuzz Face (Ge) [2], Fuzz Face (Si) [3], Mos-Face, Vox Tone Bender, Kay Tremolo, Os Mutantes Fuzz [2], Psychedelic Fuzz, Smokey Amp, Sunn Buzz, Jen Fuzz, Fancy Fuzzbox, Muff Fuzz (op amp) [2], Buzz Box, Fuzz King, Rangemaster [5], Maestro FZ - 2/3, Ruby Amp, Orpheum Fuzz (Ge) [4], Great Destroyer, Schizo, Carlsbro Suzz, Shin-Ei Companion Fuzz (si), DOD 250 Gray [2], Super Dirt Fuzz, Fuzz Factory, Jordan Boss Tone, Sam Ash Fuzzz Boxx, Heathkit TA-28 Fuzz, Olson New Sound Fuzz, LRE Fuzz Sound, Green Ringer, Vox Super Beatle (Ge), Colorsound One Knob (Ge), Demon Buzzz [2], Demon Wasp v1, Demon Wasp v2, Super Hard-On, Bazz Fuss, Burns Buzzaround [2], Selmer Buzztone, Shin-Ei Companion Fuzz (Ge), Fuzz Face/FY-2 (Ge), Zonk Machine, Univox Squarewave, Demon Fuzzz, Mosrite Fuzzrite BG-500/1000 (Ge), Univox Superfuzz, Marshall Supa Fuzz, Demon Monster, AA Overdrive/ Retro Fuzz, Tone Bender MKII, Psychtar, Jordan Vica Vibe, etc...
- Has thanked: 19 times
- Been thanked: 71 times
- Contact:
great...I'd be really curious to know Q2C voltage when attack is maxed.agoldoor wrote:FYI: I have one of these coming my way... I finally will own a DAM! I'll answer any questions if you still are unclear on any values...
- beedotman
- Diode Debunker
Information
Same story here dude... I had three Loonys, Electric Eye and Jerms MKI and I miss them A LOT!Taller76 wrote:I had a Jerms MKI and a Pigdog Electric Eye....sold them both....HUGE mistake.
Anyway... I still have Mr. Morphine MKI which kicked ass few other MKI easily. A M A Z I N G sounding dirt box!
Angry, bright, noisless MKI. Here's few pic of this beauty - sexy big Piher resistors and mustard caps. Thrid knob is output filter, great feature for MKI circuit
Highly recommended for everyone who wants awesome and beautiful MKI!
http://www.turretboard.org 4 life!
- agoldoor
- Breadboard Brother
Beedotman! Trace that shit! I want to see a vero or tagboard/turretboard version of your Mr. Morphine!!! (specifically curious as to how he biases it -- any resistor changes), and also, what the exact values of his filter circuit are!
Stock Mk-I circuit. Tone controll is a 100K lin pot that blends in a 22uf in parallel with the 10nf output cap.
Biassing consists of about 10 hours of transistor swapping and a box of OC75's
Biassing consists of about 10 hours of transistor swapping and a box of OC75's
- jrod
- Resistor Ronker
Beedotman, any way you could measure the voltages on your Mr. Morphine?
I breadboarded this circuit over the weekend and I'm confused about what the voltages are supposed to be.
It would be nice to get a collection of voltages from some good sounding units!
I breadboarded this circuit over the weekend and I'm confused about what the voltages are supposed to be.
It would be nice to get a collection of voltages from some good sounding units!
- beedotman
- Diode Debunker
Information
Done already here:jrod wrote:Beedotman, any way you could measure the voltages on your Mr. Morphine?
I breadboarded this circuit over the weekend and I'm confused about what the voltages are supposed to be.
It would be nice to get a collection of voltages from some good sounding units!
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19594
Attack position..7.....9.....12....3.....5
Q1C...............9,17 9,17 9,17 9,17 9,17
Q1B...............1,04 1,04 1,04 1,04 1,04
Q1E...............1,31 1,31 1,31 1,31 1,31
Q2C...............8,10 2,96 1,54 1,27 1,23
Q2B...............0,09 0,14 0,16 0,16 0,16
Q2E...............0,00 0,00 0,00 0,00 0,00
Q3C...............8,66 8,59 8,58 8,58 8,58
Q3B...............0,03 0,03 0,03 0,03 0,03
Q3E...............0,00 0,00 0,00 0,00 0,00
http://www.turretboard.org 4 life!
