5-sound Telecaster

Pickups, wiring schemes, switch techniques and onboard active electronics for guitars and basses
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Post by JiM »

Hello folks !
I'm thinking about getting a Telecaster to complement my SG, and i'm already thinking about how i could mod it. :mrgreen:

The pickup wiring scheme that looks the most interesting is the "5-sound" or "T-riffic" mod, which involves a 4P5T lever switch (aka SuperSwitch).
http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/triffic/index.php
http://www.deaf-eddie.net/drawings/5-tone.jpg
http://www.geocities.jp/dgb_studio/2svari_e.htm#6 (this one lacks series-out-of-phase, but there are plenty others)

I've found that with a little thinking and a small mechanical modification of the switch, these wirings are available with a standard 5-way Stratocaster switch !
All you need to do is to make the 4th position "break-before-make" on one side of the wafer (instead of "make-before-break"), in such a way that the last lug does not make contact with Common (and most important, with middle lug) in 4th position, and makes contact with Common only in 5th position. Without this mod, 4th position will be silent as the output will be grounded.
Depending on the switch model, this involves un-crimping that last lug and crimping it back in the next slot, or rotating it on its eyelet, or maybe just bending it with pliers. PCB-based switches could be filed.

What you get is a logical progression from dark to bright sounds :
  1. Neck and Bridge in series, for fat humbucker-like sound
  2. Neck, nothing special
  3. Neck and Bridge in series, out-of-phase, for quack !
  4. Neck and Bridge in parallel, same as stock middle position
  5. Bridge, in the Right Place®
There is no modification of the look of the guitar. There's no need to lift neck pickup cover, as it's the polarity of the bridge pickup that is switched. There is no "hanging coil" position, inactive coil is either shorted or grounded, so it shouldn't be noisy. Depending on the pickups, you'll get humbucking in positions 1 and 4 (modern) or 3 (vintage). It can be adapted to a Strat, e.g. with the middle pickup on its own volume.

So what do you think ? I've not performed this mod yet, as i don't have a suitable guitar ... So i don't know how difficult the switch modification will be.

BTW, which Tele do you recommand between Blade T1 Delta (w/boost), Peavey Generation EX (w/piezo), Squier Vintage Modified SSH (w/mini-humbucker), and Squier Custom II (w/P-90) ? Or something else ?
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Post by DWBH »

My Fender Baja does that plus a 6th sound:
Neck and Bridge in parallel, out of phase.

It's a shame that the switch isn't that common.

As for Tele recommendations, try the Squier Classic Vibe 50s Telecaster. One heck of a guitar.

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Post by omni »

How do you get bridge ground on position 4 if the new position 5 contact no longer shorts to position 3?

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Post by Fuzzer »

Very cool;

However, I think Position 4 doesn't work as expected, because the bridge Pickup will not sound, it has to make contact with 5 but not with 3. It would be like havind the same position repeated for 4 and 5.
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Post by JiM »

omni wrote:How do you get bridge ground on position 4 if the new position 5 contact no longer shorts to position 3?
If it were shorting to position 3, we would ground the output. In position 4, the "#5" contact (which is grounded) should connect only to the Common (bridge pickup cold). The parallel wiring of both pickups to the output is made on the other side of the switch.
Maybe the switch mod is trickier than i thought, it seems to me now that it's the center lug that should be moved, not the last one ... :?
DWBH wrote:My Fender Baja does that plus a 6th sound:
Neck and Bridge in parallel, out of phase.

I thought about forgetting the series-out-of-phase on the switch, go for something like that or that plus a push-pull for both out-of-phase. Is the parallel-out-of-phase a useful sound ? Some says that it's very thin and weak.
DWBH wrote:As for Tele recommendations, try the Squier Classic Vibe 50s Telecaster. One heck of a guitar.
Yes, i heard several good reviews of that one, but for the same list price i still don't get where it's better that the Vintage Modified ones. It obviously looks more vintage, but that has drawbacks : 3-saddle bridge, non hum-cancelling pickups, less pickup combinations, only one color ... the neck is the same, and i don't know the difference between pine and cedar soundwise ... can you elaborate, until i get to try both of them ?
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Post by Ben N »

Another 5-way Tele scheme, this time using a stock Strat switch, courtesy of Craig Anderton:
http://deaf-eddie.net/tdpri-drawings/an ... rotary.jpg. Well, ok, 4 sounds and a mute position. There is also a Tele 4-way switch sold by Fender that give3s you the series wiring in addition to the usual three. To get in/out of phase choices with either of those you need an extra switch, though.

