Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

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Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby mictester » 08 Aug 2011, 16:29

pedalguru wrote:And please enlighten us mictester:  How well does the original MKII tonebender circuit work if you simply replace the germanium transistors with silicon transistors?


If all you've done is put silicon transistors in place of the original germanium ones, then it'll show you up for the ignorant buffoon you are!

There is no mojo whatsoever in the values of the resistors in the Tonebender circuits. It's trivially easy to calculate sets of values that will work well (unless you're a "pedalguru").

The only marginally intelligent thing about the "design" is the use of the CA3046, because it has fairly low gain transistors (by modern standards), and the Tonebender usually works best with lower hfe devices.

The really clever part was duping Little lance into believeing that you were selling him the rights to use a "unique fuzz chip". His whole advertising campaign was based around that lie!

PCBs coming up shortly for a properly designed, electronically switched, high quality, cheap-to-build silicon Tonebender with a couple of extra features, using a transistor array! I can't wait for Little Lance to try to sue me under the DMCA!!!
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Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby Hides-His-Eyes » 08 Aug 2011, 16:31

All this talk of macaroons is making me hungry
Testing, testing, won too fwee

For this message the author Hides-His-Eyes has received thanks:
bodyisajerk (04 Dec 2011, 01:25)
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Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby culturejam » 08 Aug 2011, 16:33

Hides-His-Eyes wrote:All this talk of macaroons is making me hungry

I love macaroons! Around Passover here, all the stores start carrying 20 varieties of macaroons. It's awesome. :thumbsup
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Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby tube-exorcist » 08 Aug 2011, 16:35

pedalguru wrote:
Yes, a virtual, it is inside the transistor. Ever heard about leakage ?


Yes. But I've also heard that semiconductor junction leakage is usually represented as a current source, not a resistor. There is a big difference. Have you heard?

No, I havent heard that a resistor represents a voltage source.

If the collector voltage of the second transistor in the Fuzz Face part varies, does that have an effect on the duty cycle ?


All this harping on about the temp stability of the FF section: Be careful, because another position taken by your compadres is that Si circuits are already temperature stable enough that making claims of temp stability are redundant.

Are you now suggesting that there may actually be something to it?
[/quote]
I am not the compadres, and I stated my experience from practice above.

Look, I think we can at least agree that the amount of drift for a Si FF is negligible for all practical purposes.

No, we can´t, because this has more influence than the impedance of the input stage.
You could add circuitry to make it sensibly zero drift, but you would be well beyond the limit of diminishing returns, and in this particular instance mictester would have a good case to claim the effort was a waste of parts and battery current.

At least it would be a better use of the chip and battery current, you only need to use one transistor (with a comparable large current through it) to heaten up the chip to 50 degrees C, another transistor configured as diode as a voltage reference (2mV/C) and an additional opamp for regulation.

I would expect this from somebody who claims to have designed a temperature insensitive device, because this has already been done in the 70´s in synthesizers. There were even chips made with all inside: a google search for "uA726" will lead you to the informations.

So what is now with the scope-screenhots of the rectal-chanel fuzz from 0 degrees C (in steps of 10 degrees) up to 50 degrees C ? This are only 6 screenshots to proof your claim....
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Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby RnFR » 08 Aug 2011, 16:38

I want to hear more about the "proprietary chipset".




macaroons.
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Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby pedalguru » 08 Aug 2011, 16:53

No, we can´t, because this has more influence than the impedance of the input stage.


Can you back this up with the relevant circuit theory? If an input stage always dominates the output noise level of an amplifier circuit, why can't it dominate other aspects of the overall circuit characteristic as well? You glibly state that input impedance is a minor factor, but it does after all determine the input signal power, and the output signal is after all the product of the input signal power, multiplied by the power gain of the circuit, is it not? Or are tonebenders and such governed by completely different physics than other electronic circuits?
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Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby RnFR » 08 Aug 2011, 17:04

proprietary?
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Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby culturejam » 08 Aug 2011, 17:05

RnFR wrote:proprietary?

Macaroons?
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Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby RnFR » 08 Aug 2011, 17:08

stop it! I'm trying to get to sleep, and yer makin me jones for Jewish cookies.





proprietary.
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Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby Hides-His-Eyes » 08 Aug 2011, 17:16

Why do the jews make everything chewy? Chewy cakes, chewy bread...?
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Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby coldcraft » 08 Aug 2011, 17:20

is there a small signal mosfet or jfet DIP package array in existence?
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Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby RnFR » 08 Aug 2011, 17:22

pretty sure about mosfets.
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Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby tube-exorcist » 08 Aug 2011, 17:29

pedalguru wrote:
No, we can´t, because this has more influence than the impedance of the input stage.


Can you back this up with the relevant circuit theory?

First of all I don´t need to back up anything. It´s YOU who claims "temperature insensitivity" for the Rectal-Fuzz. This means to the average customer, NO CHANGE IN SOUND over a temperature range of at least 0 C to 50 C. And this YOU have to proof, not anybod else, otherwise it is a misleading false claim.

