Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)  [schematic]

Discussion regarding early stompbox technology: 1960-1975 Please keep discussion focused and contribute what info you have...

Re: Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)

Postby Fastnet » 15 Jul 2010, 07:23

Dan N wrote:
Fastnet wrote: Am I correct in you saying "move Lug2 to C24?".


There is no C24.



Sorry, what I ment to say.... "C24" was the grid reference on the vero :lol:
Regarding the 500k pot.... will a standard 100k wah pot be a "drop in" replacement requireing no further amendments on the board?

Scruffie wrote:Has anyone actually compared my layout to the schematic because I certainly haven't, could be completely wrong! :mrgreen:

It was mererly an attempt at one... don't think I have time to check it or certainly build it.


Not a problem Scruffie, I've always enjoyed the builds no matter the frustrations... Dan's completely correct in saying "it was a nice thing to do" and I'd be first in line to second that. :hug:

Dan N wrote:LEDs need a current limiting resistor or the full charge of your battery can kill them. Attach at least a 1K resistor to one leg of the LED and you'll be good.


An incidental Q... Are the "Superbright" variety just capable of withstanding a greater current or purely more efficient?

analogguru wrote:
RnFR wrote:
Fastnet wrote:I wanted to post some pics but can't work out how to shrink them for the memory size.. Anyone?


you can do that at an image hosting site like photobucket. just upload the image, then you can manipulate it however you like, and then save it again. or just link to the photobucket address.

You don´t need photobucket for this. Download the freeware program XnView:

http://www.xnview.com/

and you can cut away the unnecessary surrounding area, convert the pixel/inch, change colors, and convert from one format to another with a mouse click.

analogguru


Just the ticket! :applause:

Thanks Gents, I'll report back with the pics and results.

Regards,
J.
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or...
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Re: Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)

Postby Fastnet » 16 Jul 2010, 00:21

Hello everyone.... Not good news I'm afraid...
Neither the track cut between C1 and R3 or lug2 moving before and inline with the output produced any effect...
I tested the cut for continuity and although it looks dodgy it's ok.
Managed the pics though... I put the diodes in heatshrink with long legs so I could swap them out easily with the other germanium and the silicon I bought as a trial...

Any ideas where I've gone wrong?

Regards
J.
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Re: Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)

Postby Dan N » 16 Jul 2010, 03:04

I applaud your effort. It's really mind blowing.

Looking at a vero layout, most of us see it as a view from the top with the copper and cuts underneath.

Doing it your way should work, but your transistors need to be flipped.

Now I need a drink.
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Re: Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)

Postby Fastnet » 16 Jul 2010, 07:53

[smilie=eek2.gif] [smilie=lol_xtreme.gif] [smilie=new_tomato.gif] [smilie=pope.gif] [smilie=rlp_smilie_003.gif]

Oh for F***'s sake I'm a stupid **** sometimes.....

Pulling it apart now....
:slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap:
Ps. We need a new smilie....
A Black Hole To Disappear Into
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Re: Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)

Postby Dan N » 16 Jul 2010, 18:30

Don't worry about it, man. You saw the parts and made the needed connections. You just did it differently. You actually made it harder on yourself and had to put more thought into the act of loading parts. Don't feel bad, feel unique!

On a circuit with IC's, you'd probably be fucked. You would have to pull the chips and solder them to the trace side. With transistors, all you need to do is rotate them 180 degrees and you're good.

Another concern is the polarity of the electros. It looks like you got them right. :wink:
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Re: Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)

Postby Scruffie » 16 Jul 2010, 18:58

Yeah that was an impressive build :applause:

Atleast once it's back the right way though it'll be easier to debug, I tried to compare a mirrored version of the layout to the board and it melted my head.
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Re: Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)

Postby Fastnet » 16 Jul 2010, 23:30

Hello fellas... I'm still here...
Spent the morning cursing myself at regular intervals whilst doing the necessary again...and here we go...
Pics of the new board which is now layed out as per prescription!
Please have a good look and then point me to the solution of getting the thing to make a noise!
Yes you guessed it... Silence...
I've checked the data sheet for the 2n3904's and they are true to the layout.
Before I warm up the iron I thought I'd check in for another dose of good advice...
Honestly, you must have been smirking for most of the day.... I WOULD HAVE!!!