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Post by Fuzzer »

JiM wrote:Is the parallel-out-of-phase a useful sound ? Some says that it's very thin and weak.
I tried it on a strat, bridge and neck pickups out of phase in parallel and I can tell it doesn't sound weak, the best for you is to try and decide. Maybe for close pickups it will be crap, but for spaced pickups it becomes interesting.
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Post by DWBH »

IMO, parallel pickups + out-of-phase sounds way more cool that series pickup + out-of-phase. Sounds much more knopfler-esque (as someone once said), whereas the series+out-of-phase sounds more like a nasal stuck wah.
The Classic Vibe series is more authentic than the Vintage Modified. More vintage orientated, that's for sure.
Regarding the pickup combinations, isn't that what's this topic for? :lol:
The pickups sound really cool, and the routing cavities are shielded, so there is not much hum.
If you want a Tele that sounds like a Tele, go for the Classic Vibe.
If want want a more modern touch to it, go for the Vintage Modified.
YMMV.

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Post by Ben N »

Brian May uses a series out of phase combination and calls it his screaming tone. Different guitar, pickups, fingers, obviously, but something worth considering. Of course he is looking for the stuck wah thing, so there you go.

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Post by DWBH »

It definitely screams. I actually prefer that sound overdriven rather then clean. Clean, it gets pretty blah, but overdriven it's pretty awesome.
Cuts through the mix like a knife through butter, and if you use lots of gain you can almost get a faux-octave up.
Cool sound, but for my purposes, I do prefer the parallel+out of phase.

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Post by gus »

http://www.blueguitar.org/new/schem/_gtr/tele5way.gif

That has been up for years I need to find my notebook for a date I need to find my notes on when I sent it to the blue guitar site and it was posted
n and b in and out of series plus the standard three

Also a hint as to the logic I used to figure out the wiring. All the same letters are connected. I used a yamaha 5 way super switch Stew Mac sold

For more fun look up the L6 wiring it is six way

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Post by kikey »

I have written an article about "½-out-of-phase" wiring.
http://sites.google.com/site/kikeysite/ ... telecaster

This is a nice way to get new sounds out of a telecaster.
You can for example acheive a strat-like sound. :)

Have fun!

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Post by JiM »

I've eventually got a Classic Vibe Telecaster, thanks for the advice. The finish is great, and the sound too ! :thumbsup

It's still got the stock 3-way switch (i just did the series mod, i couldn't resist) but i'm thinking of changing the neck pickup for a Seymour Duncan P-Rails : http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/e ... ils_shpr1/
SD recommands putting the Rail towards the inside, like this but i'm planning it the other way around : the Rail would then be around the same position as the original neck pickup, i.e. at the "sweet spot" under the second octave harmonic. The P-90, with its broader magnetic field, would then be more of a middle pickup.
Did someone try this ?

Here is a wiring scheme for such a Fat Tele (single + humbucker), providing 9 different sounds with a 5-way switch and one DPDT switch, usually a push-pull pot. This wiring should also work for 3 single coils, but it will sound a little different because the middle pickup is ... well, in the middle. It was indeed designed for a Strat : http://www.geocities.jp/dgb_studio/3svari2_e.htm#35
  • In parallel mode (pot pushed), it works like a Strat with the Middle (P-90 here) and Neck (Rail) pickups swapped. This provides the standard Tele sounds in positions 3, 4 and 5.
    1. P-90
    2. P-90 and Rail in parallel *
    3. Rail
    4. Rail and Bridge in parallel *
    5. Bridge
  • In series mode (pot pulled), we get the full humbucker, the "Tele Series" and some other things.
    1. P-90 and Rail in series (Humbucker) *
    2. P-90 (again)
    3. P-90 and Rail in series, with the tone pot in parallel with the P-90. *
    4. P-90 and Bridge in parallel
    5. Rail and Bridge in series *
* humbucking positions

