Epiphone - Les Paul (got me a new axe)

Pickups, wiring schemes, switch techniques and onboard active electronics for guitars and basses
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Papa_lazerous
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Post by Papa_lazerous »

Hi all gone out and spent some hard earned cash on a new axe, its an Epi but I played a Gibby too and for the price difference it had to be the Epi, beautifully set up and plays 100 times better than my pacifica I already have

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Post by Dirk_Hendrik »

Congrats! Enjoy!!
Sorry. Plain out of planes.

http://www.dirk-hendrik.com

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jt
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Post by jt »

Very nice.Happy noodling
:D

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modman
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Post by modman »

Got a Les Paul off ebay too some weeks ago. Very cheapo because the bridge pickup is dead. Neck measures 8k4, bridge 14k. That's not really open, but then what is it.

Considering new pickups altogether -- acoustically is sounds like a treat. Haven't verified setup, it gutted now after investigating the pickup problem.

Wiring is a rats' nest, but was going to redo that anyway.

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Would have loved a Burst, Papa, but it didn't happen. Black sounds almost as good.
Last edited by modman on 16 Oct 2007, 09:25, edited 2 times in total.
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Papa_lazerous
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Post by Papa_lazerous »

I love the bursts just perfect in my mind as a finish goes. I am a bit hesitant about buying guitars off ebay as you dont get a chance to play them first. But sometimes if you know what you want then you can get a good deal. I am getting a much richer tone compared to my pacifica now thats for sure, me thinks the double buckers have allot to do with that ;) Certainly pushes my little Matamp over the edge quite easily
Last edited by Papa_lazerous on 16 Oct 2007, 02:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by bajaman »

Hi Modman - 14K ohms sounds about right for a bridge pickup - are you sure the wiring is okay - the pickup does not look dead to me - possibly a broken cable or wrong connection - use some high voltage 400 -630v caps when you rewire it - try Xicon or Sprague for a good responsive tone.
cheers
bajaman

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modman
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Post by modman »

bajaman wrote:Hi Modman - 14K ohms sounds about right for a bridge pickup - are you sure the wiring is okay - the pickup does not look dead to me - possibly a broken cable or wrong connection - use some high voltage 400 -630v caps when you rewire it - try Xicon or Sprague for a good responsive tone.
cheers
bajaman
hi bajaman,

Yes, started out convinced to find some flaw in the wiring, but didn't, suspected volume pot and selector switch first. In the Rhythm position is played just fine, in the combined position I hear (what I suppose is) the rhythm pickup very faintly, nothing in the treble pos. Was sure I was going to find some short.

I'm measuring 8k4 or somehting on the first humbucker in circuit, is that right?

High voltage caps make a difference? Have to order for my WEM ER-15 anyways...

Have binders full of documentation for single coil guitars, but my first les paul. Did read this because I had it within reach.

Trainwreck pages: Pickup testing
Pickup testing continued

I updated the pictures, only now did I noticed I effed up.
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bajaman
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Post by bajaman »

in the combined position I hear (what I suppose is) the rhythm pickup very faintly, nothing in the treble pos.
looks like a bad toggle switch - if the bridge pickup was dead you would hear the rythm pickup equally as good in the combined position, unless you have bad or incorrectly wired control pots :wink:
I'm measuring 8k4 or somehting on the first humbucker in circuit, is that right?
if you mean the rythm or neck pickup yes that seems to be okay.

Original vintage Gibson Les Pauls had very high output pickups in both positions - same as the ES335 type (14.5K or thereabouts)
The Double Cutaway Les Pauls (that Les Paul refused to be associated with and asked them to remove his name from the headstock ) were renamed SG - they had the lower 8.4k or thereabouts pickups, just like the ES175 and other Gibson Jazz guitars of that era.

When Norlin were producing Gibsons - they used the low strength pickups in both positions on their Les Paul guitars - what a mess.

The guitar you have ihas the best combination of pickups though in my humble opinion - the high output pickup was always too powerful and bassy in the neck position - others may disagree with me here though.

Is it a Gibson or an Epiphone????
The Gibson used an Alnico 5 slab magnet - Epiphones made in Asia used Ceramic magnets.
If you are very careful and remove the pickup covers you can tell usually by looking at the slab magnet whether it is ceramic (dull grey like most loudspeaker magnets) or shiny metallic alnico.