But going with the premise, you don't really learn without mistakes being made.....
:horsey: :horsey: :horsey: :horsey: :horsey: :horsey: :horsey: :horsey: :horsey:

Regards,
J.
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Re: Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)

Postby Scruffie » 16 Jul 2010, 23:38

I've marked a few questionable areas on this image... a few look like the tracks might have been accidently jumpered and some look cold and could do with re-flowing.

Try running a stanley blade inbetween the 2 tracks to clear any stray shorts... and in the picture with the circuit in the wah shell, you're not testing it loose with the solder touching the enclosure are you or it's just gunna short.
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Re: Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)

Postby Fastnet » 16 Jul 2010, 23:48

Hi Scruffie,
Thanks for getting back...
Had a look at your edit and I'll check them over tomorrow morning.... I'm a newsagent so I start early and finish mid afternoon, hence my head is telling me to sleep even though my heart says start debugging...!
As for testing, the board is in a plastic bag. Took it off for the photoshoot!

Cheers for all your help and kind words, have a chuckle on me!
J.
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Re: Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)

Postby Fastnet » 19 Jul 2010, 16:55

Scruffie wrote:I've marked a few questionable areas on this image... a few look like the tracks might have been accidently jumpered and some look cold and could do with re-flowing.

Try running a stanley blade inbetween the 2 tracks to clear any stray shorts... and in the picture with the circuit in the wah shell, you're not testing it loose with the solder touching the enclosure are you or it's just gunna short.


Hi, thanks for the edits on the photo, very useful indeed. I had one bridged track four tracks down, first from left and a cold joint six tracks down and left. Tested again and still quiet... This morning I reflowed all the tags, scraped through the strips and checked for bridges and cold solder with the meter... All good. Will test it later tonight and post results...

Cheers,
J.
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Re: Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)

Postby Fastnet » 20 Jul 2010, 23:34

Evening Gents,

I put a 100k resistor between tags 1 and 3 to shorten the range of the pot. As Dan previously mentioned the original pedal didn't use most of the range so I thought this would be a good temporary measure for testing, max resistance now around 78k ish... still on the hunt for non boutique priced 200k was pot if there is such a thing.
I may just plump for a 100k Dunlop replacement or do you have any recommendations... :hmmm:
No joy....so I disconnected the pot to see if that was the problem... Still quiet....
Any ideas? :scratch:
New pic of the re-flowed board....

Cheers all,
J.
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Re: Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)

Postby Fastnet » 20 Aug 2010, 12:12

Afternoon all... been away for a while with no internet access and now back to the daily grind but itching to finish this and get it working. I suppose this could be a long winded bump of sorts but wondered if it might get more viewers in the de-bugging section? (mods: do I start a new "parallel" thread or do you work your own magic?)
Either way if anyone can see any errors I've made please please please pull me apart at the seams.

Regards,
Jason.
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Re: Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)

Postby Fastnet » 29 Jan 2011, 00:54

Hello everyone, it's been ages since I last had a chance to sit down and warm up the iron but the good news is that the 3pdt switch I'd used was faulty. Changed the switch and for a while the fuzz worked great! The pot however had no effect at all on the sound. Then the LED started to intermitantly shine less brightly and then dim.... Have I burnt out the LED? I used a 1.5k resistor to limit the current. Was this the wrong value or does this sound like a short somwhere...?
Any ideas as to what could be the cause?

Please, if anyone could share any thoughts....

I will get this working if it's the last thing I do... namely because I couldn't stand the embarressment of buying a clone and the band would never let me forget it...

Happy New Year by the way!
Regards,
J.
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Re: Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)

Postby Fastnet » 16 Feb 2011, 12:44

It's Alive!

Folks, finally able to report that I have a fully functioning Kay Fuzztone!