It lacks the out-of-phase sounds, but this can easily be done with a second push-pull switch swapping the wires from the bridge pickup. You can then get Rail and Bridge in parallel out-of-phase, Rail and Bridge in series out-of-phase, and P-90 and Bridge in parallel out-of-phase. Only the latter would be humbucking.

Did someone try the series or parallel out-of-phase wiring with a P-Rail ? With a traditionnal humbucker it's not very useful as the coils are very similar and a lot of cancellations occur. Maybe it's better with such an asymetric pickup ?
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Post by NQbass7 »

Bit of a necropost, but...

I did a Tele with a Lollar Vintage bridge and P-rail using a 4-way switch and 2 push-push pots. The p-p pots control the P-rail (rail/p-90/parallel/series) and the 4-way is typical options - bridge/parallel/neck/series. Still getting used to the sounds (and still working on getting an amp that's not a POS so I can hear what it's supposed to sound like), but so far I'm liking it. The only complaint I have so far is that the P-90 far out-powers the Vintage Bridge, so I may try stepping up to a Lollar special T or something similar.

Oh, and I did put the rail side of the p-rail towards the neck.

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Post by JiM »

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead again ... oh, nevermind, i started it after all!
I eventually realized that i did not post the actual schematic of my Telecaster. I think it's fully original, i designed it from scratch and have seen nothing like it anywhere else. Most of the parts are stock (pickups, selector, volume pot), i just replaced the tone pot with a push-pull, and added some caps.

With the tone pot pushed, everything looks and sounds stock. Stealth mode. Twang as usual.

But when you pull it, lots of things happen. First, the ground side of the neck pickup is lifted, and connected in series with the bridge pickup though a small cap (C3). In addition, a larger cap (C4) is added in parallel of the small one in "neck" position. This results in the following combos :
  1. Neck: both pickups are in series, also in series with two caps in parallel. This provides a big, fat "wide humbucker" sound, with the ability to tighten the low end with the value of C4. I tweaked for about 30nF for the parallel combination of C3 and C4, to tame it a bit. It's loud and hum-cancelling !
  2. Mid: The bridge pickup alone, with C3 in series. This removes all the lows from the already bright Tele Bridge pickup, providing a thin, weak, nasal sound. The tone control almost acts like a volume, as it removes all that's left in the treble range. This did not seem very useful at first sight, but eventually it is in a band situation. If you want an instant cleaner, quieter rhythm sound that still has some presence in the treble, this is for you. Especially in contrast with the Series wiring. Also if you use a lot of distorted gain, but don't want muddy lows, you can really crank the dirt box. This thing is so sharp, it cuts though the mix !
  3. Bridge : both pickups, in parallel, out of phase. But the small cap is still in series with the bridge pickup, so there is not so much frequency cancellation in the lows. This is called "Half Out Of Phase", and reminds me of a Strat intermediate sound. Very usable, comparable in volume but distinct in tone from the parallel wiring, with some hi-mids scoop. Definitely not as thin and weak as fully out-of-phase wiring. Unfortunately, this one is not hum-cancelling.
Besides the pickup switching, the tone pot uses a configuration similar to a tweed amp. I've used a 500k push-pull pot, because that's what i had, and it provides a wider range of adjustment. It's a bit like having an over-the-top treble bleed, that you can disable with the tone knob. Everything acts normal with the tone pot up to 9, but beyond it provides a treble boost when the volume is reduced. Very versatile.

All in all, this remains easy to use, even on stage. There is no modification in the look, and not many additional controls to get confused with. Still it provides a much wider variety of sounds, more than double. For me, the best features-to-complexity ratio on a Tele.
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Post by mrsmash23 »

Hello!