Stewart Macdonald do replacement Alnico 5 magnets if you have a ceramic slab - carefully remove it and replace with the alnico and welcome to smoother less biting tone like Clapton used to have ( before he fell into those active electronic strats that he now uses) :cry:

Trust me with the high voltage caps - you will here the difference, particularly with alnico magnets. :wink:
cheers
bajaman

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modman
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Post by modman »

Did I already blame my photographing skills? Papa, yours looks stunning really. Would you mind posting a pic of the control cavitiy or just telling me whether you think my wiring is stock epiphone or not. 2/4 pots a bit scratchy, I'll be ripping the whole electronics after this post. I hope

here a brigde pickup pic, Baja, it's an Epi, haven't even googled the serial yet. HOTCH?

]Image]Image

Saw Stew Mac: Alcino V only $4.29 when you order 3 sets, else $6 something
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics ... Parts.html
Man, I should stay away from such webistes, $350 coil winder!!
Last edited by modman on 16 Oct 2007, 22:23, edited 2 times in total.
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Papa_lazerous
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Post by Papa_lazerous »

yh no probs modman I will photograph tomorrow time permiting ;)

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Post by modman »

Thanks Pops! Will be very welcome.

I checked my serial on this Epiphone serial checker page, and the following turned up:
Guitar Info
Your guitar was made at the
Saein Plant, Korea/China
May 2001
Production Number: 0762

Saein Musical Instrument Co. Ltd
The Saein Musical Instrument Co. Ltd. is located in the Namdong Industrial Complex in Incheon, Korea. Saein was established in July 1st 1991 and has a monthly capacity of 4,500pcs. In Oct 1st 1992, Saien Began manufacturing guitars for Epiphone, who they now consider to be their main business. They also started producing their own line of guitars called Shine in 1997. In February, 2001, a new factory was opened in Gaomi City, China. This factory boasts a monthly capacity of 10,000pcs. Saein was presented the ‘The Best Quality Award of the Year’ by Gibson Epiphone USA in 1998 and 1999.
First digits after letter are the date code 0105 is then 2001, May

In the meantime I found continuity on the wiring from the bridge volume pot to the tone pot. Shielded wire was used with the shield serving as ground lead, making it easy for the signal to short out anywhere . I also noticed that this guitar uses 500k lin pots for volume and 500k log for tone, I'm more and more convinced this guitar has been worked on.

And right, I reinstalled the bridge pickup and wired it directly to the jack - all seems ok with the pickup indeed.

I do have some Erofoil 22n/400V caps, German stuff, richtiger Kanonen (red and fat) that I might try, also have square tropical fish caps, not sure about the rating though, ceramic HV disc date code made for by Philips for Mullard in the summer of 1965.

modm
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Papa_lazerous
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Post by Papa_lazerous »

you might have to wait another day modman.....

I got home early this morning from work and had a little unplugged play and after I gave it a thorough wiping down and clean and as I wiped up the neck I noticed a chip on the nut right beside the low E and it looked like it had a little knock and could cause me problems later, so I went to bed and when I got up I was a little miffed so I popped back to the store I got it and explained how I just noticed it and even though its minor could they put a new nut on there for me. They guy was reall apologetic and said I paid for a new axe and a new axe is what I shall get, so he done a stock check and they have one the same in a store 30 miles away and will be in this store tomorrow or friday at the latest. I am really impressed with their service he could have just turned round and said I done it! He said I can have a play on it and if I am happy with it then fine if I dont like the feel of the new one they can have a look at finding another one...

So needless to say I didnt start unscrewing covers off the back of the guitar to uncover wiring as I didnt want them to suspect I had fiddled and broke it myself.

Rest assured a pic on Thurs or Fri so you can copy stock wiring :)

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modman
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Post by modman »

Ok, no problem at all, and indeed better to keep the hood closed if you have to return it still.

Good luck, but you're in friendly hands it seems, :D
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Papa_lazerous
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Post by Papa_lazerous »

modman wrote:Ok, no problem at all, and indeed better to keep the hood closed if you have to return it still.

