Just upgraded to Windows 10

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Re: Just upgraded to Windows 10

Postby Ice-9 » 03 Aug 2015, 23:07

tube-exorcist wrote:How cool that some are so gullible to install the newest MS-spyware:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-0 ... everything
The Surveillance State Goes Mainstream: Windows 10 Is Watching (& Logging) Everything

If Edward Snowden's patriotic exposure of all things 'super secret surveillance state' in America were not enough, Newsweek reports that, as 10s of millions of hungry PC users download the free upgrade, Windows 10 is watching - and logging and sharing - everything users do... and we mean everything.


From Newsweek:
http://www.newsweek.com/windows-10-reco ... ove-358952
More than 14 million devices are already running Microsoft’s Windows 10 after its global launch on Wednesday, but it’s unclear how many of their users read the company’s Privacy Policy and Service Agreement before downloading. Tucked away in the 45 pages’ worth of terms and conditions (effective August 1) is a substantial power grab: The company is collecting data on much of what you do while using its new software.

From the moment an account is created, Microsoft begins watching. The company saves customers’ basic information—name, contact details, passwords, demographic data and credit card specifics —but it also digs a bit deeper.

Other information Microsoft saves includes Bing search queries and conversations with the new digital personal assistant Cortana; contents of private communications such as email; websites and apps visited (including features accessed and length of time used); and contents of private folders. Furthermore, “your typed and handwritten words are collected,” the Privacy Statement says, which many online observers liken to a keylogger. Microsoft says they collect the information “to provide you a personalized user dictionary, help you type and write on your device with better character recognition, and provide you with text suggestions as you type or write.”


Congrats for your decision to install the newest spyware on your computer.....


All OS spy on you, Don't be fooled, even your TV reports you speech and pictures on new voice and camera activated TV's. If you want to opt out of all spy shit then move into a hermit cave . Shite, I know but that is the world now. Bastards that they are.
It's fairly straight forward, if you want to start it , press start. You can work out the rest of the controls for yourself !

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Re: Just upgraded to Windows 10

Postby tabbycat » 04 Aug 2015, 04:51

roseblood11 wrote:I really don't know, why I should update. My Windows 8.1 is running fine, so what would be the advantage of the new version? Edge instead of Internet Explorer? I'm using Firefox anyway... Cortana? That would be the first thing to switch off...

hey roseblood, am much of this persuasion myself. am still rocking vista while it is still being security updated. and only gave up xp last year because they stopped patching. am a pc minimalist, cheap and lowfi. if it works don't fix it.
but when vista is given up on i will go the open source route as mictester has suggested. am also going to ditch my mainstream email acount for something more anon and lowfi.

mictester wrote:It's trivially easy to install and configure, and works flawlessly with >95% hardware. If you have really unusual hardware, there's bound to be workarounds available on the 'net to get it working.

Linux has a smaller "footprint" than Windows, makes better use of your hardware (including proper networking - you'll immediately see a speed difference), and is virus-free. It costs nothing (except a little effort to learn slightly different (usually more correct) ways of doing things). There are a plethora of versions (called "distributions") and each will usually include a comprehensive suite of software.

The best versions for beginners are "Mint" and "Ubuntu". Mint is probably the easier of the two for a first-timer because it has everything installed from the beginning. Other options are "Puppy" for people with old, small hardware, "Fedora" if you want to be right on the cutting edge (and are prepared to run beta-test versions of software), and PCLinuxOS if you want everything on one DVD (get the "Full Monty" version)......

Most Linux installers give you the option of keeping your old Operating System - if you want - in parallel with your new OS. They will install a "boot menu" that allows you to choose OS at start-up. Be careful if you decide to keep Windoze on the same drive - it's fragile and easily broken! Actually - seriously - carefully read the installation instructions to avoid damage to Windoze if you have to have it.

Welcome to the world of Free, Open Source Software!

thanks for this info mictester. much appreciated.

re installing and setting up tech stuff, i have to admit that i don't know much and don't want to have to learn too much (life is too short and music gets my best) but it is something i will give serious consideration to, since you have said it isn't a total nightmare for the uninitiated. i've resisted to date partly out of lack of interest and partly as i felt linux was a niche for brainy pros.

re the virus-free bit, is that because of something fundamental in the nature of the linux system, or just because crims are currently only focusing their bugs on ms as most likely to yield best results?

btw can you install linux-mint totally anon or do they try to bloodsuck email, phone number, etc?
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Re: Just upgraded to Windows 10

Postby Blitz Krieg » 04 Aug 2015, 06:42

M-Audio and Presonus crap runs on Linux/Ubuntu ?

