presenting the Schizoid Face

Stompboxes circuits published in magazines, books or on DIY electronics websites.

presenting the Schizoid Face

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 03 Mar 2017, 21:54

Image

stupid face and photon face in one. use a dpdt and stomp between treble boosted sweeter fuzz, or full gospell fuzzface gnarl

both circuits can be heard in the last two stupid pedal trick videos
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Re: presenting the Schizoid Face

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 04 Mar 2017, 01:20

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Re: presenting the Schizoid Face

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 04 Mar 2017, 05:23

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Re: presenting the Schizoid Face

Postby mictester » 04 Mar 2017, 05:35

Jimi

I've just breadboarded it - to see if it really doesn't suck - and you're right. It sounds pretty good to me. One small change I've done - I added 150pF base to collector of each transistor (the value isn't critical, I just had them to hand). The local medium wave station is now not coming out of my test amplifier, and the guitar sounds a bit less harsh. Try it - you might like it!
"Why is it humming?" "Because it doesn't know the words!"

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Re: presenting the Schizoid Face

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 04 Mar 2017, 06:23

ha, you pretty much read my mind bro.
i'm gonna also go up in scale on the input cap from the 47n i used in the video to 470n to get it a smidge fatter, as i think i did in the last layout, which i just noticed i still need to fix something on.

i was really surprised by how close it is.. i a/b'd it with two of my ge fuzzfaces, and several that i've buit. it's really close, and has that sweetness it should have.
i think 47n makes it too treble boosted with a strat, but it's kinda groovy with humbuckers.

i'm thinking about "faking" a variable cap to go from maybe 47n to 4.7u, but think it may motorboat much higher than the stock 2.2u

i think a lot of the sound of the circuit comes from the passives. other than the added e resistors, it's pretty much bone stock standard ff values.

i'll try the pf caps mictester. i bet they'll be just about perfect. i LIKE the edgyness, but it's just a little TOO edgy still when a strat is rolled down, so i bet that will phatten it right up.

and thank you for the validation, it means much!!!!! ;)
:lol:
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Re: presenting the Schizoid Face

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 05 Mar 2017, 18:53

thanks to mictester for suggesting the snubber caps from c to b. i tried it and found two was a little too dark for me, but a 100p cap on the c-b node of q2 works just about perfect. so one added cap, up to you if ya wanna use it or not.
one other revision, go with a .39 or .47 input cap for the stupid face part instead of .047. more ass, and a more pronounced midrange when the guitar is rolled back ( .047 with a strat can be too much treble boost)

Image

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final revision of this particular circuit.

change the .047 cap (c1b) to .39

add a 50-150p snubber cap between c and b of q2

this is verified... the circuit, the vero layout etc. it fits on a 8x9 piece of vero,
and if you're creative, will fit in a 1590a.

that said, with a 1590b or 125, you can make the second switch a stomp switch instead which may be useful.

the nice thing is, the stupid face plays great with humbuckers, and the photon face plays great with single coils. so one fuzz can handle both kinds of guitars.

i DO build them as standalones, but i thought it would be neat to put it all in just one box.

so here ya go. this thing sounds great. i gotta nice compliment from mictester on FSB. he said i was right... it don't suck. good enough for me.
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Re: presenting the Schizoid Face

Postby smurfberry » 05 Mar 2017, 19:36

Hi!

I breadboarded this with 2N4401 transistors, because I didn't have any MPSA06's.

My findings:

I preferred to have 2.2uF elyt as input cap, and keep the 100Ω resistor (R7) connected. But it was fun to disconnect it and have some noisier sounds going on too.

As for the 8.2k resistor, I used an A10K potentiometer instead, it was pretty cool being able to tune in different tones from darker doomish stuff to thinner stuff all the way to AM-radio sounding stuff.

Thanks for sharing!

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Re: presenting the Schizoid Face

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 05 Mar 2017, 20:38

thanks to larry ,,,, errr,,,
rutabaga bob for catching yet another mistake.

this should be 100% on the money now... thanks bro!!