Good luck, but you're in friendly hands it seems, :D
definately in friendly hands yeah, funny thing is I never used to likethe store, I foudn it quite a daunting place at first as its so big and they are very geared up and professional in there. I am not a great player and quite shy with my playing. I play best on my own, I play for my own enjoyment. So trying guitars I find can be hard as some places they lean over your shoulder and can belittle you if you dont play something cool. Or at least thats how I feel. But when I tried it out the guy set me up in a little studio thats all sound proofed with a slidign glass door and said I'll leave you too it. So I got peace and quiet to get to grips with it and make music the way I like to on my own. I will definately go back for more "toys"

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Post by bajaman »

Hi Modman
500k pots are fine - glad to see the pickup is fine too. :wink:
Now carefully crack the solder holding the cover on and check the magnet :wink:
If you replace with the alnico 5 magnet slab be sure to get it around the same polarity when you slide it under the coils.
Another thing - and I do not know why - sometimes you will hear a better sound when the magnet polarity is reversed ( but you will have to reverse both pickup's magnets to retain correct phase when used together).
Use the biggest fattest caps at high voltage for the best tone - good luck with the restoration - I hope it plays well for you:wink:
cheers
bajaman

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DougH
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Post by DougH »

I've been wanting to get an Epi LP for years. Beautiful guitars.

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Papa_lazerous
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Post by Papa_lazerous »

DougH wrote:I've been wanting to get an Epi LP for years. Beautiful guitars.
well then my friend buy one :lol:

I only paid £369 for mine and if you are on the other side of the Atlantic you will no doubt get a better price than that as guitars are much better prices there

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Post by modman »

bajaman wrote:Hi Modman
500k pots are fine - glad to see the pickup is fine too. :wink:
Now carefully crack the solder holding the cover on and check the magnet :wink:
If you replace with the alnico 5 magnet slab be sure to get it around the same polarity when you slide it under the coils.
Another thing - and I do not know why - sometimes you will hear a better sound when the magnet polarity is reversed ( but you will have to reverse both pickup's magnets to retain correct phase when used together).
Use the biggest fattest caps at high voltage for the best tone - good luck with the restoration - I hope it plays well for you:wink:
cheers
bajaman
Hi Baja,

Found the culprit, didn't sayt that the last time: the volume pot wiper had worn out its connection path to the tab. I haven't ordered the magnets yet, so much to order and want to centralize, StewMac throws that off balance.

Anyway, I my 500kB in fine, but that's not just good enough for me.
:wink: I tested the pickup simply first connecting it directly to a second jack and then to the amp. I then put the bridge control circuit with small pcb mount pots on a breadboard. Just look at my tone cap fellas!

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There is a lot of noise in this setup (pot case not grounded, long wires) but it allows you to test out the effect of the control very easily. I switched in and out different pots, and concluded that a 100K tone pot and a 500k volume pot gave me tone pot that works over it's complete travel. That was the case with any 1M or 500K tone pot setup: from say 4 to 10 the control hardly added affected the tone.

I went completely by ear on this one and initially only wanted to test the tone cap. Haven't tested in combination or in comparison to the neck pickup. I might be missing something, I hope it's not volume...

I don't have full sized Gibson pots for the moment, feel like wiring up the brige pickup to play the thing while my shipping comes in.

Just crack the solder, not try to desolder it?
modm
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Post by bajaman »

Just crack the solder, not try to desolder it?
I meant desolder it sorry for the misunderstanding :oops:
cheers
bajaman

ps: be VERY careful you do not break any coil wiring - tread carefully :wink:

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modman
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Post by modman »

Yeah, I got that - like cracking the code to the alnico vault. Didn't get to that yet. How do I know what I see is alnico? Googled in vain after the indication on the pickup HOTCH. If PAF is Patent Applied For, HOTCH might be Hold Off Trying to Clone Humbuckers ? [smilie=a_chuckle.gif]

Just wanted to get this guitar working just to test and hear the stock pickups and an experiment with that 100K tone pot. It's was the most gradual taper from all the setups I tried. I suppose nobody tries this because it doesn't make any electronic sense? I had a bit less volume on the bridge pickup than on the neck, but this cannot be because of the pots, they are all open! So I raised the bridge pu a bit. It's fine now.

It was hell soldering the grounds on those pots with my 25W iron, going to get a station on Monday, tomorrow. Or no, didn't I see some DIY project on that somewhere . [smilie=offtopic.gif] [smilie=sorry.gif] Will put it in a new thread, and in the meantime a ran away with papa's thread [smilie=threadjacked.gif] . Somebody should ban me. sorry guys

Old wiring:
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New wiring:
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