FL Studio will run on it?
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Re: Just upgraded to Windows 10

Postby mictester » 04 Aug 2015, 07:43

Ice-9 wrote:All OS spy on you, Don't be fooled, .


No.That's just another reason to use Open Source Software. Linux and BSD don't spy on you and have proper permissions structures to completely prevent malicious add-ons.
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Re: Just upgraded to Windows 10

Postby mictester » 04 Aug 2015, 07:50

tabbycat wrote:
re the virus-free bit, is that because of something fundamental in the nature of the linux system, or just because crims are currently only focusing their bugs on ms as most likely to yield best results?

btw can you install linux-mint totally anon or do they try to bloodsuck email, phone number, etc?


The "virus-free" bit is mostly because of the permissions structure. The virus writers would love to be able to get unfettered access to Linux systems - they could wreak even more havoc (particularly when you consider that almost all web servers, routers, switches, modems and the rest of the IP infrastructure all run on Linux).

You can download and install Mint completely anonymously. They do request donations (if you want to) to help to keep development going, and they do get quite a few. Give it a go, and if you like it and it suits you, please consider giving the hard-working guys who built it enough for a beer or two!
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Re: Just upgraded to Windows 10

Postby mictester » 04 Aug 2015, 07:52

Blitz Krieg wrote:M-Audio and Presonus crap runs on Linux/Ubuntu ?

FL Studio will run on it?


These bits of software probably won't run directly on Linux. Their manufacturers should offer Linux versions of their software (many big companies are starting to do this). If they don't you can probably run them using a "compatibility layer" like WINE.
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Re: Just upgraded to Windows 10

Postby DrNomis » 04 Aug 2015, 11:18

bajaman wrote:One word - DON'T :wink:
I found out the hard way - just got it working properly (I hope) after many frustrating hours. I considered rolling back to windows 7 at one stage, but Microsoft lied when they said this was possible - i got the message sorry but we cannot take you back to Windows 7 because files are missing (or words to that effect), so I had to persevere with Windows 10. Some of my problems included my dvd rom drive totally disappearing from the device manager :twisted: my anti virus program completely disappeared and I had a dog of a job getting it to work in Windows 10 when i reinstalled it. the machine must have shut down and restarted at least 20 times before I was happy with it. And then there is that f***ing awful excuse for a start menu - half of my programs were totally missing from it - why? go figure :scratch:
i downloaded a nice little program called Classic Shell and now i have my Windows 7 start menu and ALL my programs back in it!
Only had it running today so too early to tell BUT no walk in the park installing it that is for sure!




That's unusual, getting Windows 10 to run on my new Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop was relatively painless, I found that I had no issues with getting all my music-making software to run on it as they all ran well on Windows 8.1, I didn't like Windows 8's start menu so that's what made me decide to upgrade to Windows 10, first I did the upgrade to Windows 10 then I downloaded the installation media tool so I could use it to create a Windows 10 ISO file, I then made a Windows 10 installation disc, did a clean install after backing up my wanted data, then I downloaded CCleaner to get rid of the windows.old folder, I found that doing a complete clean install of Windows 10 seems to work better than simply letting Microsoft install it onto a previous OS install.... :thumbsup


I'm logged onto FSB with my Dell Inspiron 15 laptop at the moment and so far Windows 10 is running great for me, for those of you having some issues with Windows 10, just remember that is is early days for this OS, Microsoft will be issuing updates and fixes for it as well as additional stuff to add features, I'm prepared to give Windows 10 a good go..... :thumbsup


I'm pretty surprised at how fast and zippy Windows 10 is.....all in all, I'm really liking it..... :thumbsup
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Re: Just upgraded to Windows 10

Postby DrNomis » 04 Aug 2015, 11:40

Ice-9 wrote:
modman wrote:Forum is really running on linux on many levels, way down to the hosting servers.
Why don't you give it a try, it's free, virusproof and open source.
http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop


Coz there is no Cubase for Linux so my music DAW is windows, but hell I have set up plenty Linux servers and it rocks for that.

AnyHoo, I'm on Windows 10 now for my laptop and it is running really well although a few probs with Cubase timing which I expect an update will follow soon.

Other issues with 10,
1. automatic updates can't be turned off and Microsoft decided they can update 3rd party drivers with whatever they decide is better, yes you can then uninstall these drivers but windows puts them back. .... Bad , this needs addressing.
2. Issues with Cubase, I expect a quick fix for this though.
3. The latest Quicktime is not compatible and the older version has security issues. Ok nobody really wants to use Quicktime on a pc but some programs need this. Of course these programs should be modified to use a superior format now.

