Fryer Guitars - 1 watt Ge amp

moonbird · Post by **moonbird** » 09 Apr 2010, 22:28

Here is a proported Deacy amp clone out there:

https://fryerguitars.wordpress.com/2009 ... chematics/

Does anyone know of it?? Are there exisiting threads (couldn't find any).Can anybody read or extrapolate the schematics better than I can (not well at all

). thx

Grendahl · Post by **Grendahl** » 10 Apr 2010, 01:35

Here's the three images they have on the link you gave, expanded to their normal resolution. I think you'll find they're all easy to read.

moonbird · Post by **moonbird** » 10 Apr 2010, 01:58

Thank much

. BTW - how did you get the higher res version -- when I clicked on them nothing happened. hmmm

Grendahl · Post by **Grendahl** » 10 Apr 2010, 02:24

I right clicked on the images, and selected "View Image". That took me to a link like this one: https://fryerguitars.files.wordpress.co ... =497&h=334

I then removed the ?w=497&h=334 portion from the end of the link, which is the code used to set the display size of the pictures (albeit a very crude methodology), and used a clean link to the full size image, similar to this: https://fryerguitars.files.wordpress.co ... cmodel.jpg

I saved those larger images to my computer, and uploaded them to this forum, to avoid stealing the bandwidth from fryerguitars. (As a webmaster I know what a pain crosslinked images can be when the bills come in.)

gght · Post by **gght** » 10 Apr 2010, 02:58

From a few searches .. it seems the dead end here is the transformers.. at least for DIY. Unless you want to buy the Mullard transistor reference book, determine the transformer values, and locate or have custom made similar transformers. It appears that Mark H. and R. G. were somewhat involved in discussions on DIYstomp back in 2005.

gght · Post by **gght** » 10 Apr 2010, 03:12

A bit of info on the transformers pulled from DIY thread:

Title: Re: Deacy Amp (?)
Post by: Vsat on October 15, 2005, 09:57:01 AM
That schematic is the same one shown on Fig.4, page 171 of the 1961 Mullard manual.
The transformers are identified in the text as Colne 06005 (for T1) and Colne 06006 for T2.
The equivalent Hammond transformers are listed in the back of the manual as 57318 and 57319.
Maybe someone has an old Hammond catalog that lists the specs?

Text also states that this amp is the same as the one shown in Fig.13, page 160, (but with the preamp added).
Fig.13 has some further transformer info:
T1 is 3.5:1+1, Rp < 130 ohms, each half of the tapped secondary has Rs < 40 ohms.

T2 is 3.1+3.1:1, each half of the split primary has Rp < 1 ohm, Rs < 0.2 ohm.
Speaker is 3 ohms.
The OC81D driver and OC81 matched pair were supplied as a set by Mullard.
Cheers, Mike

Grendahl · Post by **Grendahl** » 10 Apr 2010, 03:13

Well, they do sell a kit for this with the transformers in it.

Aside from that, I did at least find an image of them, but can't tell what type they are. (Just saw your post on this info as i was beginning to find some of the same stuff. Great find Mike!

)

I've gathered all the images from their site relating to this project. Schematics, layout images, cabinet building diagrams, etc. and since Mike was able to find the transformer specs, the only thing missing now is the PCB layouts.

I noticed that they say this sounds good with a treble boost in front of it. Whether or not this is just marketing to try to sell their treble boost pedals or not, I grabbed the schematic and values from their DIY treble boost page and included them with the stuff for this project in the attached file.

moonbird · Post by **moonbird** » 10 Apr 2010, 03:29

Grendahl wrote:I then removed the ?w=497&h=334 portion from the end of the link, which is the code used to set the display size of the pictures (albeit a very crude methodology), and used a clean link to the full size image, similar to this: https://fryerguitars.files.wordpress.co ... cmodel.jpg

Tricky dude -- I'll make a note of that little trick. thx.

Glad to see that others found the Hammond references on the "Deacy Secrets Revealed" thread on this board. Think they will work? (probably not) I see transistor trannys on EBAY all the time cheap - might be time to pay more attention.

The trannys in the pic that got posted above from Fryer looks alot like these balanced output baluns (be careful how you pronounce *that* word in public

)on the Weber kit site:

https://taweber.powweb.com/store/modkits.htm#balun

See the: Balanced/Unbalanced Line Out kit (scroll down a bit). Probably different values - but might be a place to start. I will ask who makes them for Weber. Maybe if we get a name - a discussion can start.

Grendahl · Post by **Grendahl** » 10 Apr 2010, 03:44

Interesting read about the history of the Deacy amp that this is based off of.
http://www.brianmay.com/brian/briannews ... jun05.html

Turns out that we may have better luck trying to get the values out of a VOX BRIAN MAY SPECIAL VBM1, which is supposedly a replica of the Deacy which Brian May worked with Vox on.
http://www.guitarplayer.com/article/vox ... ug-03/1374

gght · Post by **gght** » 10 Apr 2010, 03:45

I am not Mike, I just posted his info... just too be clear..