Image

hey smurf, 4401's are perfectly fine. i used 'em in this too before settling on the ones i used. i have a bag of 1000 4401's but the gain is all over the place.
the mpsa06 are ridiculously consistent, out of a bag of 100, i had 90 that all read the same hFE.

r7 changes it from a fuzz control to an attack or contour control. when ya gotta cap before a resistance you make a low pass filter, so it changes the sound ever so slightly.

glad ya have fun with it. my one and only question is, does it suck? i am going for a good circuit that DON'T suck. ;)
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Re: presenting the Schizoid Face

Postby lcv » 06 Mar 2017, 00:24

Hi Jimi
this is a masterpiece
just breadboarded it (the photon face) , input cap 47n, no cb caps , 2n3904 transistors hfe=200
played with my strat, sounds amazing, I like it very much It sounds true, trusty, friendly...
Anyway, I'm going to build it on perfboard, I'll take some pictures.
thank you thank you thankyou
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Re: presenting the Schizoid Face

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 06 Mar 2017, 02:06

thanks so much ~

really glad you diggit, this is the closest i've come to a ge sounding sili fuzzface. i tried a LOT of different values, and was really surprised that the "stock"values worked/sounded best.

the stupid face works great with humbuckers, it's a little thinner and more transparent. i figured both in one box was a good way to go, flick a switch and it's good with a strat or a les paul.
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Re: presenting the Schizoid Face

Postby snofla1900 » 06 Mar 2017, 13:55

Hi Jimi ,

The Q2 transistor is it a MSA 06 or this a typo and should it be MPSA 06? I ask because the way I read it people who used substitutes only mention one type.
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Re: presenting the Schizoid Face

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 06 Mar 2017, 16:19

mpsa06 is the correct one sorry, one more mistake to fix.
but any damn low gain npn's will work... 3904, 4401, 2222's whatever
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Re: presenting the Schizoid Face

Postby Manfred » 07 Mar 2017, 13:42

I have modified and expanded an existing layout to adapt the Schizoid Face.

SchizoidFaceLayout.JPG


SchizoidFacePCB_componentsSide.BMP


SchizoidFacePCB_SolderSide.BMP


Print the PDF-file using the original size setting.

SchizoidFacePCB.pdf



The description "Sx" stands for the SPDT-switch.
The description "Vx" stands for the VOLUME pot.
The description "Fx" stands for the FUZZ pot.
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Re: presenting the Schizoid Face

Postby smackoj » 08 Mar 2017, 04:15

I love this section of the Forum because I really like the 'cutting edge' stuff that doesn't require an MS degree from MIT (30 parts or less is my wheelhouse). And thanks a million to manfred who put up the printable pcb layout. Very groovy.
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Re: presenting the Schizoid Face

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 08 Mar 2017, 17:26

hahahah, all i got on the other forum was bitching lol..."i did this before you"... with completely different circuits and components.
one cat no matter what ya post, it's always "well, i would do it like this, and you should do this and this and this and this..." from a guy who doesn't even build stuff.
he makes some great designs,and is good on "soundalikes"... but so far i've never seen a circuit that he didn't feel HE could improve. to me, the essence of the circuit is the circuit itself.
if you add all kindsa shit to it and over complicate it, it may sound great, but is it really the same thing?

i wanted to stay as close to a stock fuzzface as i could with readily and easily available parts. i wanted it to sound and feel like a good one. this isn't perfect, but it's the closest i've gotten after 300+ fuzzes over the last 12 years. the mere fact you guys enjoy this kinda shit makes all the " obviously you don't know what this forum is for" bullshit worth it.

ok. that said.

i broke the fuckin schizoid face's switch last nite as i was setting it up, the one to go between stupid and photon mode. it landed right on the switch. ouch.

so i used the one i made for my bassist. this is subtly different, used a 2.2 input cap and a 470n output. i think that's too big on the output, 47n is probably plenty.

also i added a 100p cap between b and c of q2, but i think i'm gonna go down in size to maybe 10p there, 100p cuts the high end just a little too much for my tastes. it loses just a little too much "edge" from what was on my breadboard.

but that said, even with the oversized caps (for a bass remember) it sounded great on guitar last nite.. cleaned up well, not perfect. there is a real sweet spot around the e resistor for q2, i tried various values... 100r is too much, 27 r is not enough, 47r is bloody perfect... i ran out of 47r's and used two 27r's in series... well, 54r's resistance is actually too much!! if ya go below 47, the guitar knob doesn't clean up right, there's a "glitch" right at the top of the sweep where it gets very fuzzy the last 10th of a turn or so. if you go ABOVE 47r, it will clean up better but you lose enough edge to be noticeable.

