should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.....

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should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.....

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 01 Dec 2016, 01:28

sent the following to info@tonereport.com earlier:

"so my bro digi2t from diystompboxes.com sends me this:

http://www.magazine.tonereport.com/mag/ ... 102477/p22

this is MY circuit down to the very values. it was released as a diy project with no commercial use whatsoever allowed 3 years ago on diystompboxes and ....com. this is easily verifiable. a quick google search for "suzy q overdrive" or "suzy q harmonic clipper" will find the layout, the veros, the schematics,even the build history and experimentation along the way.
it is even featured on tagboard effects.com under pjp in their popular brands section with my blessing.
so i see two issues. one, i feel my design and efforts, as well as the guys who helped me like dino tsiptsis and gus smalley and mark hammer and rg keen should get some kind of mention. the cat submitting my work is a plagiarist, and did so with no permission as i assume yours is a commercial venture.
i would appreciate an apology, proper annotations of the circuit and history be applied to your publication at the least. attached will be the original schematic plagiarized and the vero layout.
this is kinda uncool, and not how we do stuff in the diy realm.
i do not mind people building the circuit or using it.
i DO mind not being given due credit when someone blatantly copies my work.
would appreciate your thoughts on this matter.
thanks
jimi pocius/ aka jimi photon/pinkjimiphoton"

SPTWPJP SUZY Q - YouTube
Inline image 2▶ 18:22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RJuIm4F6ig
Feb 4, 2013 - Uploaded by Jimi Photon
Jimi Photon ... the suzy q, a "tuck n roll" era classic amp in a box.. perfect for the old "custom" (ahem!) sound ...





dick wagner's suzy-q - YouTube
Inline image 1▶ 3:15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evqTyXKRjSE
Mar 2, 2013 - Uploaded by Jimi Photon
"suzy-q" pedal, the Maestro of Rock edition with tone control for the legend among legends, Mr. Dick Wagner ...

https://www.google.com/search?q=jimi+ph ... 8&oe=utf-8

i mean, all he did was take the buffer off the thing. says he created it and drew it up and all this other shit. wtf?

i don't mind peeps building my stuff... glad to see it happen... but it says right on the schematic the guy ripped off NO COMMERCIAL USE

seems to me tone report weekly is a commercial venture.

perhaps if they gave some credit, rather than this kinda scumbaggery shit, i wouldn't be so pissy.

so now my design has become Yet Another Tube Screamer i guess.


way to go, tone report. way to go.


my final schematic:

Image

the one tone report just posted, minus the input buffer. look at the component values, the only thing he did was change the transistors

Image

http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/201 ... -mkii.html

Image
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Re: should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.

Postby Dirk_Hendrik » 01 Dec 2016, 09:00

Yes. Be pissed. You have the full right to be.
Sorry. Plain out of planes.

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Re: should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.

Postby PMowdes » 01 Dec 2016, 10:57

Just plain out of order. I've enjoyed making your photonic jerc and intend to try some of your other layouts. It's people like you that enrich this community, the least they could do is give you a nod or better have asked your permission in the first place.
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Re: should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.

Postby Dirk_Hendrik » 01 Dec 2016, 14:42

Sorry. Plain out of planes.

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Re: should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.

Postby karul » 01 Dec 2016, 15:38

pinkjimiphoton wrote:seems to me tone report weekly is a commercial venture


They are. It's free weekly magazine, but they are published by (c) 2013 Stomp Box Music, LLC, which is Categorized under Musical Instruments Dealers.

They are located in Portland, OR. Same as Pro guitar shop.
Aaron Miller is owner of Pro Guitar Shop, and CEO of Tone Report.

http://www.manta.com/c/mr5z5c5/stompbox-music-company
http://www.manta.com/c/mm8v2r2/pro-guitar-shop

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You have all the rights to be pissed. And beyond.
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Re: should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.

Postby ~arph » 01 Dec 2016, 16:06

Bit tricky this one.

Certainly looks a lot like the core of the Suzie Q. But then again, the core of the suzie q looks a lot like the K200 fuzz circuit. And if he did what digi2t did, adjusting the resistors to match with 9v. You get 90% there. Yes there are some suspicious pointers that look like they were taken from your design, like the 2k2 in the gain control and the 39n., snubber caps and circuit name of course.

