No hum with your favorite single coils

Pickups, wiring schemes, switch techniques and onboard active electronics for guitars and basses
User avatar
ansil
Cap Cooler
Information
Posts: 491
Joined: 03 Mar 2009, 21:49
my favorite amplifier: my hughes and kettner blue 30r
Completed builds: 3 jcm 800 builds
4 vintage plexi builds
2 bogner ecstasy preamps [both for personal use]
10 marshall guvnor mods and builds
100 jungle kat boosts
too many penguin love's to count.
5 blues pearl purplexed
dozen tube screamer fulldrive whatever you call them variants

hell i can't type this long it will piss off people what can i say i have been doing mods on toyz appliances gear sex toyz computers and such for 27 years. i started when i was 6 taking stuff apart.
Location: cleveland tn
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 13 times
Contact:

Post by ansil »

Yeah that's why this one has a rechargeable battery in it I hate all the stuff you have to go through tochange a battery.

User avatar
Syrus1312
Information
Posts: 23
Joined: 31 Jul 2011, 17:29
my favorite amplifier: VOX VT30 / Supro 16T
Location: Greyfield
Has thanked: 5 times

Post by Syrus1312 »

All this trouble, when most of the times the solution is quite easy.

EXPERIENCIN' HUM WITH YER FAVORITE GEETAR? :shock:

No worries :wink:

:idea: Da solution: :idea:
http://www.mcmcomputers.co.uk/images/3857806.jpg

Cheap and works.

1 Connect to wrist
2 Snap that sucker onto your bridge and hum & Sizzle be gone! :horsey:
3 ?????
4 PROFIT !
Some men see things as they are and say, "Why?" I dream of things that never were and say, "Why not?" - George Bernard Shaw

User avatar
ansil
Cap Cooler
Information
Posts: 491
Joined: 03 Mar 2009, 21:49
my favorite amplifier: my hughes and kettner blue 30r
Completed builds: 3 jcm 800 builds
4 vintage plexi builds
2 bogner ecstasy preamps [both for personal use]
10 marshall guvnor mods and builds
100 jungle kat boosts
too many penguin love's to count.
5 blues pearl purplexed
dozen tube screamer fulldrive whatever you call them variants

hell i can't type this long it will piss off people what can i say i have been doing mods on toyz appliances gear sex toyz computers and such for 27 years. i started when i was 6 taking stuff apart.
Location: cleveland tn
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 13 times
Contact:

Post by ansil »

is this a joke???? or am i missing something a simple ground strap will not eliminate 60cycle hum because thats saying touch the bridge and your hum will go away. hell if that worked for single coil hum i think we would all be using that 50 years ago. or did i miss something.

now that does work great on acoustic guitars where there is no ground connection to the strings on the active models

User avatar
Syrus1312
Information
Posts: 23
Joined: 31 Jul 2011, 17:29
my favorite amplifier: VOX VT30 / Supro 16T
Location: Greyfield
Has thanked: 5 times

Post by Syrus1312 »

ansil wrote:is this a joke???? or am i missing something a simple ground strap will not eliminate 60cycle hum because thats saying touch the bridge and your hum will go away. hell if that worked for single coil hum i think we would all be using that 50 years ago. or did i miss something.

now that does work great on acoustic guitars where there is no ground connection to the strings on the active models
Well actually,
part joke / part serious.

Some guitars have such a bad connection to earth, this alone cures a lot of the hum.
Easy way to test is to touch strings and release them, if crackling then this helps.
You know what I mean ;)

My bassguitar has been cured of hum this way.

And in all seriousness some guitars are just plain bad. Hum is present in your guitar, in the amp, pedals, cables.
But I understand the struggle to reduce it at the source.