- LucifersTrip
- Resistor Ronker
Information
- Posts: 413
- Joined: 06 Aug 2010, 10:39
- my favorite amplifier: Companion Psychedelic Machine
- Completed builds: Mosrite Fuzzrite (Si), Mosrite Fuzzrite (Ge)[2], Get Lo-Fi Fuzz, Fuzz Face (Ge) [2], Fuzz Face (Si) [3], Mos-Face, Vox Tone Bender, Kay Tremolo, Os Mutantes Fuzz [2], Psychedelic Fuzz, Smokey Amp, Sunn Buzz, Jen Fuzz, Fancy Fuzzbox, Muff Fuzz (op amp) [2], Buzz Box, Fuzz King, Rangemaster [5], Maestro FZ - 2/3, Ruby Amp, Orpheum Fuzz (Ge) [4], Great Destroyer, Schizo, Carlsbro Suzz, Shin-Ei Companion Fuzz (si), DOD 250 Gray [2], Super Dirt Fuzz, Fuzz Factory, Jordan Boss Tone, Sam Ash Fuzzz Boxx, Heathkit TA-28 Fuzz, Olson New Sound Fuzz, LRE Fuzz Sound, Green Ringer, Vox Super Beatle (Ge), Colorsound One Knob (Ge), Demon Buzzz [2], Demon Wasp v1, Demon Wasp v2, Super Hard-On, Bazz Fuss, Burns Buzzaround [2], Selmer Buzztone, Shin-Ei Companion Fuzz (Ge), Fuzz Face/FY-2 (Ge), Zonk Machine, Univox Squarewave, Demon Fuzzz, Mosrite Fuzzrite BG-500/1000 (Ge), Univox Superfuzz, Marshall Supa Fuzz, Demon Monster, AA Overdrive/ Retro Fuzz, Tone Bender MKII, Psychtar, Jordan Vica Vibe, etc...
- Has thanked: 19 times
- Been thanked: 71 times
- Contact:
See, I think this is what screws alot of people up....and changes the nature of the attack, compression & gating.beedotman wrote:
[Stock circuit with 180K bias on Q2B]
Attack position..7.....9.....12....3.....5
Q2C...............8,10 2,96 1,54 1,27 1,23
With a 470K on Q2, you'll usually wind up much closer to 4 - 5V at 5 O 'clock.
As is common, you should get a "hot" sound around 1/2 the supply voltage and "weaker" when you're closer to the rails.
So, in the case above, you'll probably get some nice attack already at 8 - 9 O 'clock. As the voltage drops lower, below 4 - 5V, the sound gets thinner and more compressed, and then will start gating ~ 1V and lower, then cut off if too low.
So, do you want an attack sweep with a 470K, from low (a little below 9V) to "hot" around 4 - 5V, or do you want a sweep closer to the above example?
And of course, it's how much leakage you have in Q2 that sets that sweep. The higher leakage, the lower Q2C voltage starts at.
- jrod
- Resistor Ronker
Hey LT, I honestly can't tell much of a difference in the sweep on the Attack with 180K or 470K. What I get either way is a quick jump from lighter fuzz to full on fuzz with just a small turn of the Attack knob. I am expecting more of a gradual variation in tone. Also, it doesn't seem to matter how much leakage or gain or what type of transistor I use (regarding the sweep range). The sweep is pretty much the same. The only difference is the amount of gating I can get with the Attack knob. My voltages are around 5 - 5.5V full attack.
Also, on the breadboard this circuit is noisy as hell. Note decay is like frying bacon and!
Also, on the breadboard this circuit is noisy as hell. Note decay is like frying bacon and!