But there are more differences than just the transistors and the input section.
Rearranged the gain pot and the 2k2. A different output section. Different pot values. Bleeder cap before the output buffer.

I think it differs enough for him to call it his own design based on the Kustom fuzz circuit (which it is). Yes he may have done that intentional just so it does not match up 100% with your circuit, which also means he does not feel he needs to credit you. He is definitely not using your schematic for commercial use. Not the exact circuit and not the exact image.

As for credits, yes it would be nice of him, but it would also be nice if you credited Kustom on your schematic/vero. He drew inspiration from your circuit, you drew inspiration from the Kustom fuzz circuit. Same thing.
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Re: should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 01 Dec 2016, 17:26

hi arph,
yeah, but the diff is i never said it was anything but what it was. some of the layouts etc with the project clearly state kustom harmonic clipper, and the threads here and on diy were all about adapting the clipper circuit to a stompbox.
i'm more pissed off that dino and gus and deadbutpicky were also unmentioned when it's obvious that the lion's share of the circuit is the adapataion we had worked up.
i mean, most of it is identical. he left off the input buffer and modified the output buffer, but in the article he talks all this shit about people doing all the hard work..

and all he did was misappropriate it. they are a commercial venture, and have no right publishing the design without credit to where the idea came from in the first place. the magazine may be free, but they are making bank off the advertisements, as well as selling a lot of pedals with their main business.

pretty fucked up in my opinion. dino''s too, as he was the one that caught it. i mean, that circuit has been all over the place for 3 years... youtube, here, diy, tagboard, facebook etc... so yeah, i think it's pretty lame. the guy alludes to others coming up with it, but no credit given?

i'd contact his ass on facebook, but am currently banned there for stating the obvious honestly about something.... 15 days to go on a 30 day ban.

all i can say is this is bullshit. it's not quite the same as taking a tube screamer and changing a couple components like so so so many have done. completely independent circuit. to me, it speaks volumes of the integrity of the guy that swiped the circuit, and the guys who published it.

when we worked it up, it was a DIY only project. i gave it to the damn world as a diy project, and every aspect along the way it was clearly marked commercial use prohibited.

they're just screwing one of us little guys cuz they feel they can, apparently.

i'm gonna ride it out for a day or two and see if i get a response. if not, i will contact my lawyer and see what he thinks of the situation.
when we worked this up, we gave the initial credit to kustom (bud ross) i never claimed it was an original circuit. and by the time we breadboarded and vero'd and cobbled it into fruition, much of the circuit was changed.

these guys didn't even change the damn values of the caps or resistors even. pretty fucking lame.

thanks to all for the support. spread the word. if ya feel its worthy, contact them yourselves. cuz if they're gonna rip me off, you may well be next.

peace and thanks to all
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Re: should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 01 Dec 2016, 19:14

if ya look at the original clipper, here, Image
that dino worked up,
and compare it to the original kustom/ross schematic

Image

and then compare what me and dino worked up with what tone report posted, you can see pretty easily they adapted it from OUR circuit, not the original.
look at the values of the components and the components added etc.
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Re: should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 01 Dec 2016, 21:13

i sent them this just now. no reply yet to yesterday's email.