Do question yourself what passive electronics are going to require from your guitar.
Can you say bad mojo? Most guitarists don't even understand this technology.
Even if it works. Might be something for top of the line though. 8)
No major guitar company is going to add some "expensive" parts to a cheap guitar which hums.
They cut cost in every way possible, electronics can be rather expensive. :|
So I guess this project is going to turn either into a straight success or DIY fantasy. :block:
Some men see things as they are and say, "Why?" I dream of things that never were and say, "Why not?" - George Bernard Shaw

User avatar
ansil
Cap Cooler
Information
Posts: 491
Joined: 03 Mar 2009, 21:49
my favorite amplifier: my hughes and kettner blue 30r
Completed builds: 3 jcm 800 builds
4 vintage plexi builds
2 bogner ecstasy preamps [both for personal use]
10 marshall guvnor mods and builds
100 jungle kat boosts
too many penguin love's to count.
5 blues pearl purplexed
dozen tube screamer fulldrive whatever you call them variants

hell i can't type this long it will piss off people what can i say i have been doing mods on toyz appliances gear sex toyz computers and such for 27 years. i started when i was 6 taking stuff apart.
Location: cleveland tn
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 13 times
Contact:

Post by ansil »

ok well that makes more sense to me. i must apologize though as i realize i am quick to assume that if your on this forum you have properly shielded guitars basses ie etc and you check all your gear regularly. i know everyone's not all on the same level i just learned a long long time ago that its easier to keep your gear at road ready maintenance. Since for the last decade i have been teching for some of the finest chicken pickers i realized a startling revelation. my work keeps their gear rolling for a hundred thousand people a night so its got to be right.

but yeah i agree there are quite a few guitars that just plain suck that is why i offer a clinic here in TN twice a year [time permitting] to all my students and anyone wishing to attend on proper guitar maintenance and general gear health.

but i agree with you on acoustic electrics that is the sheit we used to have something similar a special jack that had a band on it that went in your waist of your pants sometimes it was tingly

lol

User avatar
GuitarlCarl
Cap Cooler
Information
Posts: 614
Joined: 14 Dec 2010, 15:14
my favorite amplifier: anything tube
Completed builds: Ds-1 mods, SD-1 mods, Small Clone mods, Muff build, Axis build, various other transistor booster builds... I can build a badaxe harmonic perc, but I can't get a fuzzface to sound worth a crap!
Location: Smellinoiz
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Post by GuitarlCarl »

I'd rather not be in the ground loop of my guitar... Nothing like stepping up to the mic at some shady club with substandard wiring... and zapping your lip when you touch the mic... My strat has star grounding with a cap between the bridge ground and the output jack and foil shielding, pretty quiet. Now, your not gonna stop fluorescent lighting hum in your axe without serious loss to your tone. BUT, even a cheap EQ like the Danelectro model, (which really is a great pedal) can filter out the ac hum better than cutting it out in my guitar. It's also quite possible with an inline ac filter, like the EBtech, will take all the hum out without any serious mods to your guitar other than correct grounding and shielding...
I want it to sound like bees buzzing around in a 55 gallon drum...

User avatar
ansil
Cap Cooler
Information
Posts: 491
Joined: 03 Mar 2009, 21:49
my favorite amplifier: my hughes and kettner blue 30r
Completed builds: 3 jcm 800 builds
4 vintage plexi builds
2 bogner ecstasy preamps [both for personal use]
10 marshall guvnor mods and builds
100 jungle kat boosts
too many penguin love's to count.
5 blues pearl purplexed
dozen tube screamer fulldrive whatever you call them variants

hell i can't type this long it will piss off people what can i say i have been doing mods on toyz appliances gear sex toyz computers and such for 27 years. i started when i was 6 taking stuff apart.
Location: cleveland tn
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 13 times
Contact:

Post by ansil »

ok so someone brought up the cap mod from guitar nuts so i have to ask the question since i still don't seem to understand it. what is the cap good for between bridge and ground??????????????? the shock you usually get [at least in my 20+years of experience] is ac not dc so we are filtering out the freq that kills us?????? just wondering i have measured the voltage difference on a non capped guitar and one shielded like this and there is nothing. no current change either? sorry for ranting and hijacking but its early in my day and i am awake and curious

ed

User avatar
JiM
Diode Debunker
Information
Posts: 967
Joined: 11 Mar 2008, 22:56
Completed builds: Completed builds :
Proco Rat
MXR MicroAmp in a volume pedal
TubeDriver (w/ NoS russian tube and big muff tone contol) + Phase 45 (w/ univibe cap ratio)
Dallas Rangemaster (w/ noisy OC75, negative ground)
SubCaster tube booster (w/ NoS russian tube, PtP)
Hot Harmonics
Music From Outer Space SubCommander in progress
Crackle Not OK
Simple bass blender in a 1590A
Bazz Fuss with a photo-darlington
Location: France
Has thanked: 70 times
Been thanked: 66 times
Contact:

