Recommend me some books on discrete op amps

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Recommend me some books on discrete op amps

Postby grrrunge » 26 May 2015, 12:55

As the title says: I need recommendations on good books covering circuit design of operational amplifiers. Preferably BJT stuff :)
I've been using these so far:
- Sedra/Smith: Microelectronic Circuits
- Bob Cordell: Designing Audio Power Amplifiers
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Re: Recommend me some books on discrete op amps

Postby soulsonic » 26 May 2015, 17:27

You need a copy of The Art of Electronics by Horowitz and Hill, if you don't have it already. This isn't specific to the topic, it's just a book you need to have.

Nelson Pass' old article on DIY opamps is interesting. https://www.passdiy.com/images/uploads/project/diyopamp.pdf
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Re: Recommend me some books on discrete op amps

Postby peterc » 26 May 2015, 22:00

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Re: Recommend me some books on discrete op amps

Postby mmolteratx » 27 May 2015, 01:51

Discrete components make lousy op amps, TBH. You need well matched devices for optimum performance, and that's only possible when they're all fab'd on the same wafer. As a result, I don't know of any textbooks off hand that deal with discrete op amps. I can send you some books on analog ICs if you PM me your email though.
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Re: Recommend me some books on discrete op amps

Postby deltafred » 27 May 2015, 09:46

soulsonic wrote:You need a copy of The Art of Electronics by Horowitz and Hill, if you don't have it already. This isn't specific to the topic, it's just a book you need to have.

^ This

No self respecting EE should be without it!
Google it and download as a pdf.
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Re: Recommend me some books on discrete op amps

Postby grrrunge » 27 May 2015, 10:49

@ Soulsonic and Deltafred: Thanks! I've got that one ;) No need to worry there! I'm just looking for stuff more specific towards op-amp design. The Pass article looks interesting.
@ Peterc: Thanks a bunch. I've seen both of these before, but had forgotten about them again :thumbsup
@ Mmolterax: Consider yourself PM'd!
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Re: Recommend me some books on discrete op amps

Postby phatt » 27 May 2015, 14:58

From my own personal experience and journey into chasing and catching things I can't even see and even if I could they travel at the speed of light
so a fly swat won't work. :lol:
Fastest way I found was a combination of reading, buildings a few failures and best of all circuit simulations, put me ahead very fast.

If all you want to do is build your own pedals and audio gear and focus mainly on analog stuff you don't need a lot of hi teck bench gear to do that.
Sure a scope and sig gen would be nice but would likely only see use in fault finding tricky repairs and the good stuff is mostly expensive.
Even if you still don't know which end of a soldering iron is the handle simulation is great because it matters little if you run a 30 volt BJT at 500 volts. [smilie=new_microwave.gif] :lol:

Within a year I was bread boardings circuits and cross referencing the sims to find why I had lost bass or finding where I had added too much gain. :thumbsup

Building directly from claims no matter how good is often the long way around. I found it better to breadboard everything first no matter how fantastic the claim so I urge everyone to do the hard yards for a time until you get familiar with how stuff goes together. You learn heaps more if you make mistakes. I have a whole bottom draw full of mistakes that might look like land fill to some but in fact it's really just my stock of spare parts.

Wiring, layout and ground plane issues will likely slow down progress no matter how much you read or simulate. Power supply can also be a tricky subject. :secret:

Oh FWIW,, I had to read Art of Electronics many times over to absorb the detail and often going back to it to cement the understanding even after many successful builds. It is one of the best books around. :secret: [smilie=a_reading.gif] [smilie=a_reading.gif] [smilie=a_reading.gif]

My 2 cents worth, Phil.
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Re: Recommend me some books on discrete op amps

Postby grrrunge » 30 May 2015, 00:47

Thanks Phil ;)
Thing is: I'm half way through my EE bachelors degree, and I'm thinking about specializing in analog audio electronics, so the interest runs slightly deeper than building a few pedals/audio-gadgets ;)
I find myself getting back to a few books over and over again, Art of Electronics being one of them for basic understanding or a different approach to describing a lot of things.
I stuff my breadboard and do LTspice simulations on an everyday basis. Study and experiment back and forth. But i really need some good literature on amplifier design, op-amp design and the likes - especially BJT stuff at the moment - hence the initial post ;)
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Re: Recommend me some books on discrete op amps

Postby phatt » 30 May 2015, 12:43

Dat's all good grrrunge, heck sounds like you are already way ahead of me, :lol:
You likely want all that node analysis stuff,, Kirchoffs laws and other deeper stuff which can help disect complex circuits.
Most of that is not really my idea of fun and although I get some of it it's way too deep for a fun hobby so I'll leave it for my next life time.