Overall I like Windows 10, and it's a free upgrade if you have windows 7 or 8.1

My advice to anyone who wants a clean install, do the upgade to your existing windows first, you then need to extract the new product key as it will change from your original 7or8.1 key, use Magical jelly bean keyfinder for this. Download the full ISO disk for windows 10 by using the 'Media creation App' then install as any other windows distro.



I did the upgrade/product key extraction/iso creation/clean install and Windows 10 seems to be running great on my laptop, relatively few issues so far.... :thumbsup
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Re: Just upgraded to Windows 10

Postby tabbycat » 05 Aug 2015, 00:34

mictester wrote:The "virus-free" bit is mostly because of the permissions structure. The virus writers would love to be able to get unfettered access to Linux systems - they could wreak even more havoc (particularly when you consider that almost all web servers, routers, switches, modems and the rest of the IP infrastructure all run on Linux).

You can download and install Mint completely anonymously. They do request donations (if you want to) to help to keep development going, and they do get quite a few. Give it a go, and if you like it and it suits you, please consider giving the hard-working guys who built it enough for a beer or two!

many thanks for the clarification, mictester. it's good to be informed about the basics clear and simple from someone here who knows. i read stuff on geek boards about competing os's but either it's boffins squabbling about things i don't understand in terms i don't understand, or it's hopelessly partisan, i.e. mac mob v ms mob, objectivity not permitted.
but on your recommendation when i need to replace vista i will definitely try linux-mint first.

re the donation, i would be very happy to. paying a fair price for a good thing up front is cool. it's when you pay a fair price and then discover years later that the little monkeys still have their fingers in the till. very uncool. but very common.
re the privacy thing, cash is anonymous and for spending, private contact details are for keeping private and under my control. at least that's how i feel about it.

also feel that the whole spirit of open-source is more in line with my broader political agenda. decentralise and democratise, etc. power to the people. i like that aspect to it. but will be interesting to see what happens when uptake of os broadens. big corporations and government not likely to sit back and watch profits and control drained away from them.
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Re: Just upgraded to Windows 10

Postby roseblood11 » 05 Aug 2015, 01:03

I#d like to use open source software, but there's so much missing:
What could really replace Cubase? Lightroom? Capture One? Papyrus Author? Dragon Naturally Speaking?
Nothing, and these are the programs that I use 99.9% of the time...
Did anybody say "Audacity, Darktable, Open Office"? Ouch...
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Re: Just upgraded to Windows 10

Postby mictester » 05 Aug 2015, 07:08

"Naturally Speaking" was originally developed using Mandrake Linux (a defunct distribution!). The codebase was released to the OS community, and it's a work in progress at the moment. I can't recall the name of it, but I saw it in use recently, and seemed at least as good as the old Windoze programme.
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Re: Just upgraded to Windows 10

Postby mictester » 05 Aug 2015, 07:18

tabbycat wrote:
also feel that the whole spirit of open-source is more in line with my broader political agenda. decentralise and democratise, etc. power to the people. i like that aspect to it. but will be interesting to see what happens when uptake of os broadens. big corporations and government not likely to sit back and watch profits and control drained away from them.


Politically speaking, FOSS accords with my beliefs and preferences, too. It just makes good sense, and democratises computing. Everyone can afford FOSS!

The corporates who want to use Linux mostly are already. Many Governments are making the move too - they don't want the deliberate back-doors in M$-ware to be exploited by the NSA!

One major banking group replaced their 400 Windoze servers around the world with just 12 Red hat Linux ones. They replaced their 2100 IT support staff with just 40 (highly paid, highly skilled) Linux-trained administrators. They had a special, badged "corporate desktop" spin of a well-known Linux distribution installed to all their desktop and laptop machines throughout the world. All administration is done from their head office, and the conversion training was just 15 minutes per employee. Their savings have been spectacular!
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Re: Just upgraded to Windows 10

Postby Ice-9 » 05 Aug 2015, 11:14

mictester wrote:
tabbycat wrote:
also feel that the whole spirit of open-source is more in line with my broader political agenda. decentralise and democratise, etc. power to the people. i like that aspect to it. but will be interesting to see what happens when uptake of os broadens. big corporations and government not likely to sit back and watch profits and control drained away from them.


Politically speaking, FOSS accords with my beliefs and preferences, too. It just makes good sense, and democratises computing. Everyone can afford FOSS!

The corporates who want to use Linux mostly are already. Many Governments are making the move too - they don't want the deliberate back-doors in M$-ware to be exploited by the NSA!

