Speaker and Cab simulators

Stompboxes circuits published in magazines, books or on DIY electronics websites.
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rcustoms
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Post by rcustoms »

yeah mr phil your are right ,i upload the rest later ,please check this schematics , and tell me that is ok
DDC1.jpg
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Post by phatt »

Hi Rcustom,
Looking good.
You can make R9 a 100k pot and leave P2 as a preset trim pot.

This is up to the end user to decide as I have no way of knowing what comes before or after. If you are chasing some dynamics then adjust both to taste.

Some kind of tone control is still needed to extract a useful tone range.

The PhAbbTone circuit has a big deep notch at 400 hZ which works well in front,, but it works after as well but will become more harsh as distortion is increased.

As Always I say;;
Breadboard test EVERYTHING before you build because in the world of guitar tone everyone has a different idea of what is good. :blackeye

Phil.

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Post by phatt »

Oh yeah,,, You forgot to mark the bias rail on the bottom part of schematic.
Phil.

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Post by rcustoms »

fixed
ddc1.jpg
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Post by ddpawel »

Image

DOD Speaker Simulator from FX100 Integrated Tube Even Harmonic Overdrive and FX101 Grind Rectifying Overdrive.

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Post by rcustoms »

Mr phill I had to change the valve by a JFET emulation ,in my country is not easy to get transformers for valves, is not the same but I have no other option.
PHABB SCHEMATICS
Untitled-1.jpg
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Post by rcustoms »

dcc pcb
dcc.pdf
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Post by rcustoms »

please mr phil give name to the potentiometers in the phabb schema
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Post by phatt »

Hello RC,
You ask me to give a Name to pot's? Sorry chum but I have no idea what you mean? :scratch:

In my world I know that when you turn all the pots to 10 most equipment turns into S**t sound.
There is no mojo in names for a bloke like me...So You call them what you want. lol

IMO,,,,The low voltage Jfet trip is a joke chum,, sorry been there done that,,, what a sick joke :(:(:(

Never in a million resistors will you make inroads with fets.
Fets are very useful gadjets BUT NOT for driving HiZ Tone stacks.

And before the teckno maths freaks shout me down ,,, I've built the PhAbbTone with discrete fets from 40 volt rails and it is no match for
even a 741 opamp. As soon as the signal gets big it just dies in the ass and the whole thing turns into mud.
From 9VDC you have no chance driving (or worse ,picking up) a HiZ tone stack.

**If you can't use Valves then redesign the DDC ,,use 2 pairs of 1N4148 diodes as that will make it clip at lower levels.
Then plug guitar direct into tone like the original passive Phabbtone circuit**
you won't get the same sustain but it works well.

You can bootstrap Fets to get a very hi Z input but even running from 40 VDC,,,, still it falls apart when pushed.

If you MUSt use fets then use the mu amp setup to get max swing.
A Hi Z tone stack will suck the life out of a fet at 9VDC, whereas a mu amp at 40 VDC will at least work ok,, still it will likely be noisy. :(
easier to use an opamp.

Having said that **don't forget the KMG's mosfet circuits** which run from hi voltage will get very close to a valve equivalent. I've already considered using his brilliant ideas but having built the FPV with valves I hardly see the point in a whole new build that will just produce the same or similar result.

You can simply search here and you will find how to implement a simple 555 chip to get around 200VDC to drive the HV mosfets.
---
Some things I've picked over time
Understand how this game can lead to a lot of confusion.

In the old world of Valve Amps;
You simply send a Valve amp a bigger signal and they distorted more. (dist/comp,,,call what ever you want it amounts to roughly the same end result)
In the early days they simply used hotter Pu's or wound more wire onto PU's.

Then came pedals,,

Take the classic TS9 circuit and insert a compressor in front will reap good distortion and add more sustain.

***Take careful note of the last comments! Q/ What's the *common factor* that in the above 2 examples?**

Notice I said that bigger signal makes more distortion and sustain?

OK a valve preamp is capable of outputting quite large signal swings but if you do that in front of an old Fender Deluxe Valve powerstage and the volume is high then it's almost certain that the incoming signal will be bigger than the power stage is capable of reproducing.
Result= the classic Valve distortion.


Now take a TS9 idea (diode limiter) and *send it a really big signal* it will sustain simply because the input signal is bigger than the diodes limit circuit.
so big it takes forever to die out. Bar a few subtle aspects the basic result is the same.

The problem is that most TS9 type circuits don't ever have to deal with really big input signals because 9 out 10 times they are first inline.
So diode clippers will always be less than perfect.

Yes you can add a compressor in front of a diode clipper to get a little more sustain but if you care to do the homework you will realize that MOST compressors are trying to *turn up the gain* which of course ends up adding tons of unwanted noise and frankly most sound fake.


Took me some years to work out that all I needed to do was shove a really big signal into a very simple diode clipper circuit and you get a very realistic fully cranked Valve Amp replication.

ALL the rest is just simply EQ tricks.

As mentioned My PhAbb EQ in front of the DDC will sound more Marshally,,as the distortion goes up the treble gets wiped. Add it after and it lets more treble pass thru. Choice is up to you.

Be aware that if you do not breadboard test these circuits you will almost certainly end up in tears. :cry:
Good Guitar circuits take many prototypes. Building my circuit just because I say it works for me may not translate into tone heaven for you.
----

Somewhere on the net I once read a neat observation of classic Valve distortion which read thus;

""The classic distortion is half wave clip in preamps then into full wave limit/comp in power stage.""

Having spent years researching this stuff I tend to agree.

The Valve in the FPV does indeed add the classic half wave clip and the DDC just brings in the full wave limit (the rest is just EQ) which does a fairly good replication of the real deal.

Have fun,, Phil.