Second we are talking about a "dirt-pedal" with input of a guitar and output a DISTORTED signal (something like a square wave). If you don´t know it y now, a (cranked) Fuzz-Face is an amplifier without any AC-feedback. In an amplifier the AC-feedback reduces the THD. So the "engine" who generates the sound is the Fuzz-Face part. You can see it as an sound generator (oszillator) which is synced to the input signal.

If an input stage always dominates the output noise level of an amplifier circuit, why can't it dominate other aspects of the overall circuit characteristic as well?

what has input noise to do with a "generated" square wave ?
The generated square-wave will MASK most of the influence of the input stage.

So again dor you:
"A change in duty cycle of a square wave will have more influence on the sound than the load of the input impedance of a preamp on the guitar."

It is up to YOU to proof that the Rectal-Fuzz doesn´t have any sound change over a temperature rang from 0 C to 50 C.

I only doubt this with the actual circuit, and gave records about my concerns.

YOU HAVE TO PROOF THAT MY CONCERNS ARE NOT VALID, BECAUSE YOU CLAIM THE TEMPERATURE INSENSITIVITY OF THE RECTAL-FUZZ TO SELL THE UNITS TO CUSTOMERS !

So you have to show a scope-picture of the behaviour of the Rectal-Fuzz at 0 C up to 50 C to proof your marketing-claim. Don´t you have such pictures because you didn´t do this test before ? How can you justify your claims ?
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Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby tube-exorcist » 08 Aug 2011, 19:45

While waiting for pedalguru´s scope-pictures of the Rectal-Chanel Fuzz at different temperatures here the demo of an upcoming new Rectal pedal: The Tremolo - Silence is Golden

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n03g8nsaBro
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Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby freq67 » 08 Aug 2011, 21:15

tube-exorcist wrote:
pedalguru wrote:Glad you bring this up, because it basically is all you have been able to present to defend your position so far.  Ask yourself:  Does the original germanium design have a resistor from collector to base?  No.

Yes, a virtual, it is inside the transistor. Ever heard about leakage ?

Does the original germanium design have a resistor between emitter and ground?  No.  Would this somehow change the input impedance from the point of view of the guitar?  Yes.

Yes, the emitter resistor will increase the input impedance. If it gets too high for you, you can simply add a resistor with the desired impedance at the input.
Do things such as input impedance affect how a pedal sounds?  Yes.

see above
Therefore, is it the best possible solution to replacing the germanium input transistor with a silicon transistor, if the objective is to make it sound exactly the same?

I'll leave you to figure that out for yourself.

I figured, and now I have another question:
If the input stage is so important for the sound, why don´t you ommit the Fuzz Face part ?

And yes:
If the collector voltage of the second transistor in the Fuzz Face part varies, does that have an effect on the duty cycle ?

Maybe you could be so kind and make some tests on an rectal-chanel pcb ? It is easy, you only need a cold-spray, a heating gun and an oscilloscope. Or should I do that for you and present the results ? I only don´t want that you will say: That´s a different circuit.

So what do you think will have more effect on the sound:
The input impedance, or the duty cycle of the square wave generated by the Fuzz Face part ?



Just a heads up don't waste your cash getting cold spray .just get a can of gust or something similar and just turn it upside down and spray......now you have something that serves two purposes in one.
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Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby GuitarlCarl » 09 Aug 2011, 02:07

That pg cat is OBVIOUSLY from "The" company who makes this crap pedal... and he is trying to be the doublespeak champion, but anyone who can follow isn't fooled by his bull. If I'm wrong sorry. If I'm right, don't belittle our intelligence with your crap.

Dude, it doesn't HAVE to be an array to work, it's a freakin' tonebender. :block:
It's not germanium, so it doesn't need temp stabilization...
Everyone knows if you swap silicon for germanium you have to change the bias resistors so quit talking direct swap crap.
Not all of us are smart enough to debunk the scammers, but all of us together can see thru your goop.
We already have a guru, AG!

I've also read in this thread, worry about hurting someones business... I believe the intent here is educational, if you learn that someone is ripping people off by lying thru their teeth, you've been educated. Of course some folks have to be schooled by being ripped off, I feel for them, but if they were really all about the internet they wouldn't have been burned. rfnr, thanks for the comma, it WAS supposed to be there...

I still wouldn't put much stock in talk from peeps with 4 posts and less than a week here...
I want it to sound like bees buzzing around in a 55 gallon drum...
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Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby RnFR » 09 Aug 2011, 02:15

I didnt do the comma thing, but you are welcome.

i still have a few of questions. at what temperature does a Si tonebender start to be affected? no.2- why did you have to buy a pedal that you designed? no. 3- did you ever get that simple splitter/looper figured out??
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Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby osa » 09 Aug 2011, 02:21

pedalguru=Lance Keltner
No doubt about this.
I have all the proof you guys need to see.
If a moderator is interested; please PM me.
Have you lost your mind? People are only interested in building fuzz boxes!
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Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby jreeves47 » 09 Aug 2011, 02:32

I'd like to see your proof, out of curiosity
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Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby osa » 09 Aug 2011, 02:36

With all due respect:
osa wrote:...If a moderator is interested; please PM me.

Please try to understand.
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