Mosrite - Fuzzrite  [schematic]

Discussion regarding early stompbox technology: 1960-1975 Please keep discussion focused and contribute what info you have...

Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby analogguru » 05 Apr 2010, 18:50

This is the start of this thread for the Mosrite Fuzzrite cause we don´t have one.

Some infos can be found here:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=542
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3697
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6673

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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby Dr Tony Balls » 05 Apr 2010, 19:00

cool, thanks, AG!


I tried making the germanium fuzzrite based on the following layout maybe a week or two ago with sockets for the transistors, but got kinda lackluster results. Anyone made that one and have any advice? If I remember right it was pretty screechy at the fuzzier settings, almost like there was something wrong. Then again i've had the same thing happen with a fuzzface build where it sounded like shit on the breadboard but fine when it got into an enclosure.

http://aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php? ... alNumber=2

I tried it with some 2n5088s as a control, and then with some old soviet germaniums I have, which were reading hfe ~200.

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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby IvIark » 05 Apr 2010, 19:08

Just to keep things in the right place, here's another layout I did for axial components:

Image

and for tagboard:

Image
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby Dr Tony Balls » 05 Apr 2010, 19:23

Those layouts appear to be for the "silicon" version. Can anyone comments about which version they like better and why?
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby theehman » 05 Apr 2010, 19:32

Dr Tony Balls wrote:cool, thanks, AG!


I tried making the germanium fuzzrite based on the following layout maybe a week or two ago with sockets for the transistors, but got kinda lackluster results. Anyone made that one and have any advice? If I remember right it was pretty screechy at the fuzzier settings, almost like there was something wrong. Then again i've had the same thing happen with a fuzzface build where it sounded like shit on the breadboard but fine when it got into an enclosure.

http://aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php? ... alNumber=2

I tried it with some 2n5088s as a control, and then with some old soviet germaniums I have, which were reading hfe ~200.


2N5088s in a circuit designed for PNP germaniums?
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby Scruffie » 05 Apr 2010, 19:38

Here's a vero layout I did with on board pots - Unverified as of yet.
Fits into a 1590B no problem.
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby Dr Tony Balls » 05 Apr 2010, 20:50

theehman wrote:
Dr Tony Balls wrote:cool, thanks, AG!


I tried making the germanium fuzzrite based on the following layout maybe a week or two ago with sockets for the transistors, but got kinda lackluster results. Anyone made that one and have any advice? If I remember right it was pretty screechy at the fuzzier settings, almost like there was something wrong. Then again i've had the same thing happen with a fuzzface build where it sounded like shit on the breadboard but fine when it got into an enclosure.

http://aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php? ... alNumber=2

I tried it with some 2n5088s as a control, and then with some old soviet germaniums I have, which were reading hfe ~200.


2N5088s in a circuit designed for PNP germaniums?


Sorry, I forgot to mention that I reversed the power supply for negative ground. I left off the power filtering electrolytic and diode, so I think I should be fine with NPNs in that configuration.
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby jrod » 05 Apr 2010, 20:52

So, is it safe to believe that the Rosac NuFuzz is really the same circuit as the Mosrite Fuzzrite? The schematics posted look very, very much like the Fuzzrite/Orpheum, etc.
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby Mr. Bill » 05 Apr 2010, 23:15

I believe that they were both designed by Ed Sanner, who also sold his own version at a much later date.
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby keto » 11 Apr 2010, 05:55

I built this http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/pcbs/fuzzritelayout.gif and socketed the 2 output caps. At .01 it got quite woofy, but at .0068 it's a much rounder fuller (though still quite hairy) and very awesome thick sounding fuzz. Has TONS of output, unity is very early on the vol pot. Stock is quite bright and cutting, which isn't really my thing. Tried a few different transistors, garden variety 3904's sounded easily the best.

It cleans up quite well also, at least with my Tele. Not perfect but very usable clean.

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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby floobydust » 11 Apr 2010, 10:56

I have met Eddie Sanner a few times. Unlike some of the other pedal makers from the 60s, Eddie is pretty easy going for someone of his status. Very approachable due mainly to his western american roots and southern style hospitality. Just don't get him started about religion. He will talk your ears off about it. But he is a bright yet modest man. I may be able to directly (or ask a mutual friend) to get him to post here. I can only try.
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby RnFR » 12 Apr 2010, 07:34

floobydust wrote:I have met Eddie Sanner a few times. Unlike some of the other pedal makers from the 60s, Eddie is pretty easy going for someone of his status. Very approachable due mainly to his western american roots and southern style hospitality. Just don't get him started about religion. He will talk your ears off about it. But he is a bright yet modest man. I may be able to directly (or ask a mutual friend) to get him to post here. I can only try.

that would be very cool! tell him he his always welcome. i'd like to show him my little modified version!
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby DiscoFreq » 12 Apr 2010, 13:48

floobydust wrote:I have met Eddie Sanner a few times. Unlike some of the other pedal makers from the 60s, Eddie is pretty easy going for someone of his status. Very approachable due mainly to his western american roots and southern style hospitality. Just don't get him started about religion. He will talk your ears off about it. But he is a bright yet modest man. I may be able to directly (or ask a mutual friend) to get him to post here. I can only try.