- LucifersTrip
- Resistor Ronker
Information
- Posts: 413
- Joined: 06 Aug 2010, 10:39
- my favorite amplifier: Companion Psychedelic Machine
- Completed builds: Mosrite Fuzzrite (Si), Mosrite Fuzzrite (Ge)[2], Get Lo-Fi Fuzz, Fuzz Face (Ge) [2], Fuzz Face (Si) [3], Mos-Face, Vox Tone Bender, Kay Tremolo, Os Mutantes Fuzz [2], Psychedelic Fuzz, Smokey Amp, Sunn Buzz, Jen Fuzz, Fancy Fuzzbox, Muff Fuzz (op amp) [2], Buzz Box, Fuzz King, Rangemaster [5], Maestro FZ - 2/3, Ruby Amp, Orpheum Fuzz (Ge) [4], Great Destroyer, Schizo, Carlsbro Suzz, Shin-Ei Companion Fuzz (si), DOD 250 Gray [2], Super Dirt Fuzz, Fuzz Factory, Jordan Boss Tone, Sam Ash Fuzzz Boxx, Heathkit TA-28 Fuzz, Olson New Sound Fuzz, LRE Fuzz Sound, Green Ringer, Vox Super Beatle (Ge), Colorsound One Knob (Ge), Demon Buzzz [2], Demon Wasp v1, Demon Wasp v2, Super Hard-On, Bazz Fuss, Burns Buzzaround [2], Selmer Buzztone, Shin-Ei Companion Fuzz (Ge), Fuzz Face/FY-2 (Ge), Zonk Machine, Univox Squarewave, Demon Fuzzz, Mosrite Fuzzrite BG-500/1000 (Ge), Univox Superfuzz, Marshall Supa Fuzz, Demon Monster, AA Overdrive/ Retro Fuzz, Tone Bender MKII, Psychtar, Jordan Vica Vibe, etc...
- Has thanked: 19 times
- Been thanked: 71 times
- Contact:
right, I think most of the fuzz will be in the first 25% or so. you can see that in the voltages posted above. then, a slow increase to your max....jrod wrote:Hey LT, I honestly can't tell much of a difference in the sweep on the Attack with 180K or 470K. What I get either way is a quick jump from lighter fuzz to full on fuzz with just a small turn of the Attack knob.
so the sweep is similar with 470K or 180K, but you should be able to hear a difference at the beginning and end of that sweep (low & max)
with the 470K, the min will not be as hot as a 180K (since the voltage will be close to 9V) and the 180K will giver a thinner, more compressed tone at max...That's if you don't alter the pot, which I usually do. My preference is usually to have max fuzz in the 4-5V range and min closer to 9V than the above 8.10V, so I simply adjust the fuzz (attack) pot accordingly. For instance, looking at the voltages above, you probably only need a 7 - 10K pot to go from 8.10V to 5V.
Also, I like the min to be closer to 9V, which also gives you more sweep on the lower range, of course. To do that, simply reduce the 1.8K limiter or choose Q2 with less leakage.
Did you try reducing the hfe of Q1 or increasing the voltage of Q3C?Also, on the breadboard this circuit is noisy as hell. Note decay is like frying bacon and!
- jrod
- Resistor Ronker
Thanks for the info regarding the Attack function, LT. I'll experiment more resistors and voltages.
I have not tried this, but I will!LucifersTrip wrote:Did you try reducing the hfe of Q1 or increasing the voltage of Q3C?
Regarding transistor kits - I took the plunge and bought an OC75 MKI set from Smallbear recently for my MKI that I've been trying forever to bias properly. I don't know for sure, but it seems that these are only being selected with the hfe in mind, not the leakage. On the supplied schematic, they list gain ranges for Q1-Q3, which are 60-70, 70-80, and 110-140, respectively (I don't know where they got those values). While these transistors make for a good MKII set, they don't work at all in my MKI, even after thoroughly adjusting the bias. In addition to that, I tried it in a total of four MKI and Zonk-variations, but to no avail.
Fortunately, I had some OC75s lying around which, as a result of swapping them around for an afternoon, sound just perfect (I settled for a FZ-676 clone in the end, easily the best sounding fuzz that I built ) I went through a lot of Tungsram AC128 too, but they didn't work as well as the OC75.
So for anyone hoping to be able to buy a drop-in transistor set for a MKI: From my experience, this is not it.
Fortunately, I had some OC75s lying around which, as a result of swapping them around for an afternoon, sound just perfect (I settled for a FZ-676 clone in the end, easily the best sounding fuzz that I built ) I went through a lot of Tungsram AC128 too, but they didn't work as well as the OC75.
So for anyone hoping to be able to buy a drop-in transistor set for a MKI: From my experience, this is not it.
- beedotman
- Diode Debunker
Information
Sounds nice!fuzzymuff wrote:I built a Tone Bender MK1. I don't have an actual Sola Sounds TB MK1 to use as reference, but I made a demo. Did it come close?
http://www.turretboard.org 4 life!