I would like to try Jim's 6-sound wiring, but I got 7-lug switch with only 1 common connection ( 1-2-3-C-1-2-3 type). Can I solder those 2 wires going to separated common lugs in Jim's picture to single common lug of my switch? Thank you for your advice in advance!

Picture of my 1-common switch:

Image

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Post by JiM »

mrsmash23 wrote: I got 7-lug switch with only 1 common connection ( 1-2-3-C-1-2-3 type). Can I solder those 2 wires going to separated common lugs in Jim's picture to single common lug of my switch?
Oh, i did not know about those simplified switches. I don't really see the point, as it's not really cheaper to make, and marginally simpler to wire.
Unfortunately, that would not work. As you can see on the schematic, you really need two separate switch sections for that circuit.
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Post by wildschwein »

I have a few Teles and I love all these types of wiring options and will have to try some of these schemes out in one or two of them. I do have one that I put Wilde Keystone pickups in and also I added this Bill Lawrence 5-way wiring scheme. One of the options is 1/2 out-of-phase and I really dig that sound. Another sound is the neck pickup with the 0.015uf cap and that subtracts a small amount of bass from the neck sound and it's actually pretty useful:
Image

I have another one that I put a set of Wilde L45s/L48T dual blade pickups in and replaced the tone knob with an Artec varitone -- that one could be a good candidate for some extra switching options.

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Post by dyllandupont »

JiM wrote: 08 Nov 2009, 01:40 Here is a wiring scheme for such a Fat Tele (single + humbucker), providing 9 different sounds with a 5-way switch and one DPDT switch, usually a push-pull pot. This wiring should also work for 3 single coils, but it will sound a little different because the middle pickup is ... well, in the middle. It was indeed designed for a Strat : http://www.geocities.jp/dgb_studio/3svari2_e.htm#35
  • In parallel mode (pot pushed), it works like a Strat with the Middle (P-90 here) and Neck (Rail) pickups swapped. This provides the standard Tele sounds in positions 3, 4 and 5.
    1. P-90
    2. P-90 and Rail in parallel *
    3. Rail
    4. Rail and Bridge in parallel *
    5. Bridge
  • In series mode (pot pulled), we get the full humbucker, the "Tele Series" and some other things.
    1. P-90 and Rail in series (Humbucker) *
    2. P-90 (again)
    3. P-90 and Rail in series, with the tone pot in parallel with the P-90. *
    4. P-90 and Bridge in parallel
    5. Rail and Bridge in series *
* humbucking positions
Can anyone confirm that this works? I've been trying to follow this schematic for hours, and I can't figure out the paths for positions 2, 3 and 4 with the pot pulled. How does it engage the P90 in all 3 of them when the selector isn't on the hot side?

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Post by JiM »

Here is a working link for the original schematic : http://geolog.mydns.jp/www.geocities.jp ... 2_e.htm#35
3sw35.png
3sw35.png (1.02 KiB) Viewed 6309 times
With SW2 in the up position, you get a rather standard strat wiring.
In the down position, the middle lug of the upper side of the selector is connected to PU1 : it gets selected in positions 1 to 4, and PU3 is connected in position 4 and 5.
On the other side, PU2 gets connected to what was the common ground of PU1 and PU3. Like the Dan Armstrong wiring, it provides series connection of PU1 and PU2 in position 1, and PU3 in series with PU2 in position 5. Position 3 is similar to position 1, except that the tone pot gets connected in parallel with PU1.
The trick in position 2 and 4 is that the common point of the 'Y' connection of three coils gets grounded, by the adjacent contacts of the lower part of the selector, effectively disabling (shorting) PU2. Position 2 only gives PU1 (through both upper and center contacts), position 4 puts PU1 and PU3 in parallel.

I've simply applied this wiring with PU1 = P90-side, PU2 = rail-side, PU3 = bridge, instead of three single-coils.
You may also be interested in the original Dan Armstrong wiring, that provides out-of-phase options instead of PU1 and PU3 in parallel.

To help with this kind of circuit analysis, it may be useful to draw it several times, "hardwiring" the switches to better see what is connected in each position, and omit what is not connected.
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