building a (yet another) tube-sound overdrive

Stompboxes circuits published in magazines, books or on DIY electronics websites.
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billonious
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Post by billonious »

There is no magical circuitry/components in this circuit, but a lot of reseaching for technics, reading articles, combining ideas, numerous simulations, tests on breadboard, listening and modifing. No magic fets/mosfets, exotic oil capacitors used. Just opamps, leds & common electrolytics.

this article at http://www.kennedyaudio.com/cansolid.htm was the first spark. It claims that half & soft sequentially clipping of the signal gives a modulated duty cycle, producing even order harmonics. By doing simulations on Tina at (it is software, not my girlfriend :P ), I noticed that duty cycle can change up to 5%, but the gain have to be very high, pushing opamps to rails, adding rude opamp's harmonics. To overcome this, I used asymetric clipping on each opamp instead of half-clipping to prevent from reaching the rails.

I thought to keep the circuitry of 2-3 oamps in series with low to moderate gain each, in order to avoid loading one opamp heavily (I really hate harmonics of overdriven opamps).

The second step was finding a way to slowly increase the gain to have enough range between slight-overdrive and heavy overdrive. A double (gang) potensiometer is not of my liking for some reasons. I used the gain-pot circuitry of Marshall stompboxes as a bedrock. A single pot that controls two opamps together.

Rolling-off the treble in each stage is very crucial to limit high-order harmonics.

TLC272 & TLC2262 were chosen because of low current consumption, low noise, high input impedance. Both are of CMOS technology, cheap enough. OP275 & OPA2604 sounded nice but demand more current.

The first two oamps mimic the soft, dynamic & asymetric clipping of two Class-A moderate gain tubes in series. The third low gain opamp mimics the hard symmetric clipping of the (current driven) power stage that takes over when is driven hard by the previous stages. Also, there is a some drastic filtering (33nF, 470nF) in the 3rd opamp to shape the spectrum.


The circuit gives a transparent clean sound at gain=0. Turning the gain pot to 3 o'clock gives a slighly compressed brown sound, like the 60's butique one. At 6 o'clock, gives low-crunchy chords and a light octave-up effect on solos. At 9 o'clock it is an heavy overdrive for 70's electric-blues soles, but notes are still dinstict. At full gain is a marshall-like heavy fat overdrive, with even harmonics make the sound thick & fat (but u can't play Slayer riffs :mrgreen:).
Generally, high order harmonics appears at maximum gain only, when some harsh is desireable to play metal stuff. In low to midle gain, higher harmonics are suppressed and the sound is sweet, warm, brown. Even harmonics are audible giving this octaveup-like singing tone at midle overdrive and this fat/thick at full overdrive. The sound is old fashioned in every gain step.

Circuit is still on breadboard. It is not finished. I haven't tried tone controls yet. There is also one more opamp that must be used somewhere (maybe as output buffer after tone controls, maybe as votage divider for steady 4.5v). When it will be completed, a perfboard could be done.

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Post by Greg »

That's an interesting circuit billonious.. lots of thought gone into it.
I'd love to hear a clip of where you're at.

I moved it to DIY Stompbox designs as it's really a new and complete design, even though you're still refining it.
Hopefully some ideas will come up from others that might help.
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Post by billonious »

a more clear schematic
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main. ... ewsIndex=1. This is why an EDIT button could be useful

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Post by DrNomis »

This is an interesting idea, would be interested in hearing a clip to hear what it actually sounds like.... :thumbsup
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Post by billonious »

Should I record from amplifier by a small videocamera or straight to the built-in card (but I don't have any speaker simulator)?

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Post by Dirk_Hendrik »

If you're working with dual opamps anyway what's keeping you from giving that last clipping stage a decent following buffer and make your output (and in a certain extend the clipping character of that last stage) independent from the following device in your signal chain?
Sorry. Plain out of planes.

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Post by billonious »

Dirk_Hendrik wrote:If you're working with dual opamps anyway what's keeping you from giving that last clipping stage a decent following buffer and make your output (and in a certain extend the clipping character of that last stage) independent from the following device in your signal chain?
that is what I will probably do, but I want to turn out with a treble/mid/bass stack (fender or marshall type) before outuput buffer or before hard-clipping stage. I am just too bored these sunny days to get stuck with soldering

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Post by teemuk »

For a much more accurate emulation of a tube PP power stage you could try something like this...
http://www.ssguitar.com/index.php?topic=1372.0
(See post #3)

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Post by billonious »

thank you, but I think I can't work it out, too complex circuit for my patience. A more basic way to emulate some of the rectifier's sag?

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Post by DrNomis »

billonious wrote:Should I record from amplifier by a small videocamera or straight to the built-in card (but I don't have any speaker simulator)?