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Post by rcustoms »

i mean that in the phabb schematics p1,p2,p3 etc are ?gain? or vol? or freq?
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Post by rcustoms »

mr phill ,I better do with the right materials and your original version.
I very much appreciate that you share with all your knowledge,especially without going to specify mathematically what happens,I'm not saying that is not good to know ,but if it's good to have another point of view not not strictly mathematical.
sometimes the ear and experimentation have more in the final result. :applause:
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Post by phatt »

The first pot just controls the incoming signal. Think of it as Input Level Control (handy if you have guitars with very different pu outputs).
The second pot (R9 on schematic) is just how big you want to make the signal that enters the clipper stage.

**You set these stage gains up while in the proto stage to suit how you want it to work with the gear you have.
You can of course make all things adjustable but that just leads to a front panel with 35 knobs and you get lost in the maze so it's wise to keep the pot count low. :wink:

The crunch (P2) should be obvious,,, (high levels makes it distort no mater how low the level is set by previous controls).

Output level is ,,,,arrh??? :hmmm: Output level.

If you have not built a lot of gear from scratch then I Strongly Advise you to take it by steps.
Assuming you already have a working Amp then just build the tone circuit as stand alone device then invest in a bread board,,, hint.
That will allow you to get stuff up an running without wasting days and weeks on stuff that may only end up as land fill.

My Advice to folks is simple,,,,Don't build stuff you don't understand and/or can't fix or trouble shoot. :thumbsup
Hope it helps ,, Phil.

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Post by darthoverdrive »

phatt, could you go into more detail on your PhAbb EQ? I'm intrigurd. Maybe provide a schematic?

Guys, what are your opinions on running cab sims through guitar amps?

I've been unable to breadboard anything layely as the shop is in a bit of disarray. Maybe in a couple of weeks I'll get things straightened out. There are several circuits presented in this thread that I would like to try out.

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Post by rcustoms »

hi mr darthoverdrive ,I think that is a part of the basic arrangement of sansamp pedals(gt-2 and character series)to name a few.I agree with you i would like to fix one of then to go through guitar amps and equally through a mixing console,I find very interesting the different points of view ,we have seen here .
now I'm working on 2 of them ,and we will see what happens.
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Post by DrNomis »

Check out the speaker simulation section of the PAIA Stack-In-A-Box, here's the schematic:
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siabsch.pdf
PAIA Stack In A Box Schematic
(85.52 KiB) Downloaded 361 times
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Post by KMG »

Final board
Image
Boxed
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Image
Image

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Post by phatt »

darthoverdrive wrote:phatt, could you go into more detail on your PhAbb EQ? I'm intrigurd. Maybe provide a schematic?

Guys, what are your opinions on running cab sims through guitar amps?

I've been unable to breadboard anything layely as the shop is in a bit of disarray. Maybe in a couple of weeks I'll get things straightened out. There are several circuits presented in this thread that I would like to try out.
Hi darthoverdrive,
I've not read where anyone has been jailed for using an extra tone altering device. LOL.

I use my circuit live!!
Heck a lot cheaper than Exotic 60's era tone mojo Amps on Ebay,,, where the asking price can be over 10 G's. winky.

The *PhAbbTone* is a simple little circuit I stumbled upon some time back and it has not met equipment yet that it does not improve.
It was simply intended to add the *Missing mid cut* of all the famous tone circuits in a pedal styled circuit. The original circuits I built had NO active input and although there is more signal loss that in fact can be an advantage. The experts will preach treble loss is a crime but fear not as any loss is outside what is useful. Considering that 90% of notes played on guitar are under 1,000 CPS a little less treble wipes off some of the hash of hard distortion anyway.
Even after allowing for all the *Useful* harmonic stuff the treble loss is hardly worth doing the maths.

Thank *Dave Reeves* (HiWatt) for his brilliant tone circuit.
My only claim is that I had the good idea of creating a simple tone circuit that can be built as a pedal.

My mod;
I always disliked the way the treble controls over powered the other tone controls on these classic hiZ tone circuits.
**NONE of them can do a good/convincing Mid Notch cut**

With my circuit the MID is now the dominant control which has a lot more use for cleaning up the hash that comes from diode clippers.
Inserted in front of a TS9 you will be amazed at how mid really affects the Distortion.

The Mid can pull a 30dB notch cut at 400 hZ when turned down and has a dramatic impact on the tonal result.

The FPV is just the same thing but implementing the clever ideas from Mesa. Or how to intelligently mix opamps and Valves in the same circuit.
Those circuits are on the first page of this thread.
Have fun with it,, Phil.
Phil's simple tone circuit
Phil's simple tone circuit
Hi-ZPhAbbTone3-5.PNG (10.91 KiB) Viewed 3013 times
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Actually faster to  hand draw the copper
Actually faster to hand draw the copper
I've built a few of these
I've built a few of these

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Post by phatt »

DrNomis wrote:Check out the speaker simulation section of the PAIA Stack-In-A-Box, here's the schematic:
DrNormis,
Yes Without Question the StackinaBox will certainly Distort!
BUT I very much DOUBT the Stack in a box will have endless sustain.
Of course I reserve the right to be completely wrong as I've not built that one. :)

I've read that below about 100VDC triodes distort more but don't really sing well, and having tried a few experiments with the FPV I tend to agree with that observation.
If I find time I'll sim the tone shaping.
Phil.

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Post by phatt »

KMG wrote:Final board
Image
Boxed
Well You put my circuit boards to shame :oops:

You keep teasing me with your brilliant work [smilie=poke.gif]

Yes in the future I might just indulge in some of you ideas but meantime I'm having heaps of fun with my setup.
Phil.

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Post by tazwolf »

KMG! interesting! I just ordered parts to build your V30 sim, is this better? Can you give us more details?

/Taz

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