most peeps use 1k or higher there. wayyyy too much. i don't care what the books say. i care what my ears say.

and THAT is why i love THIS forum. i've never been told off here, people are supportive and appreciative and seek truth, not bullshit.

manfred... thank you brother!! i look forward to getting myself some boards made down the road.

ok that said..

if you want the photon face only, you must jumper the ground side of the 22u cap to ground in the vero as shown. for the photon face, ground pin 3 of the fuzz pot right to h2, if ya want the stupid face, put it on h8 so it's floated above ground by the 100r resistance (r 7)

for the photon face, use cap c1a only... for the stupid face, use cap c1b only. ya'll will figure it out.

i ordered some 1590b's so i can make the stupid/photon switch a stomp instead for my personal one.

anyways... thanks you guys, ya'lls the bestest!!
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Re: presenting the Schizoid Face

Postby Manfred » 08 Mar 2017, 23:57

manfred... thank you brother!! i look forward to getting myself some boards made down the road.

Jimi thank you brother also for your tricky lill devices. :thumbsup
We old and grizzled guys have to stick together.
We are aged but the mind is still alert. :D
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Re: presenting the Schizoid Face

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 09 Mar 2017, 02:12

hahaha, my mind went with my second childhood ;)

i fixed the switch, this thing sounds great. the stupid face actually sounds a little closer to the ge, but the photon face is typical fuzz face brutality.

i'm building one for my live board with a stomp switch to switch from stupid to photon. somehow that synopsis works ;)

darkness to light? lol

shit's getting deep in here all of a sudden ;)

all i know is i am honored by such good company ;)
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Re: presenting the Schizoid Face

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 25 Mar 2017, 18:09

i ditch the snubber caps in mine. they take too much "edge" away imho. some transistors DO sound better with them, but not the ones i'm using.

i just revised the project to version 1.4, including all the in/out switching, effects switching, the led's etc... will post it soon as i can up load it.

i'm telling you, them fuckin videos don't do it justice. so far every one who has tried the actual schizoid face live has bought one. in some cases TWO. i can't seem to keep enough of them around. i HAVE used it live on a couple occaisons now, and can absolutely replace my germanium with it with no issues at all. less noise, less hiss, and dependable regardless of temperature.

you should really try it. i can guarantee you will be surprised. it sounds/works WAYYYYYY better than the videos can show it to be. also useful for hot muddy humbuckers, gives a real nice "edge".

the final (ha!) revision includes the led's. it's a happy/sad face. in sad mode (stupid face) the two eyes on the smiley light blue. in happy mode (photon face) they light green.
in bypass, all 4 light up red. cuz i'm an unabashed stoner ;)

just the blue leds for stupid, just green for photon.

use rgb's, common ANODE... then you only need one CLR per led pair. 27k seemed about the best for the CLR.
the rgb's at tayda go from left to right, with anode being longest, red, anode, green, blue


the basic graphic looks like this:

:( :

people advised to add anti pop resistors, but they really aren't necessary other than one. take it right from the footswitch where it goes to board in to ground. that's it. the other stuff is sufficiently isolated to not cause popping issues. i reccomend 4.7m. works perfect

a pair of 3pdt footswitches allows not only true bypass, but also the light show aspect for the graphic. the layout i'm about to post shows how to do it.

i use 9mm alphas. 1k audio for fuzz, 250k linear for volume.


Image
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Re: presenting the Schizoid Face

Postby Manfred » 25 Mar 2017, 22:19

Layout with changed value of R9.

SchizoidFaceLayout2.JPG
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Re: presenting the Schizoid Face

Postby pinkjimiphoton » 25 Mar 2017, 22:38

cool, thanks bro.
i've been squishing these in very small boxes, so i just go point to point. the single pulldown works for the whole circuit. i found 1 meg i was getting pops on the second footswitch, but it stopped with the 4.7m. i didn't try anything in between. the ones i sell i am putting one from where the guitar input goes to ground, but it's really overkill.
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