Unless I misread, the Hammond transformers are equivalents to the original Mullard specs??

That price is too much for that board...If we could find an old Hammond catalog.. and get the specs??

Wish they told HOW the clip was recorded...direct to board???

Dave

moonbird · Post by **moonbird** » 10 Apr 2010, 04:20

Here are the XICON transistor OTs that Mouser offers - does any one know anybody who could narroe the search a bit??? Someone who might know the impedences a AC127 etc. might want?

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.asp ... 4294966099

gght · Post by **gght** » 10 Apr 2010, 04:21

No doubt, at this point we need a REAL techie to sort this out@!!!

moonbird · Post by **moonbird** » 10 Apr 2010, 04:44

Here is the schematic posted a Fryers for the "DIY" version of the treble boost. From what I know it is an integral part of the B May sound:

https://fryerguitars.wordpress.com/2009 ... schematic/

Grendahl · Post by **Grendahl** » 10 Apr 2010, 04:48

moonbird wrote:Here is the schematic posted a Fryers for the "DIY" version of the treble boost. From what I know it is an integral part of the B May sound:

https://fryerguitars.wordpress.com/2009 ... schematic/

That's the same info I have in the .zip file attached to one of the posts higher in this thread.

I'm in communication with someone who has built one of these clones, and have asked him for any info on the transformers that he can provide. He's going to see what he can find, if anything, and I'll let you all know.

analogguru · Post by **analogguru** » 10 Apr 2010, 09:48

There is absolutely NO evidence, that the Deacey-amp used the outdated mullard-schematic:
http://www.brianmay.com/brian/briannews ... jun05.html

John literally found the circuit board as he was walking down the street one day in London - this occurred in early/mid 1971 at a time when he was first playing in "Queen" with Freddie Mercury, Roger Taylor and Brian May.
Being a keen electronics experimenter (and was then studying for an Electronics Degree), John's attention was drawn to the wires that were dangling over the side of a builder's skip - the large skip was sitting on the side of the road filled with rubbish which was about to be taken away to the tip.

These wires were attached to a circuit board and John's curiosity led him to examine the board to see if he could salvage it and put it to some use. He initially thought that the circuit board might have come from a battery operated cassette player or radio, and after inspecting it decided it would do the job as a small practice amplifier for guitar (John played guitar as well as bass).

- most of the transistor radios of this time used a similar topology with two transformers.
- most of them were made in Japan.
- most of them had much smaller transformers, especially the input transformer.
- most of these radios were running on 6V.
- most of the later designs (> 1963) had a NTC for thermal stabilisation at the base of the output transistors
- most of the later designs had the feedback loop to the emitter of the driver transistor

Therefore it is very likekely, that the Fryer circuit does NOT reflect the "real Deacey-amp". Any old transistor radio from the fleamarket will be as near as the Fryer-stuff - and it will be much cheaper. Don´t waste your time and money on that.

I have to look, but I think Mouser should have usable transformers.

More on this can be found here:
https://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=414

analogguru

lolbou · Post by **lolbou** » 10 Apr 2010, 12:00

And here's a link to a thread where I try and check two transformers from a mid 60s radio... Considering what's above, I might need to do my measurements again, and find an appropriate way of doing it... These transformers are looking identical, and are approximately the same sizes as the Fryer ones...

I've been looking back at the circuit last week, trying to figure out what did what... I really feel confident about this Pizon Bros. radio I have to be close enough to achieve good sounds. BTW, the Fryer stuff looks also close to it, at least in the way it's designed, but the PIzon shows slight difference with what AG mentionned:

analogguru wrote: - most of the transistor radios of this time used a similar topology with two transformers.
- most of them were made in Japan.
- most of them had much smaller transformers, especially the input transformer.
- most of these radios were running on 6V.
- most of the later designs (> 1963) had a NTC for thermal stabilisation at the base of the output transistors
- most of the later designs had the feedback loop to the emitter of the driver transistor

(in order of appearance)
- yes.
- no, in Paris.
- yes, these are quite small.
- no, the Pizon runs on 9V, positive ground.
- no NTC in it AKAIK.
- no feedback loop at all as far as I can see on the schem...

I'll probably start a thread for some circuitry analysis purposes, and showing the work in progress...

moonbird · Post by **moonbird** » 11 Apr 2010, 03:26

lolbou wrote:I'll probably start a thread for some circuitry analysis purposes, and showing the work in progress...

That would be great ...

I always just measure DCR on Pri/Sec and then weigh the transformer. Can get you within shootin distance. Thank much!!

moonbird · Post by **moonbird** » 19 Apr 2010, 18:44

Anybody hear more on this?? thx.

Grendahl · Post by **Grendahl** » 20 Apr 2010, 00:27

Last word on this from a guy who built one on his own (found his demo of it on youtube and contacted him) was that he just bought an old radio from that era and cannibalized the transformers out of it.

moonbird · Post by **moonbird** » 21 Apr 2010, 21:21

Could you please provde the youtube link or keyword you used to find it?? thx much!!