I'm under the impression most of the Analog audio design stuff is pretty much known and been done to death and not much future in it but then it's just a fun hobby for me so I'm on the outer edge of it all, maybe others know more about this subject.
Modeling and like teck seems to be the hot subject now.
Phil.
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Re: Recommend me some books on discrete op amps

Postby Jarno » 30 May 2015, 19:43

These are also some designs on the groupdiy forum, based on melcor 1731 or api2520 opamps. And there are also some original designs with circuit analysis information. Not sure if Fred forssell was mentioned, but he has interesting information on his website too.
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Re: Recommend me some books on discrete op amps

Postby toneman » 30 May 2015, 21:55

i grrrrrrrrunge!

Take a look/google for SWTPC...that's South West Techinal Products Corp.

they used to make many amp and preamp kits.
they had a descrete phono opamp preamp that was super cool.
they also made a series of power amps...most famous is the Tiger.

i found an archive site a while back and downloaded their entire schematic collection.

definitely worth looking at.

lastly, Walter Jung is famous for his OpAmp Cookbook--

http://www.amazon.com/IC-Op-Amp-Cookboo ... 0138896011

very heavy on the math!!!
but, for an EE, that should be easy....
good luck with all your endeavors!!
8)
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Re: Recommend me some books on discrete op amps

Postby mmolteratx » 30 May 2015, 22:49

grrrunge wrote:Thanks Phil ;)
Thing is: I'm half way through my EE bachelors degree, and I'm thinking about specializing in analog audio electronics, so the interest runs slightly deeper than building a few pedals/audio-gadgets ;)
I find myself getting back to a few books over and over again, Art of Electronics being one of them for basic understanding or a different approach to describing a lot of things.
I stuff my breadboard and do LTspice simulations on an everyday basis. Study and experiment back and forth. But i really need some good literature on amplifier design, op-amp design and the likes - especially BJT stuff at the moment - hence the initial post ;)


Don't specialize in audio. Do RF/mm-Wave. It's 1000x more fun, and a hell of a lot more useful.

phatt wrote:Dat's all good grrrunge, heck sounds like you are already way ahead of me, :lol:
You likely want all that node analysis stuff,, Kirchoffs laws and other deeper stuff which can help disect complex circuits.
Most of that is not really my idea of fun and although I get some of it it's way too deep for a fun hobby so I'll leave it for my next life time.


I'd hope he already knows nodal and mesh analysis like the back of his hand before he even tries to tackle real design. It's first semester EE stuff and isn't something you should even have to think about.

I'm under the impression most of the Analog audio design stuff is pretty much known and been done to death and not much future in it but then it's just a fun hobby for me so I'm on the outer edge of it all, maybe others know more about this subject.
Modeling and like teck seems to be the hot subject now.
Phil.


Analog audio, sure. It's been done and done thousands of times. But analog itself is very much alive and a field worth billions. We recently spent $16 million at my school to add a large analog department focused on using standard CMOS processes to achieve circuits that operate in the THz range.
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Re: Recommend me some books on discrete op amps

Postby marshmellow » 01 Jun 2015, 09:04

Almost any literature on opamp design these days is of the integrated nature, especially CMOS. Looking at it from a different angle, an opamp is really just a power amplifier in a smaller format. So for discrete desgin, your best bet is studying these amplifiers and transferring the knowledge and design philosophies. The aforementioned book by Cordell is a good recommendation, as is everything by Douglas Self. For the daily electronics chitchat, the http://www.diyaudio.com/ forums are a great source of knowledge and inspiration.
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