Post by JiM »

ansil wrote:ok so someone brought up the cap mod from guitar nuts so i have to ask the question since i still don't seem to understand it. what is the cap good for between bridge and ground??????????????? the shock you usually get [at least in my 20+years of experience] is ac not dc so we are filtering out the freq that kills us?????? just wondering i have measured the voltage difference on a non capped guitar and one shielded like this and there is nothing. no current change either? sorry for ranting and hijacking but its early in my day and i am awake and curious

ed
It's rather well explained there : http://www.guitarnuts.com/technical/ele ... /index.php
The cap may provide some sort of protection only in case of failure of non-earthed vintage tube amplifier, leaking DC voltage to signal ground.

That's indeed unlikely, and a properly earthed amp should trigger the differential breaker in case of such a failure. I'd rather have no cap in my guitar and make sure that my amp is well maintained, and that the mains outlets are properly wired. Maybe it's also related to electrical standards in the USA, with 110V, non-recessed wall sockets, ground lift switches and other oddities ...

:idea: I just spent two days this week in training about electrical safety :idea:
I only give negative feedback.

User avatar
ansil
Cap Cooler
Information
Posts: 491
Joined: 03 Mar 2009, 21:49
my favorite amplifier: my hughes and kettner blue 30r
Completed builds: 3 jcm 800 builds
4 vintage plexi builds
2 bogner ecstasy preamps [both for personal use]
10 marshall guvnor mods and builds
100 jungle kat boosts
too many penguin love's to count.
5 blues pearl purplexed
dozen tube screamer fulldrive whatever you call them variants

hell i can't type this long it will piss off people what can i say i have been doing mods on toyz appliances gear sex toyz computers and such for 27 years. i started when i was 6 taking stuff apart.
Location: cleveland tn
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 13 times
Contact:

Post by ansil »

Well at least someone finally clued me in lol. That page wasnt there the first time I saw that dcjematic which schools show up how long shop it was I saw it. Yeah I can se the benefits of that. But it would serve better if it could block ac for me

User avatar
Syrus1312
Information
Posts: 23
Joined: 31 Jul 2011, 17:29
my favorite amplifier: VOX VT30 / Supro 16T
Location: Greyfield
Has thanked: 5 times

Post by Syrus1312 »

ansil wrote:ok well that makes more sense to me. i must apologize though as i realize i am quick to assume that if your on this forum you have properly shielded guitars basses ie etc and you check all your gear regularly. i know everyone's not all on the same level i just learned a long long time ago that its easier to keep your gear at road ready maintenance. Since for the last decade i have been teching for some of the finest chicken pickers i realized a startling revelation. my work keeps their gear rolling for a hundred thousand people a night so its got to be right.

but yeah i agree there are quite a few guitars that just plain suck that is why i offer a clinic here in TN twice a year [time permitting] to all my students and anyone wishing to attend on proper guitar maintenance and general gear health.

but i agree with you on acoustic electrics that is the sheit we used to have something similar a special jack that had a band on it that went in your waist of your pants sometimes it was tingly

lol
Don't go assuming that other player's guitars are under-maintained and maybe you should also drop the attitude, its not charming in any way. If you red properly then you would've known that I experienced a positive decrease in hum on my bassguitar. Which is just a fun instrument for me, being a guitarist in my band ;)

All my guitars are shielded better then stock and have been equipped with some extra safety features. Be it against dropping or some other malfunction. I can guess that most people here care more about pedals and the sweet smell of solder in the morning.

Hum is always present in my rig. Soft mostly. Though I can tell you from experience, when I played for about hundred people, nobody ever hears hum. My drummer is way to loud. Besides, most people who come to our band suffer from Tinnitus anyway. I will bet you ten dollars that they won't hear a difference. Most of us play in a Rock band, not some classical acoustic perfectionist band. When I stop playing I use my volume pedal to kill the sound and the hum. Two birds, one stone.

