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Sunn Beta Bass preamp schematic

Posted: 15 Feb 2015, 18:25
by arcaarca
Hi everyone!
Hope the topic is in the right area.
I'm updating the ugly jpg schematic of this amp, now I've made only a "single channel" version, removing the electronic switch. Here's an eagle version with really dummy libraries (sorry, first works with this software!), but more readable than the old one,and (I hope) useful!
I'd like to put this preamp in a box, and if someone wants to help with the layout will be great!

Single Channel Schematic
http://s3.postimg.org/ada3tjr0h/Sunn_Be ... hannel.png

Double Channel A/B Schematic
http://s4.postimg.org/rw46zwogr/Sunn_Be ... hannel.png

Re: Sunn Beta Bass preamp schematic

Posted: 15 Feb 2015, 22:51
by jbgron
I have one of these amps, let me know if I can assist.

Re: Sunn Beta Bass preamp schematic

Posted: 19 Feb 2015, 16:30
by arcaarca
Hi jbgron,
I've seen only the service manual of these amp, found online, and the schematic should be correct. What I'd like to do is a sort of ABY switch (true bypass) instead the electronic switch of the amp, and put all in a stompbox or similar.
The IC of the amp are CD4069 and 4558, right?
I'm trying put all in a veroboard layout, but I'm slow and lazy, so I started with sharing the "simplified and readable" schem!!
Cheers!

Re: Sunn Beta Bass preamp schematic

Posted: 14 Apr 2015, 21:14
by ZombiCrow
How difficult will this be to distill into a distortion pedal, would you say? Thank you!

Re: Sunn Beta Bass preamp schematic

Posted: 15 Apr 2015, 13:07
by grrrunge
ZombiCrow wrote:How difficult will this be to distill into a distortion pedal, would you say? Thank you!
If you're handy with Eagle or similar pcb-cad software: Not that difficult.
If you're badass around vero or perfboard: Not that difficult.
Otherwise: Pretty hard.

Re: Sunn Beta Bass preamp schematic

Posted: 15 Apr 2015, 13:39
by grrrunge
Looks like a fun project! Here's the service manual schematic:
sunn_beta_bass.jpg

Re: Sunn Beta Bass preamp schematic

Posted: 15 Apr 2015, 15:18
by morain51
Hi ! Please excuse my bad English because I'm French.
It seems like two resistors have been forgotten on the first post schematics.
R123 100k on channel 1, should be placed between lug 2-1 of Drive pot (R5/2 1M lin), and lug 1 of IC2A 4069N
= R152 100k on channel 2, should be placed between lug 2-1 of Drive pot (R40/2 1M lin), and lug 1 of IC7A 4069N

R186 1,5k on channel 1, should be placed between lug 7 of IC4B LM4558N and between the ends of R26 and C20
= R170 1,5k on channel 2, should be placed between lug 7 of IC9B LM4558N and between the ends of R61 and C42

There is a mistake on the Single Channel Schematic: it is mentioned that IC2 pin 8 is joined to +15V and IC2 pin 4 is joined to -15V. But it should be IC3 pin 8 and 4.
This mistake is not repeated on Double Channel A/B Schematic.

And lastly, C20, C21, C42 and C43 should have been reported as Non-Polarized: NP

I hope my post is understandable :)

Re: Sunn Beta Bass preamp schematic

Posted: 15 Apr 2015, 17:29
by grrrunge
Mind giving this a lookover, before i begin layouting?
sunn_beta_bass_preamp.png

Re: Sunn Beta Bass preamp schematic

Posted: 16 Apr 2015, 21:14
by morain51
I think this one is correct,
I don't know how CD4049UBE should be powered, but on the original schematic 74C04 is powered with +8V
Why don't you use 4069 instead ?
Maybe you should indicate +V is +15V and -V is -15V

The volume pot is not wired as the Sunn schematic, but I don't know if it's important.

Re: Sunn Beta Bass preamp schematic

Posted: 16 Apr 2015, 22:20
by deltafred
morain51 wrote:I think this one is correct,
I don't know how CD4049UBE should be powered, but on the original schematic 74C04 is powered with +8V
Why don't you use 4069 instead ?
Maybe you should indicate +V is +15V and -V is -15V

The volume pot is not wired as the Sunn schematic, but I don't know if it's important.
4000 Series CMOS is limited to a supply voltage of 15v, how you are proposing connecting it would supply it with 30V.

It is usual, but not mandatory, to connected it between 0V and +15V supplies on a -15/0/+15 supply.