I've got two approaches to this, I either go straight into my Soundcard's 1/4 inch line in socket and record the straight sound of a pedal without any speaker emulation, or I use my Zoom G2's built in speaker emulation, either way works for me, I use software such as my webcam's driver software, or Audacity to record sound files, sometimes I'll import the audio file into FL Studio and run the audio file through a mastering process... :)


A good idea is to be careful with setting your recording levels so that you get a good signal-to-noise ratio without clipping or excessive hissing or buzzing, I can't stress that enough..... :)


By signal-to-noise ratio, you want to maximise the difference between what you want to hear,i.e. whatever you're recording, and what you don't want to hear, i.e : mains hum,buzzing,hissing,clicks,pops and clipping..... :)
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Post by billonious »

teemuk wrote:For a much more accurate emulation of a tube PP power stage you could try something like this...
...
I found in the net an idea claiming to emulate rudely the sag of power supply. It uses two small value resistors in IC supply connections. The concept is presented in the schem (drawn by myself) below
https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/97/testhqi.jpg/

It claims that when input signal (Vin) decays, the supply current (Is) goes down too. Thus, voltage at the pins of each resistor R=47 Ohm goes down (Vr), increasing voltage of IC (Vic), affecting ouput headroom if it is at the rails. It could make a compression effect (and clipping too), as output volume gets lower when input voltage gets higher.

I built it, I simulated too, and this myth is busted. It doesn't work, because supply current seems to be constant.

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Post by Greg »

billonious wrote:
teemuk wrote:For a much more accurate emulation of a tube PP power stage you could try something like this...
...
I found in the net an idea claiming to emulate rudely the sag of power supply. It uses two small value resistors in IC supply connections. The concept is presented in the schem (drawn by myself) below
https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/97/testhqi.jpg/
It claims that when input signal (Vin) decays, the supply current (Is) goes down too. Thus, voltage at the pins of each resistor R=47 Ohm goes down (Vr), increasing voltage of IC (Vic), affecting ouput headroom if it is at the rails. It could make a compression effect (and clipping too), as output volume gets lower when input voltage gets higher.

I built it, I simulated too, and this myth is busted. It doesn't work, because supply current seems to be constant.
Sorry billonious.. your link was unclickable and too small to read.
I tried to edit it to work.. but I lost the thumbnail.

Dang.. it still doesn't work..
I'll just repost it for now.
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Post by teemuk »

The basic idea is correct: Sag indeed is the voltage drop created when current is drawn from power supply that has a high internal impedance. Since typical power supplies of OpAmps hardly have that, the 47R resistors simulate it.

BUT. Generic OpAmps drive only high impedance loads (typically well above 600 ohms) and hence draw only very little of current; even more, their outputs are often current-limited so they can usually only muster out some 40 milliamps or something along those lines - even to a short circuit. Not enough to cause sag with a 47R resistor on rails.

Things would be different with power amps supplying several amperes of current but hey, this circuit is about OpAmps so let's stick to that and make it work. Thus, obviously more internal impedance is needed: Now, throw in two 2K resistors instead of those pesky 47-ohm ones and on top of that make the OpAmp drive a 600 ohm load (instead of the usual loads that are in the range of several kilo-ohms). Now you get sag. Preferably you should also fit two 1u caps to filter the rail voltages a bit. Now the sagging becomes gradual as the caps run out of juice during extensive current draw. It's more like in a generic power supply now.

In the end, when you overdrive the circuit you get harsh OpAmp clipping that increases gradually due to power supply sag. In a proper design you can get a response that starts from clean and then gradually morphs into distortion. "Transparent" compression is something you won't be getting from this circuit. In tube power amps (and in my emulation scheme of such) that effect is caused by soft clipping, which is something this basic circuit won't do.

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Post by phatt »

Just a side note you probably need to do this to a *SS PowerAmp* to be Truely effective.

Just find the most basic of SS poweramps and add a light bulb to the Mains supply.
BTDT,, and it does a very good job of creating sag/compression.
You will need to use *Discretes* not Chip power amps as they (like Opamps)have toooooooo many current mirrors and tricks which will hinder your success.

If you can find *Lenard Audio Pages* he has a lot to say about creating saggy supplies with SS powerstages.
Sorry lost the link but he used to make some top line Valve Amps in the land of Auz.

For opamps,,, I agree with Teemu ,, try some where between 1k and 5k past that it just dies in the butt and renders it useless.
Phil.

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Post by billonious »


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Post by DrNomis »

billonious wrote:soundclips

low gain 1 http://www.aronnelson.com/DIYFiles/up/M ... w_gain.MP3
low gain 2 http://www.aronnelson.com/DIYFiles/up/M ... __gain.MP3
half gain http://www.aronnelson.com/DIYFiles/up/M ... e_gain.MP3
max drive http://www.aronnelson.com/DIYFiles/up/M ... l_gain.MP3

recorded by a handy camera from my 15w valvestate & PRS SE bridge pickup

Those clips sound cool, how do you manage to post them?, everytime I do a soundclip they always end up too big to post.... :)
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Post by Greg »

Sounds really good...
and a good range of distortion too !
Nice.
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Post by billonious »

DrNomis wrote:
billonious wrote:soundclips

Those clips sound cool, how do you manage to post them?, everytime I do a soundclip they always end up too big to post.... :)
Haaa, this was a brainteaser. I choped the initial mpeg in small tracks & stripped out the wav files from them with virtual dub (+ac3 +mpeg plugins). They are compressed to mp3 with Super (another freeware multipurpose mmedia software)

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Post by billonious »

I am thinking of inserting a optocoupler-type compressor in the end of the circuit to make a slight sag, like the circuit in the draft shema. The envelop 'd better be driven from input signal than from clipped.

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Post by billonious »

circuit updated. A basic tone control & an output buffer were put in. I used the wonderfully stupid ... tone control (how the h@ll is it named) to keep sound intact when pot is turned at max.

Schematic: http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main. ... 6.jpg.html

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