Btw, if you want to use this strap and you worry about getting electrocuted, then stop touching the strings ever again. Because that is the same effect as this strap. : (
I almost got zapped once whilst picking up the guitar, because a "friend" rewired his tube amp wrong. Not Funny, as I still have small burn marks. The guitar started buzzing when he turned on the amp. Really scary shit.

Here is a quick tip, especially for you!
There is a difference between "your" and "you are". Might be smart to wise up on spelling before trying other stuff ;)
Some men see things as they are and say, "Why?" I dream of things that never were and say, "Why not?" - George Bernard Shaw

User avatar
ansil
Cap Cooler
Information
Posts: 491
Joined: 03 Mar 2009, 21:49
my favorite amplifier: my hughes and kettner blue 30r
Completed builds: 3 jcm 800 builds
4 vintage plexi builds
2 bogner ecstasy preamps [both for personal use]
10 marshall guvnor mods and builds
100 jungle kat boosts
too many penguin love's to count.
5 blues pearl purplexed
dozen tube screamer fulldrive whatever you call them variants

hell i can't type this long it will piss off people what can i say i have been doing mods on toyz appliances gear sex toyz computers and such for 27 years. i started when i was 6 taking stuff apart.
Location: cleveland tn
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 13 times
Contact:

Post by ansil »

No attitufe up teaf wrong I actually expect people to be on top of their gear looks like I was right. It's all words man if up take offense then it's your choice however please have a nice day. That was not sarcasm btw :)

User avatar
Syrus1312
Information
Posts: 23
Joined: 31 Jul 2011, 17:29
my favorite amplifier: VOX VT30 / Supro 16T
Location: Greyfield
Has thanked: 5 times

Post by Syrus1312 »

JiM wrote:
ansil wrote:ok so someone brought up the cap mod from guitar nuts so i have to ask the question since i still don't seem to understand it. what is the cap good for between bridge and ground??????????????? the shock you usually get [at least in my 20+years of experience] is ac not dc so we are filtering out the freq that kills us?????? just wondering i have measured the voltage difference on a non capped guitar and one shielded like this and there is nothing. no current change either? sorry for ranting and hijacking but its early in my day and i am awake and curious

ed
It's rather well explained there : http://www.guitarnuts.com/technical/ele ... /index.php
The cap may provide some sort of protection only in case of failure of non-earthed vintage tube amplifier, leaking DC voltage to signal ground.

That's indeed unlikely, and a properly earthed amp should trigger the differential breaker in case of such a failure. I'd rather have no cap in my guitar and make sure that my amp is well maintained, and that the mains outlets are properly wired. Maybe it's also related to electrical standards in the USA, with 110V, non-recessed wall sockets, ground lift switches and other oddities ...

:idea: I just spent two days this week in training about electrical safety :idea:
What is the cap value if I may ask? I read something about that on another site once. Don't remember where or what.
Seems logical. But a cap is going to load and unload with a certain frequency right? Wouldn't something a Diode with a cap be better or a resistor to ground?
Some men see things as they are and say, "Why?" I dream of things that never were and say, "Why not?" - George Bernard Shaw

User avatar
JiM
Diode Debunker
Information
Posts: 967
Joined: 11 Mar 2008, 22:56
Completed builds: Completed builds :
Proco Rat
MXR MicroAmp in a volume pedal
TubeDriver (w/ NoS russian tube and big muff tone contol) + Phase 45 (w/ univibe cap ratio)
Dallas Rangemaster (w/ noisy OC75, negative ground)
SubCaster tube booster (w/ NoS russian tube, PtP)
Hot Harmonics
Music From Outer Space SubCommander in progress
Crackle Not OK
Simple bass blender in a 1590A
Bazz Fuss with a photo-darlington
Location: France
Has thanked: 70 times
Been thanked: 66 times
Contact:

Post by JiM »

