Pedals that sounds like amps

puppiesonacid · Post by **puppiesonacid** » 10 Apr 2008, 03:02

I've read into a lot on the runoffgroove site about how they model amps using fets. when thinking of an amp to model, how do you deduce what needs to be converted to what for use in a pedal? I want to understand this process, its intresting and seems pretty unique. Any info or tips would greatly be appreciated.

Thanks

MoreCowbell · Post by **MoreCowbell** » 10 Apr 2008, 06:04

Pedals don't sound like amps.

Some can give you some of a given amps "characteristics"...but thats all it is....simply giving a bit of the "flavor" of the amp. But "sound like an amp"..I have yet to hear it.

Just my opinion.... YMMV.

As far as the rest of the question, one of the designs on ROG outlines how to do it, at least in its "basic" form. Doug Hammond would also be a good person to talk to.

puppiesonacid · Post by **puppiesonacid** » 10 Apr 2008, 10:54

Ok well, the title of the post was to catch the attention of a would be follow up. We're all pretty intelligent here and most know of many of the other DIY site's that are refrenced so frequently here, being knowledgeable at least in part as to what content those site/projects contain, so I figured reader here would know what I meant.

Maybe if I had a different screen name my questions would be taken more seriously? (its a song by Dream Theater just in case anybody was wondering, from the 5 years in a livetime album. I thought it was funny and memorable)

How about "What is the process by which circuits are designed in pedal form to emulate the characteristics of classic, well known amplifiers through the implementation of fets"? Does that fit better semantically "morecowbell"?

Not trying to be a smart ass but please don't take me for a solder jockey. I'm trying to really understand circuit design principles as they pertain to guitar effects pedals, not "buy the indyguitarist books and start a website trying to be the next keeley or analogman".

By they way, MoreCowbell, your tutorial for swirling boxes is a great refrence. I really appreciate you taking the time to do such wonderful work and share the information on how to do it.

Anyways... I figured that maybe one way to understand this is to take one of the ROG pedals schematics/layouts and compare them to the amp schematic. Is DougH still around? I haven't noticed a post from him in a while. Is his website still up? last I knew it was gone. I'll PM him, thanks.

Tony

MoreCowbell · Post by **MoreCowbell** » 10 Apr 2008, 12:31

puppiesonacid wrote:Ok well, the title of the post was to catch the attention of a would be follow up. We're all pretty intelligent here and most know of many of the other DIY site's that are refrenced so frequently here, being knowledgeable at least in part as to what content those site/projects contain, so I figured reader here would know what I meant.

Maybe if I had a different screen name my questions would be taken more seriously? (its a song by Dream Theater just in case anybody was wondering, from the 5 years in a livetime album. I thought it was funny and memorable)

How about "What is the process by which circuits are designed in pedal form to emulate the characteristics of classic, well known amplifiers through the implementation of fets"? Does that fit better semantically "morecowbell"?

Not trying to be a smart ass but please don't take me for a solder jockey. I'm trying to really understand circuit design principles as they pertain to guitar effects pedals, not "buy the indyguitarist books and start a website trying to be the next keeley or analogman".

By they way, MoreCowbell, your tutorial for swirling boxes is a great refrence. I really appreciate you taking the time to do such wonderful work and share the information on how to do it.

Anyways... I figured that maybe one way to understand this is to take one of the ROG pedals schematics/layouts and compare them to the amp schematic. Is DougH still around? I haven't noticed a post from him in a while. Is his website still up? last I knew it was gone. I'll PM him, thanks.

Tony

I'm not sure why you're taking offense to my post. I simply stated my opinion, then went on to give some tips as to where you might start to learn about the "JFet Amp Sim" style circuits. FWIW, LOTS of people have the misconception that these boxes sound "just like the amp" (of course without ever hearing the pedal...), and thats why I worded my post the way I did. It was certainly not to demean you in any way whatsoever. Sometimes it's easier to state things in a straightforward manner, so that people who read the post in the future will know exactly what is meant.

BTW... this is the ROG article that explains the technique a bit...nothing too "in depth" , but might be helpful... http://www.runoffgroove.com/professor.html

alteredsounds · Post by **alteredsounds** » 10 Apr 2008, 20:42

How about "What is the process by which circuits are designed in pedal form to emulate the characteristics of classic, well known amplifiers through the implementation of fets"? Does that fit better semantically "morecowbell"?

Maybe if your Subject had been worded more like that you may have got a response that made you happier.

uncleboko · Post by **uncleboko** » 10 Apr 2008, 22:14

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JHS · Post by **JHS** » 21 Apr 2008, 15:40

Due to the tube circuit the Marble B-Box sounds like an amp. The H&K Crunch Master sounds like a tube amp too 'cos it's a complete small tube amp. Both react like a good tube amp. The Rustdriver and the BOSS SD-2 in crunch mode sound like a cranked Marshall when used with a tube amp. With trannie amps none of them will sound like a tube amp anymore. The sterile tone of the trannie amp is always present in the the sound and kills any tube flavour of the FX.

JHS

MoreCowbell · Post by **MoreCowbell** » 21 Apr 2008, 20:33

JHS wrote:Due to the tube circuit the Marble B-Box sounds like an amp. The H&K Crunch Master sounds like a tube amp too 'cos it's a complete small tube amp. Both react like a good tube amp. The Rustdriver and the BOSS SD-2 in crunch mode sound like a cranked Marshall when used with a tube amp. With trannie amps none of them will sound like a tube amp anymore. The sterile tone of the trannie amp is always present in the the sound and kills any tube flavour of the FX.

JHS

I would say that the could have "amplike qualities", but due to not having tube output sections and big fat transformers they're unlikely to sound like a great cranked tube amp if put through a clean solid state power amp and set of speakers.

Obviously YMMV... I can only speak to my experience with the Crunch Master, Rustdriver, and SD-2. I havent heard the Marble B-Box. I'll have to check that one out.

incidentally, one of the coolest H&K pieces Ive used was the Cream Machine...that was a nice sounding piece and did fairly well for direct recording. Of course its been 15 years or so since I heard it, and my ears hear things differently now....

Fuzzer · Post by **Fuzzer** » 22 Apr 2008, 02:31

I have an SD-2, nice pedal; a great thing about it was that it was like a dual channel thing, (well, hence the name dual overdrive, I'm being stoopid here), with a simple footswitch, you could go from no effect, to crunch, to lead, and it didn't sound bad, specially the lead channel sounded great through a friend's 50 Watt Marshall Plexi.

By the way, if you're interested, I could post some gutshots, it's pretty crowded inside.