After some generous pm's from Dan all is well.
The cure for the pot function/volume issue was a jumper from the lug 2 conection on the board to the out (thanks DAN) and also a resistor from lug 1 to ground (thanks SOLIDHEX)... Interestingly the 10k didn't do the job so after hearing the original was built with a 50k pot I increased that to a 47k (nearest I had to hand). Now I have that trademark pulse when you play the Elevation riff. As it's actually working now I'll fiddle with a few values and different diodes just to see where it leads me...

So, to recap... Scruffies layout is verified with the following additions...
Track cut between C1 & R3.
Jumper from Lug 2 board connection to out.
100k wah pot reduced down to 50k ish....

Enormous thanks to all contributers in this thread for there help and assistance.
This is such a great place to learn!
Regards,
J.
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Re: Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)

Postby sinner » 08 Aug 2012, 07:09

Ok, I almost search of my ass to find this pict of the pot. Factory schemo is wrong as you clearly see. K-fuzz pot is not 50k, it's actually 250k so AM schemo is right here

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Re: Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)

Postby agoldoor » 15 Aug 2012, 01:02

If you guys need any measurements or any other details on this pedal, I happen to have a very nice original, so I can provide any details

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Re: Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)

Postby Mbas974 » 11 Nov 2012, 21:16

Trying to find as close as possible the tone for Elevetion.... some highilights :

Note that C2 (2n2) is placed on the wrong side on the file hosted on analogguru site
( should be against Q2 )

Other thing, On the first release the Tone cap was 1nF as stated here
http://los-angeles-guitar-shop.com/1960s-kay-fuzz/
while onto following pedals it has been changed to 4n7 as shown on Sinner picture

Byeee
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Re: Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)

Postby analogguru » 11 Nov 2012, 22:10

Mbas974 wrote:Note that C2 (2n2) is placed on the wrong side on the file hosted on analogguru site ( should be against Q2 )

Please do others a favour and don´t spread BS. The factory schematic inside the Kay Fuzztone is WRONG. The reality is different from the factory schematic and as shown in the mentioned schematic - verified on more than 20 units. C2 (2n2) is between B and C of Q1 on every of this units. Did you trace at least one Kay Fuzztone ?

So show and trace first only a single unit where C2 is between B and C of Q2 before your make such false and misleading claims.

Mbas974 wrote:Other thing, On the first release the Tone cap was 1nF as stated here
http://los-angeles-guitar-shop.com/1960s-kay-fuzz/
while onto following pedals it has been changed to 4n7 as shown on Sinner picture

Byeee

Sorry, but in the pictures in the link I cannot see a 1 nF capacitor.... the factory schematic is WRONG in all pedals, even in this pedal from 1973 - not from 1968 as "stated" by the seller.

So before you confuse others with wrong claims, please show at least a single Kay Fuzztone where:
1.) C2 (2n2) is between C and B of Q2
2.) Where the tone cap is 1n

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Re: Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)

Postby Mbas974 » 11 Nov 2012, 22:55

Never got the pedal, otherwise I should not waste time cloning :-)

I found two type of schematic one is hosted by you the other is kind of picure as per my link
I was referring to the schematic showed on such site.

1nF is clearly stated as .001 but whether all the schematic are wrong

My post was for all people like me who find two version and ask for the right one.
To any moderator, feel free to remove my posts whether these create misunderstanding.

Peace !!
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Re: Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)

Postby analogguru » 11 Nov 2012, 23:16

This has been discussed to a "dead horse" at the other forum ages ago. Google is your friend - you only have to use it:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/i ... ic=55883.0

http://johannburkard.de/blog/music/effe ... -Tone.html

Therefore I don´t understand, why there always doubts come up.

BTW, The Kay Fuzz Tone is the poor man´s version of the Univox Super Fuzz, and later the Ibanez Standard Fuzz:
http://analogguru.an.ohost.de/193/schem ... rdFuzz.gif

Maybe the Ibanez Standard Fuzz will fit your taste better.

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