- jalmonsalmon
- Solder Soldier
Sounds great!fuzzymuff wrote:I built a Tone Bender MK1. I don't have an actual Sola Sounds TB MK1 to use as reference, but I made a demo. Did it come close?
Tone Bender MK1 is the only one I have not made yet so that is next on my list
They call me the working man...I guess that's what I am.fuzzymuff wrote:I built a Tone Bender MK1. I don't have an actual Sola Sounds TB MK1 to use as reference, but I made a demo. Did it come close?
Heavy dude...right on, man.
Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute.
- sickman82
- Breadboard Brother
Information
- Posts: 98
- Joined: 16 Jun 2011, 18:12
- my favorite amplifier: Vox AC30
- Completed builds: BYOC OD2, Lovepedal COT 50, Lovepedal Kalamazoo, Zvex Fuzz Factory, Zvex Wooly Mammoth, D*A*M Meathead, EHX Green Muff, EHX IC Muff, Gary Hurst Tone Bender MKI, Fuzz Face (Ge & Si), Catalinbread DLS MKI, Black Arts Pharaoh
- Location: Yorkshire, UK
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 3 times
This circuit is like the holy grail, or a right of passage. I'm glad the thread is still active. I recently opened mine back up for more experimenting after last year's attempts. With the help of Dr Nomis last November, I got it to behave.. in other words, the bacon thing was no more. I put a small resistor on the emitter of Q3. It seemed to tame the gain a bit too much as a result though, in hindsight it doesn't sound all that great. More like an overdrive.
This time round, I decided to pull the trim pots and use stock 8k2 resistors instead.. then begin to audition transistors. So far, so good. It still has the sizzle, but far less than my first attempt and only in the decay as opposed to constant. Certain transistors are worse than others. The sizzle seems to originate at Q1, and then I assume the remaining 2 stages amplify it. I am going to use an audio probe to try get rid of the sizzle by auditioning transistors. I'll post voltages as I go. Q1 voltage is too high at the moment, the emitter is sitting around -4v, base at about -2.7v. Q3 collector is around -7.5v. But Q2 is way off.. starting at around -6v at 7 o'clock and by 8-9 o'clock it's at -0.12v. This is evident in the sweep of the pot as well, between 7-8 o'clock it's really noisy (loadsa bacon) but not gated at all.. then after that it is just a gated fuzz with a slight sizzle decay, the pot makes no difference in tone past 8-9 o'clock. I'll do some more investigating and see what I find.
This time round, I decided to pull the trim pots and use stock 8k2 resistors instead.. then begin to audition transistors. So far, so good. It still has the sizzle, but far less than my first attempt and only in the decay as opposed to constant. Certain transistors are worse than others. The sizzle seems to originate at Q1, and then I assume the remaining 2 stages amplify it. I am going to use an audio probe to try get rid of the sizzle by auditioning transistors. I'll post voltages as I go. Q1 voltage is too high at the moment, the emitter is sitting around -4v, base at about -2.7v. Q3 collector is around -7.5v. But Q2 is way off.. starting at around -6v at 7 o'clock and by 8-9 o'clock it's at -0.12v. This is evident in the sweep of the pot as well, between 7-8 o'clock it's really noisy (loadsa bacon) but not gated at all.. then after that it is just a gated fuzz with a slight sizzle decay, the pot makes no difference in tone past 8-9 o'clock. I'll do some more investigating and see what I find.
“Birds scream at the top of their lungs in a horrified hellish rage every morning at daybreak to warn us all of the truth, but sadly we don't speak bird.”
- sickman82
- Breadboard Brother
Information
- Posts: 98
- Joined: 16 Jun 2011, 18:12
- my favorite amplifier: Vox AC30
- Completed builds: BYOC OD2, Lovepedal COT 50, Lovepedal Kalamazoo, Zvex Fuzz Factory, Zvex Wooly Mammoth, D*A*M Meathead, EHX Green Muff, EHX IC Muff, Gary Hurst Tone Bender MKI, Fuzz Face (Ge & Si), Catalinbread DLS MKI, Black Arts Pharaoh
- Location: Yorkshire, UK
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 3 times
Thanks Lowbrow, I'll give it a try. I plan on plugging in most of my transistors tomorrow morning, should be fun since I have around 500 lying around!
“Birds scream at the top of their lungs in a horrified hellish rage every morning at daybreak to warn us all of the truth, but sadly we don't speak bird.”