"to info, Dino:
please compare the schematics of my suzy q harmonic clipper released in jan of 2013 and the schematic nick published. look at the values used. then look at the original values. nick used a duende boost from tim escobedo. he CITED tim and the circuit he used.
we used the boost section of a knight fuzz on the original. but that is to boost the low output of the clipper circuit.
i also opted to add an input buffer created by my friend Dave Fox from foxrocks to the suzy q. it's only function is to make the unit interact well with wahs. i opted to make it a gain stage instead of a simple buffer cuz a properly overdriven kustom has a fair amount of transistor clipping beFORE the clipper.
but the guts of the circuit. and what give it it's heart and soul are the parts circled. that's where the tone comes from. the mosfets are part of the equation, like using tubes to power a circuit. but most of the tone, the part that matters, the filtering and clipping come from the choice of peripherals to support the main characters. the amplifiers (transistors/mosfets etc). the tone stack as it were of capacitors and resistors are what give circuits their charcacteristic tone. whether in a fender bassman or a plexi marshall, nearly identical circuits with very similar sounds. why? cuz the components are similar.
in the case of the circuit in question, your guy didn't adapt the values of the actual circuit.
he adapted my adaptation of it, and to the letter with the exact same values i published 3 years ago on the project that several of us worked up.
if nick's circuit was based on the kustom one and arrived at independently, i'd say huzzah for him.
but the odds of using the exact topography right down to resistor and cap values in the part of the circuit that creates the actual tone amplified by the escobedo duende boost he tacked on the end of it, it becomes pretty obvious imho
whom's circuit he copied. my circuit was an adaptation of bud ross's patented harmonic clipper. most of the values of the circuit and it's actual topography were changed while developing this. the values are not in the original schematic, in particular the caps responsible for the tone of the circuit. the values displayed in your publication were not based on kustom, they were based on jimi photon and dino tsiptsis in particular.
a simple google search for kustom harmonic clipper, harmonic clipper, suzy q harmonic clipper etc etc proves we released this as a diy only project with no commercial use.

i would expect at the least an apology, and proper attribution given for this unique and toneful circuit that WE created.
i would anticipate an honorable response to this.
thanks for your attention to this matter.
jimi pocius/jimi photon/pinkjimiphoton"


k200b schem

Image

fuzz circuit isolated

Image

suzy q

Image

tonereport schematic

Image
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Re: should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.

Postby Frank_NH » 01 Dec 2016, 21:19

I'm a mere hobbyist pedal guy, but Jimi's contributions to the DIY scene are well established. Thanks for all you have contributed over the years, Jimi. :applause:

Now, there's something weird to me about the Nick Kula schematic. What is the J201 doing with no source resistor? Certainly not self biasing (you need to make the gate negative wrt ground to do that i.e. with another voltage source). That is quite different than the BJT gain stage in Jimi's circuit. I also didn't see anything like it in original Kustom circuit. :scratch:
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Re: should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 01 Dec 2016, 22:06

hi frank, if ya look at they yellow box on his schematic, and look at the yellow box on mine, you will see they are identical right down to the low gain mosfets. i think the rev b schem i grapbbed has a mistake on it. i'd have to check... but look at the values., identical.

then look at the values posted by nick. identical.

look at the kustom schem and snippet. not the same circuit. the voicing is different.

but nick's is identical to mine. IDENTICAL. if he had adapted the original schem as he claimed, wouldn't he be using the original cap values, not my modified ones?

at the end of the circuit we both used different boosts. he used tim escobedo's duende boost, i opted for the boost from a knight fuzz.

i also added in an input buffer/boost to the final suzy q to give more options and make it play better with a wah before it in the chain.

the working guts, in the yellow boxes, are identical. on the second stage he changed my low pass filtering slightly with the 1m and 10pf components but that's it.
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Re: should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 01 Dec 2016, 23:03

i just heard back from tone report. much respect, and classy guys to boot. i am gonna ask them to just give us a small ad for ARON'S forum with a nod to the work we did to create this pedal.
so, see, things can work out, and it was in fact an oversight and mistake which i can totally understand and forgive with zero bad vibes at all.

i've just learned to not dance around too much when issues arrive. brutally f'n honest has it's place. good to know tone report shares our viewpoint... well, mine, at least. read:

Tone Report Weekly

4:52 PM (6 minutes ago)

to me, Dino
Jimi,

Howdy Reverend Pinkerton :)

I spoke with Nicolas Kula (the builder and writer of the article) and he sends his apologies for the oversight.
He was under the impression that if the original schematic was not use and he created his own that the infringement didn't apply.
Me, Myself… I am strictly the talking head for TRW and don't know a thing about building pedals but Credit should be given in these matters.

With that said, the last thing we want to do is rile up the good people of the community and will follow your lead and help however we can.

What would you like to see from us?
I would be happy to run a credit in the next issue but I'm afraid it really won't stand out, given that it will be in the Table of Contents.
Would you like a FREE AD in the magazine?

Let me know your wishes and I will make it happen.
No harm was meant and we hope this hasn't cost you any revenue.