Syrus1312 wrote:What is the cap value if I may ask? I read something about that on another site once. Don't remember where or what.
Seems logical. But a cap is going to load and unload with a certain frequency right? Wouldn't something a Diode with a cap be better or a resistor to ground?
There are several values proposed :
guitarnuts wrote:Disconnect the bridge ground wire on your guitar or use a small (about .02uf) capacitor shunted by a large (about 220k) resistor to isolate the bridge from the rest of the ground.
[...]
Finally, note that the 0.33uf capacitor I use to isolate the shield ground from the signal ground in the "Quiet the Beast" modification on the wiring pages should not be relied upon to protect you from the AC shock of scenarios two and three!
[...]
You could replace this capacitor with a much smaller one (about .02uf) which would protect against both the AC and DC shock but you can expect the result to be noticeably noisier – and other parts such as the jack plate will still be at a lethal potential.
The point is to isolate the strings from a faulty ground (set at a deadly DC voltage from real ground). Therefore a cap as large as possible/practical, with high voltage rating, should block deadly DC voltage and let AC hum, down to low frequencies, being drained to ground. Any deadly AC voltage would remain dangerous.

A higher value cap would also block low (50/60Hz) frequencies, but any hum at those frequencies would remain.
At the extreme, one could completely isolate the strings from the electric circuit of the guitar. Any static charge would stay in this metallic mass, probably causing lots of buzz and hum, but no dangerous voltage coming from a faulty amplifier could reach you. Until you touch a pickup, a knob, the jackplate ...

A varistor might be a better safety device, don't you think ?
I only give negative feedback.

User avatar
Syrus1312
Information
Posts: 23
Joined: 31 Jul 2011, 17:29
my favorite amplifier: VOX VT30 / Supro 16T
Location: Greyfield
Has thanked: 5 times

Post by Syrus1312 »

JiM wrote:
Syrus1312 wrote:What is the cap value if I may ask? I read something about that on another site once. Don't remember where or what.
Seems logical. But a cap is going to load and unload with a certain frequency right? Wouldn't something a Diode with a cap be better or a resistor to ground?
There are several values proposed :
guitarnuts wrote:Disconnect the bridge ground wire on your guitar or use a small (about .02uf) capacitor shunted by a large (about 220k) resistor to isolate the bridge from the rest of the ground.
[...]
Finally, note that the 0.33uf capacitor I use to isolate the shield ground from the signal ground in the "Quiet the Beast" modification on the wiring pages should not be relied upon to protect you from the AC shock of scenarios two and three!
[...]
You could replace this capacitor with a much smaller one (about .02uf) which would protect against both the AC and DC shock but you can expect the result to be noticeably noisier – and other parts such as the jack plate will still be at a lethal potential.
The point is to isolate the strings from a faulty ground (set at a deadly DC voltage from real ground). Therefore a cap as large as possible/practical, with high voltage rating, should block deadly DC voltage and let AC hum, down to low frequencies, being drained to ground. Any deadly AC voltage would remain dangerous.

A higher value cap would also block low (50/60Hz) frequencies, but any hum at those frequencies would remain.
At the extreme, one could completely isolate the strings from the electric circuit of the guitar. Any static charge would stay in this metallic mass, probably causing lots of buzz and hum, but no dangerous voltage coming from a faulty amplifier could reach you. Until you touch a pickup, a knob, the jackplate ...

A varistor might be a better safety device, don't you think ?
Perfect!
Just what I had in mind :)
Time to tinker.

:O
Slap this in your guitar => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Varistor.jpg just for safety.

Personally, I have no fear with mass produced amplifiers. As long as the socket is grounded in a clean fashion.
Its the handmade DIY projects and bad microphones invoke a bit of fear in me :)
Some men see things as they are and say, "Why?" I dream of things that never were and say, "Why not?" - George Bernard Shaw

User avatar
Arn C.
Information
Posts: 1
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 12:33

Post by Arn C. »

I have a tele copy and I tried a bunch of things to get rid of the noise including shielding the whole cavity with copper.
I finally used the trick I used on making pedals. I used a piece of shielded wire and hooked it up to the input jack and grounded only one side and it works great! No noise what so ever, just clean guitar sounds.

Arn C.

Post Reply