I called him last year and had a very interesting conversation about his work for Mosrite, Rosac and later projects (mostly amps). I still have to make a little article about it (based on my notes & memory...).

He doesn't have internet anymore, so posting can be difficult ;)
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby theehman » 12 Apr 2010, 13:54

I talked to him a few years back when I was doing research for my Foxey Lady article. He was very kind and generous with information. We need more designers like him.
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby John Lyons » 12 Apr 2010, 15:59

Is that Foxey Lady article on line Ron?
I'd like to read it if so.

thanks

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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby theehman » 12 Apr 2010, 16:10

John Lyons wrote:Is that Foxey Lady article on line Ron?
I'd like to read it if so.

thanks

John


Sure. You can read it here: http://electroharmonix.ronsound.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10&Itemid=45
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby grantb » 27 Apr 2010, 03:54

Dr Tony Balls wrote:cool, thanks, AG!


I tried making the germanium fuzzrite based on the following layout maybe a week or two ago with sockets for the transistors, but got kinda lackluster results. Anyone made that one and have any advice? If I remember right it was pretty screechy at the fuzzier settings, almost like there was something wrong. Then again i've had the same thing happen with a fuzzface build where it sounded like shit on the breadboard but fine when it got into an enclosure.

http://aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php? ... alNumber=2

I tried it with some 2n5088s as a control, and then with some old soviet germaniums I have, which were reading hfe ~200.


I built one years ago from the same schematic this one seems to be based on. I think it sounds fantastic, in that 60's garage psych kind of way, esp. with single coils. IIRC the sound was quite dependent on transistor gain combos. Sounded best to me with gain between 80-100 for both.

Keep in mind the gain/fuzz(depth?) control is also a tone control. If you crank it, you get buzzy sound with no bass. The other way is less fuzz, more bass. Right in the middle is well balanced with plenty of fur still. This "feature" is the best thing about the circuit. Between this and guitar vol, it can really dial in a lot of different characters, not just more or less fuzz. It's one of my fave fuzzes, but I like my fuzz "far out man!" and not "sweet tone, man", so YMMV.

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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby Thaxt » 27 Apr 2010, 16:52

For those who are into intricate listening, you can hear what (I think) is the Ge Fuzzrite in action,
as used by Steve Stills on the early Buffalo Springfield recordings - songs like "Mr Soul" , "Bluebird" etc. This is especially evident on the "Mr Soul" / Smothers Brothers live TV clip that was once up on YouTube. They begin w a slow 'For What It's Worth", then segue into Mr Soul. Both that intro lead & the break lead have got to be a Ge Fuzzrite, to my ears, @ least.

I once ran into a guy (when fuzz shopping & asking questions about Still's sound on these) who claims to have been a roadie for Steve in the 70's (I have no reason to doubt his story). He distinctly told me that the Fuzzrite was the only fuzz Steve used @ that point. But, due to the difference in sound between the early Ge runoff & later Si layout, I could'nt figure why the Si one wan't giving me exacting Mr-Soul-era lead sounds. Then , along came the early Ge Fuzzrite schematic posted more recently.

The GS Ritefuzz just didn't get me into the Springfield zone quite as much as I would have liked when I first found it. I built it in the latter 1990's, but, returned to the circuit recently for modding around to get more variable & authentic sounds. I really like that Green Bomb one, btw, that is on Apocalypse Audio's site. I grafted that ' Shape' variation onto my Ritefuzz mods, w good results there.

Having built the both the Si version - original layout - then the Gus Smalley Ritefuzz, I was pleased to have found that Ge schematic that was used for the first run of Fuzzrites. It has a decidedly different sound than the Si & Smalley versions. And, it's very tweakable. I tried changing the outcaps (larger, as is often done), gain resistors, put pots on critical tone determining spots, etc, & am able to get all kinds of early Springfield sounds, lots of "Mr Soul" compressed/sputterfuzz/octave-y variations, plus. Truly cool, it's a very tweakable circuit for this.

Neil Young, (as was written of in one of Guitar Player's 1990's, Retro Fuzz Pedal/Distortion History articles), was using a US Vox Tone Bender. The really mosquito-like buzz on some of the Springfield songs must have come from that one. It's much less self compressed than the Fuzzrite, & also sports that ultra-thinning, .0033 output cap. 'Mr Soul' features a classic lead exchange between the 2 guitarists. Hm... Ge Fuzzrite trades licks w Vox TB, an interesting early fuzz moment captured on vinyl.

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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby Thaxt » 27 Apr 2010, 17:15

You can mod the Ge Fuzzrite by just changing the circuit polarity- change the polarity of the 25uf cap - then, try 2N5088's, or even 2N5089s for a really buzzy, zippy sound. Greater transient impact - the notes' attack hits harder.

Also important on any of these Fuzzrite mods is making those .0022uf outcaps larger - I use, say, .022 caps for a much beefier sound, but, which still retains the Fuzzrite's octavy, buzzy, sitar-like character.

That .0068uf cap mod sounds good, too, tho. The .0022uf caps seem to work well only where it's placed on the Shin-Ei Fuzz & it's variation mods.
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby Thaxt » 27 Apr 2010, 17:19

Lowering the gain resistors, I meant there -
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