Sincerely,

Tom Keithly
TONE REPORT WEEKLY
Email: tom@tonereport.com
Phone:
Skype: thomkeithly
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Re: should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 01 Dec 2016, 23:27

my reply to tom at tone report. nice to know they have integrity and support us. ;)

Jimi Photon <phatjbp>

5:24 PM (0 minutes ago)

to Tone, Dino
hi tom,
thanks so much for the kind and speedy reply.
tell nick it's no big deal, but i would prefer if it's something we worked on if we were given due credit for it.
in this case, the original k200b fuzz is substantially different from the one i worked up in component values.
nick's must have been based on our schematic
we are really glad to see this great sounding circuit and it's variants get out there to the people, i was just kinda
freaked we weren't mentioned. nick's is a subtly different approach to the boosting from ours, but that's hip.
if you guys could just be so kind as to please cite Dino Tsiptsis and Jimi Photon for their efforts to create this great sounding little circuit in the next issue, that would be great. if you could also mention aron nelson's most excellent diystompboxes.com/forum, that would also be great.
i personally, tho very flattered, don't need an ad, but i thank you. i am no longer actively in the pedal mongering business, tho from time to time i do release something i cobble together.
i just want it clearly known that it is based on our circuit, developed at diystompboxes.com forum and that it is for diy strictly non-commercial use.
in this case i give my blessing, and i hope it becomes a popular project for people to have fun building.
thank you also for the patience, i tend to get to the point since a stroke last year, and i apologize for any apparent testyness. most un-dude like. mah bad, dude ;)
so if you can just give us props wherever that would be awesome. tell nick next time to change the .039's to .033's instead. <g>
peace and brightest blessings to you and yours and the entire staff as well
namaste

jimi

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Re: should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.

Postby deltafred » 02 Dec 2016, 00:07

Good to see you got it sorted out Jimi. :applause:
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Re: should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.

Postby ~arph » 02 Dec 2016, 10:16

Good to see it sorted :applause: Nice to see Nicks reasoning too, just as I thought.
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Re: should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 02 Dec 2016, 14:42

they earned massive respect from me.

yeah, i told nick next time to change some of the cap values a dolt like me won't recognize the circuit then ;)
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Re: should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.

Postby charliewired » 15 Dec 2016, 23:37

Fantastic outcome! and that they were boss dudes about it..
more people will build your design now, and some free press for the forum… couldn't be better,
Peace Love and Solder
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Re: should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 16 Dec 2016, 22:21

well, so far, i have seen nothing in their publication indicating anything.
to be fair, they did offer an ad. but that would be something i suspect i'd have to come up with somewhere. or other.
looks like standard SSDD to me.
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Re: should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.

Postby tabbycat » 07 Jan 2017, 16:43

re "should i be pissed?"

you should be pissed on by 72 virgins, Jimmy. or a round hundred? why stand on mathematical ceremony when you're having a good time.

whatever your dispute with the mag, i hope you have a mighty and stupendous new year. stay god-like, Jimi Photon!
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"ni dieu ni maître" (anarchist slogan).
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Re: should i be pissed? would you? tone report published my.

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 07 Jan 2017, 18:28

yeah thanks tabby <3 salaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam,.....
but i'm just a silly picayune human, standing on the shoulders of true giants.

i suppose i should contact them with the obligatory "what the fuck dude"... i mean, they said they copied the kustom harmonic clipper, but they used all my schematic... which is most certainly NOT the kustom and ultimately barely related to it.

kinda fucked up.

if anyone feels its fucked up, please let THEM know. me? i have pretty much moved on.

happy new years to all, stay tuned, i have a new octave fuzz almost done, tracks the whole neck, uses shit leaky ge's.
ya crank your guitar and it's a searing fuzz with ridiculous sustain that SOUNDS fuzzy.

turn your guitar down and it sounds like you're playing fuzz harmonics everywhere. it's fuckin' hip.

was one of the projects i was working up a couple years ago, and never finished... tho i vero'd it. go figure. i added some mods and am presently trying to work out what the hell i did... there's shit soldered on both sides of the vero and it is TITE with a LOT of electros...

but what a fuckin sound.... i have most of a schematic together, but i wanna verify it before i lay it on everyone.

anyways... onwards and upwards, peace!
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