One major banking group replaced their 400 Windoze servers around the world with just 12 Red hat Linux ones. They replaced their 2100 IT support staff with just 40 (highly paid, highly skilled) Linux-trained administrators. They had a special, badged "corporate desktop" spin of a well-known Linux distribution installed to all their desktop and laptop machines throughout the world. All administration is done from their head office, and the conversion training was just 15 minutes per employee. Their savings have been spectacular!


So 2060 people lost jobs then :hmmm: That leaves money in the purse to pay the banker a bigger bonus then
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Re: Just upgraded to Windows 10

Postby mictester » 05 Aug 2015, 13:00

Yep, but those 2000+ people were "Windows Certified", so they're certain to get work elsewhere! There are still a lot of foolish companies, corporations and institutions that use M$-junkware.

Warning to all system administrators: Get your Red Hat certification ASAP. The sooner you do, the more you'll earn. However, unlike the virtually worthless M$ "certification", the Linux ones actually require real learning (not rote repetition) and an actual understanding of the underlying principles. They take a bit of effort, but are well worthwhile.

As far as the bankers are concerned, they'll never be out of pocket!
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Re: Just upgraded to Windows 10

Postby Ice-9 » 05 Aug 2015, 20:26

mictester wrote:Yep, but those 2000+ people were "Windows Certified", so they're certain to get work elsewhere! There are still a lot of foolish companies, corporations and institutions that use M$-junkware.

Warning to all system administrators: Get your Red Hat certification ASAP. The sooner you do, the more you'll earn. However, unlike the virtually worthless M$ "certification", the Linux ones actually require real learning (not rote repetition) and an actual understanding of the underlying principles. They take a bit of effort, but are well worthwhile.

As far as the bankers are concerned, they'll never be out of pocket!


The only Linux I have really spent any time with is Debian Server which only has a command line interface, For anyone interested in a career in server tech then I agree with mictester, get accredited with a Linux platform.
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Re: Just upgraded to Windows 10

Postby chicago_mike » 05 Aug 2015, 21:02

Xamarin can run on linux as well right? I like the C# language. I think even MPLab runs on linux.
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Re: Just upgraded to Windows 10

Postby CHEEZOR » 07 Aug 2015, 02:19

modman wrote:Forum is really running on linux on many levels, way down to the hosting servers.
Why don't you give it a try, it's free, virusproof and open source.
http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop

If by "virus-proof," you mean "almost nobody tries to hack it," then yes. I think Linux is slightly more secure than Windows in some ways, but the reality is that 99% of exploiters are targeting Windows instead of Linux. There is your safety. Not necessarily in the actual OS. :D
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Re: Just upgraded to Windows 10

Postby mictester » 07 Aug 2015, 13:44

CHEEZOR wrote: If by "virus-proof," you mean "almost nobody tries to hack it," then yes. I think Linux is slightly more secure than Windows in some ways, but the reality is that 99% of exploiters are targeting Windows instead of Linux. There is your safety. Not necessarily in the actual OS. :D


Sorry - you're wrong. Bill Braindead Gates took several really stupid design decisions in the late 80s that still linger through to today. They were for "ease of use", but compromised any possible chance of security on a Windows computer. If you have physical access to the computer, unrestricted access is trivially attained (a few key combinations - look it up if you're interested). If you can only gain access over a network (or the interweb) then it's very slightly harder, but there are several deliberate vulnerabilities that are well-known....

Linux (and BSD) is based on Unix. Networking was built-in from the start (not a bolted-on afterthought), and security was baked-in right from the get-go. The permissions structure goes most of the way to ensuring it's pretty invulnerable (there aren't any viruses or other malware that can guess a root password!), and the two or three "proof of concept" attempts at malware actually required the sysadmin to manually install the code! Even then you could only corrupt one user partition - the overall system remained secure and stable!

Here's a clue for you: why do all the major commerce websites (like Amazon, Ebay and so on) use only Linux? Why do all the major banks, governments and institutions run Linux? Why is Windows banned from Nuclear Power sites? Why do you think most major Universities only use and teach Linux? Most of all - why do you think Microshaft are "giving away" their latest Windoze disaster?
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Re: Just upgraded to Windows 10

Postby CHEEZOR » 07 Aug 2015, 18:32

mictester wrote:
CHEEZOR wrote: If by "virus-proof," you mean "almost nobody tries to hack it," then yes. I think Linux is slightly more secure than Windows in some ways, but the reality is that 99% of exploiters are targeting Windows instead of Linux. There is your safety. Not necessarily in the actual OS. :D


Sorry - you're wrong. Bill Braindead Gates took several really stupid design decisions in the late 80s that still linger through to today. They were for "ease of use", but compromised any possible chance of security on a Windows computer. If you have physical access to the computer, unrestricted access is trivially attained (a few key combinations - look it up if you're interested). If you can only gain access over a network (or the interweb) then it's very slightly harder, but there are several deliberate vulnerabilities that are well-known....