Re: Sunn Beta Bass preamp schematic

Posted: 16 Apr 2015, 22:47
by morain51
Sorry, I meant just specify that the circuit is powered with -15/0/+15 on your schematic (not especially the CMOS),
on the top left with the connecting points or in the indications at the bottom right.

If the CMOS can be powered with 0/+15V so you're right, let's skip the +8V :wink:

Re: Sunn Beta Bass preamp schematic

Posted: 17 Apr 2015, 08:42
by grrrunge
morain51 wrote:Why don't you use 4069 instead ?
That's a typo. The schematic should say CD4069UBE. My bad ;)
morain51 wrote:on the original schematic 74C04 is powered with +8V
The service manual is a little blurry, but the way i see it, the VCC-pin is connected to +15V through a 470R, and then there's a test point that should read +8V directly at the VCC-pin.
Connecting it to both a 15V and an 8V supply makes absolutely no sense, whereas a 7V voltage drop across 470R implies a current draw from the 4069 of roughly 15mA. That seems plausible.
morain51 wrote:Maybe you should indicate +V is +15V and -V is -15V
The plan is that this thing is going in a pedal. The most obvious solution would be to supply the circuit +/-9V from a 9V charge pump.
morain51 wrote:The volume pot is not wired as the Sunn schematic, but I don't know if it's important.
I think you're right. It's wired backwards in my schematic. Considering this is an inverting amplifier, the gain should rise as more resistance is introduced in the feedback path.

Re: Sunn Beta Bass preamp schematic

Posted: 17 Apr 2015, 09:20
by morain51
grrrunge wrote: The service manual is a little blurry, but the way i see it, the VCC-pin is connected to +15V through a 470R, and then there's a test point that should read +8V directly at the VCC-pin.
Connecting it to both a 15V and an 8V supply makes absolutely no sense, whereas a 7V voltage drop across 470R implies a current draw from the 4069 of roughly 15mA. That seems plausible.
You are certainly right, on Sunn manual the +8V is drawn with a circle instead of an arrow like the -15/+15V, it may be a test point.

So, this schematic is ready to being layout :thumbsup
Are you planning to edit a pcb board, or a veroboard ?

Re: Sunn Beta Bass preamp schematic

Posted: 17 Apr 2015, 10:56
by grrrunge
grrrunge wrote:
morain51 wrote:The volume pot is not wired as the Sunn schematic, but I don't know if it's important.
I think you're right. It's wired backwards in my schematic. Considering this is an inverting amplifier, the gain should rise as more resistance is introduced in the feedback path.
Just to correct myself: It looks like my drawing is correct. Look at the pot numbering and the direction indicating arrow ;)

Re: Sunn Beta Bass preamp schematic

Posted: 17 Apr 2015, 12:29
by morain51
I admit I'm a bit lost with pot numbering. Fortunately, it is very easy to verify when plugging a pedal for the first time (and to correct mistakes :lol: )

Just in case, if you want to build a Beta Lead version, you will have to swap the following values in your schematic :
C15 : replace 56n by 22n
C17 : replace 8n2 by 5n
C18 : replace 15n by 8n2
C21 : replace 47n by 27n

I think these are the only differences between the two preamps.

Re: Sunn Beta Bass preamp schematic

Posted: 09 Jul 2015, 12:06
by guile31
Hi guys,
thanks all for the job on this thread :thumbsup

i have the "service manual" and want to make a "lead" version of the grrrunge schem'
so, i'm a bit lost ....
not on the rez/caps values difference but on the IC's
why replace the rc4558 to 4opa ?
is the sound already "legit" with these replacements ?

if anybody have succesfully built one, can you please tell me what IC's u utilised (ref.) and if the grrrunge schem is working?

Re: Sunn Beta Bass preamp schematic

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 16:01
by grrrunge
The 4OPA designation is for my own reference only, as the board layout I'm working on uses quad op-amps. 4558 will work fine in this circuit, as will any other general purpose op-amp ;)

Re: Sunn Beta Bass preamp schematic

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 16:07
by guile31
Ok, i understand
Thank you grrrunge :wink:

Re: Sunn Beta Bass preamp schematic

Posted: 15 Aug 2015, 08:24
by HENK
Morning.
Any News on this???

Re: Sunn Beta Bass preamp schematic

Posted: 16 Aug 2015, 12:06
by grrrunge
Nope. I haven't had the time recently. Exam preparations and studio-building is what i do most these days.
I'll get around to it eventually ;)