Thomas Organ Co. - Cry Baby Stereo Fuzz Wah

Discussion regarding early stompbox technology: 1960-1975 Please keep discussion focused and contribute what info you have...
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modman
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Post by modman »

ImageImageImageImage

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Some gut shots I spotted on ebay some time ago, didn't find much info anywhere, except that its available from rounsound.com, the Vox version, that is.

click on thumbnails for a larger pic :idea:
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Post by analogguru »

The unit shown (Model 9-3701) is identical with the Cry Baby Model 95-910511 and basically a Standard Wah-circuit and a Fuzz-Face-type Fuzz circuit (see Jen/Vox Distortion-booster).

When I find some time I will place a schematic.

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Post by CHEEZOR »

I just picked one of these up on Ebay. Is there a schematic out there for it? Mine is slightly different than the one pictured, but only because different parts were used. I have different caps and the stack of dimes inductor in mine. I was hoping for the other inductor because I already have a Thomas Organ Crybaby with the stack of dimes in it. Oh well.

I was having some trouble with the Sustain trim pot. When I turn it up (ccw) the fuzz gets kind of crackly. (Not the action of turning the pot, but the high settings themselves cause the problem) I dont think that its supposed to be that way because it is very intermittent. Strange... But the whole pedal was giving me problems when I first got it. Most of which have cleared up on their own or with minimal effort. If anyone has any ideas about the strange crackling that would be awesome.

I think I am going to mod the wah portion of the pedal a little to have more volume so it doesn't drop when engaged and move the sweep range down a bit to cut out the nasty trebles. I was also thinking about replacing the trim pots with normal pots and mounting them somewhere if I can find room.

I also want to add an external power jack. Is there any info on the net about how to add one? I have never done it before.

Thanks for your time. Great sounding pedal, I hope it sounds better after the mods!

I figured I would post some pics in case anyone was interested. http://www.flickr.com/photos/41299889@N ... 2277439071

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Dan N
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Post by Dan N »

Thanks for the pics!

I have two, a Thomas Vox and a Thomas Cry Baby. Both have the square TDK.

I'm pretty sure there is a schematic out there somewhere. I did trace the fuzz part in mine to have a good look-
http://users.rio.com/senorris/junk/cbfuzzsch.gif

A paint peeling Fuzzface derivative.
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Post by CHEEZOR »

Thanks for the schematic! I was looking at the transistors today and I noticed that Q1 and Q2 say 5115, but Q3 and Q4 say 5117. Do you know if there are any differences? :scratch: I have never heard of the 5115, but I have heard that the 5117 is just a re-marked transistor. (It was posted somewhere on this forum I think.) I just wanted to note that for anybody else who might be interested in building one because I assumed that they would have all been 5117's.

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Post by Dan N »

You can cross reference Thomas part numbers here: http://www.organservice.com/

Looks like they call the 5115 a 2N3405, and the 5117 crosses to a 2N2925.
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Post by sonicvi »

Here's the schematic.
Image

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Post by Dirk_Hendrik »

sonicvi wrote:Here's the schematic.
https://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23 ... uzzwah.jpg

Thanks!! :thumbsup
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Post by CHEEZOR »

Thanks a bunch! :D

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Post by ChristoMephisto »

Was looking at the old datasheets from the 70's, and the 5115 (2N3405) are suited for high level linear amplifiers.
The 5117 (2N2925) are in the old wahs and practically the same as the 2N2924 transistors from the original wah schems.
Wouldn't that make them backwards in the suited application?
Got a Vox TOC 9-3700 and the 5115s are in the wah, and the 5117s are in the distortion (Vox V8162 Distortion Booster).
Measured the transistors and the 5115s were 258/279hfe and the 5117s were 416/417hfe.
Would this make the fuzz better and the wah smoother if they were switched?

I got the same problem with the sustain trimpot, can't turn it clockwise except for about 5-10%

Just noticed my transistors are the old TO-98 style compared to the modern style in the 9-3701 above

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Post by sonicvi »

MIne had 5115s in the wah and 5117s in the fuzz.
The fuzz in mine also went all squealy with the trimpot all the way up, so it's probably not meant to be full on.
I ended up modding the fuzz on mine to Tone bender Mk1.5 spec with NPN germaniums, along with some other mods.
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Post by ChristoMephisto »

Weird how the V8162 has a 5k sustain pot and the fuzz wah has a 50k

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Post by george giblet »

FWIW, the wah part is exactly the same as the Thomas Organ Co. Cry Baby Wah traced some years back. Obviously the inductor should be 500mH not uH. The original used a stack of dimes inductor with DC resistance around 45ohm, transistor gain about 490.

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Post by ChristoMephisto »

Thought the original wahs had the square TDK 5103 inductor?
Even tho they were made by various manufactuers.

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Post by CHEEZOR »

ChristoMephisto wrote:Thought the original wahs had the square TDK 5103 inductor?
Even tho they were made by various manufactuers.
I think you are correct. Im pretty sure the older wahs had the TDK and the newer ones had the stack of dimes.

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Post by george giblet »

I was under the impression the unit I traced was the earliest one but apparently not.

Here's a good summary/disection with pics ,

http://www.geocities.jp/e08120/wahwah/wah.html

[On second thoughts, I'm not sure, the '03 brown inductor isn't shown on that site.]

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Post by ChristoMephisto »

Yeah, have that page bookmarked too, can't translate the damn thing, looks like it has lots of good info
Seems there is a bit of discretion who was making what when.
The 9-3700 I have has a Vox logo on the bottom plate, about same the time Thomas Organ was making the fuzz-wah for Vox,
or was making them on their own but putting a vox logo on it. Copyright laws were a bit lax then.

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Post by Dan N »

george giblet wrote:
[On second thoughts, I'm not sure, the '03 brown inductor isn't shown on that site.]
I always thought the brown 03 predated the square.

Funny, with the borderline obsessive fascination with wah history, I can't find anything definitive online.
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Post by george giblet »

obsessive fascination with wah history
I think I'm over my obsessive phase but it's annoying when you spend time researching stuff, get it all together, then down the track, no, it's not that at all - grrrr.
can't translate the damn thing,
Use the google translator (babel dies, google works).

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