Linux (and BSD) is based on Unix. Networking was built-in from the start (not a bolted-on afterthought), and security was baked-in right from the get-go. The permissions structure goes most of the way to ensuring it's pretty invulnerable (there aren't any viruses or other malware that can guess a root password!), and the two or three "proof of concept" attempts at malware actually required the sysadmin to manually install the code! Even then you could only corrupt one user partition - the overall system remained secure and stable!

Here's a clue for you: why do all the major commerce websites (like Amazon, Ebay and so on) use only Linux? Why do all the major banks, governments and institutions run Linux? Why is Windows banned from Nuclear Power sites? Why do you think most major Universities only use and teach Linux? Most of all - why do you think Microshaft are "giving away" their latest Windoze disaster?

A google search for "is linux more secure than windows" would tend to disagree with you. I read through the top 4 resulting pages and only one of them thought that Linux was unarguably more secure and the only architecture reason stated was the privilege system. The other reasons were the things I mentioned about larger user base, less computer savvy user base, etc... The other sites all stated it was about the same. I believe the U.S. government has a security classification system for ranking operating systems with letters to denote the classifications, i.e. Class A is more secure than Class B. I'm pretty sure that Linux and Windows both fall into Class C in their classification system (which is not that secure).

I work in Silicon Valley in the high tech industry. More and more companies are converting over to Windows. Most large companies that are on Linux have been on Linux since before Windows XP. Back in those days Linux was WAY more stable than Windows. Now, its kind of a toss up in that respect. It's a huge task to convert your company from one OS to another so they stay on Linux. At my current job our company is in the middle of converting from Linux to Windows for all our servers and its not an easy task. It would be MUCH harder for a company the size of Ebay to make the switch.

And yes, if you have physical access to ANY machine, regardless of OS, it will be compromised. I have done it personally for Windows and my co-worker has done it for Linux. As for gaining access over the internet, depending on how determined someone is, I bet either OS could be compromised, although, I have less experience in that realm.

As for universities, I think they want students to learn Unix/Linux because a lot of them might not have exposure to it otherwise and it is a necessary skill in the tech industry.

Again, I'm not saying Windows is a security power house. I'm just saying that Linux is not outrageously more secure than Windows.
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Re: Just upgraded to Windows 10

Postby tabbycat » 07 Aug 2015, 22:22

CHEEZOR wrote:I'm not saying Windows is a security power house. I'm just saying that Linux is not outrageously more secure than Windows.

linux is outrageously more affordable than windows though.

so if it there are negligible security differences between them (most people's primary concern i would imagine), i would expect people who are on severely restricted incomes (those in huge tech-savvy but economically-pressured developing nations, those on low incomes everywhere, those unemployed everywhere, etc) and also those who could afford to pay but would just rather spend their money elsewhere (all security and stability concerns being equal as you have suggested), to opt for linux rather than stump up an additional $150 (or whatever it is) for a similar functionally near-identical equivalent.

people with secure jobs and disposable income can afford to shop for software like they shop for shoes, cars, tvs, etc; be fussy about colour, style, this looks old-fashioned, the cool people aren't wearing or using that, etc.
but i have a feeling that globally speaking, these people are probably in the minority, and for the rest of the world who worry on a daily or hourly basis about job security, paying the rent, eating enough, etc, the criteria comes down to 'does it work well and is it secure?'. anything free that ticks both those boxes is always going to win out.

i know nothing about operating systems other than i try to use the most secure and stable system i can understand and afford. but poverty globally, and restriced-income personally, are both things i have a decent understanding of.

looking to the future (10-20 years), financially-speaking, i think things for most people globally are going to get worse not better. the concept of unlimited growth was always doomed to eventually reveal iteself for the dodgy pyramid scheme it is. currently we are in a period of collective international denial. governments globally are playing smoke and mirrors with qe and book-fiddling and bail-outs, etc, to avoid being the one who finally has to confront that reality. but somewhere a house is on fire.

so while ten or twenty years ago it made market sense for hardware and software manufacturers to compete on the superficial style-gimmick level, for the next ten and twenty years my understanding is that 'consumers-users' of these same goods and services are just not going to have the same level of disposable income to indulge in the trivial stuff. that 'prepared to pay a lot more for superficial style and gimmicks' concerned market will become a small and exclusive elite, not the mass-market as it has been in recent memory.

there will be free, free-plus, and exclusive. most will be on free.

another perspective.
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