Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Have a look here for general information about the forum, rules and announcements.

Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby coldcraft » 08 Aug 2011, 04:10

i second that emotion.
Black Dynamite wrote:you need to shut the fuck up when grown folks is talkin.
User avatar
coldcraft
Diode Debunker
 
Posts: 733
Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 02:00
Has thanked: 42 times
Have thanks: 83 times

Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby coldcraft » 08 Aug 2011, 04:12

coldcraft wrote:i second that emotion.


oh god, I just realize I've become that guy that quotes songs and makes up parody lyrics, just to be entertaining. I'm "THAT GUY".

I really hope you don't think less of me, because I'm not sure I could stop.
Black Dynamite wrote:you need to shut the fuck up when grown folks is talkin.
User avatar
coldcraft
Diode Debunker
 
Posts: 733
Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 02:00
Has thanked: 42 times
Have thanks: 83 times

Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby RnFR » 08 Aug 2011, 04:16

look, Si tonebenders- no array!!! no fancy superfluous temperature circuit needed. unless, of course, you are playing gigs in your oven, on the planet Venus, or the depths of Hades.

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main. ... ewsIndex=1


http://freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7767

now please explain this "circuit theory". facts not fiction, mr. guru.
"You've converted me to Cubic thinking. Where do I sign up for the newsletter? I need to learn more about how I can break free from ONEism Death Math." - Soulsonic

Blog-APOCALYPSE AUDIO
User avatar
RnFR
Old Solderhand
 
Posts: 5136
Joined: 09 Jan 2008, 07:02
Location: Inner Earth
Has thanked: 138 times
Have thanks: 170 times

Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby pedalguru » 08 Aug 2011, 04:19

Don't know what you mean by gigs in your oven?

What you posted is not a valid argument.

Are you a designer? An engineer?
pedalguru
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 23 Jul 2011, 14:35
Has thanked: 0 time
Have thanks: 0 time

Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby Greenmachine » 08 Aug 2011, 04:22

pedalguru wrote:Don't know what you mean by gigs in your oven?

What you posted is not a valid argument.



He's referring to a transistor changing in various heat conditions.

What you've posted is not a valid argument. Back up your claim. I can't believe I have to explain this to you.
"[Y]ou want sketchy, dude? I breadboard on a door." -- RnFR, 2011
"This amp is freakin loud, like crazy, I'm going to kill pets loud." -- mich, 2011
User avatar
Greenmachine
Cap Cooler
 
Posts: 621
Joined: 31 Aug 2008, 18:59
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Has thanked: 102 times
Have thanks: 19 times

Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby RnFR » 08 Aug 2011, 04:23

no more questions from you. you made a claim, now back it up. why is an array needed?
"You've converted me to Cubic thinking. Where do I sign up for the newsletter? I need to learn more about how I can break free from ONEism Death Math." - Soulsonic

Blog-APOCALYPSE AUDIO
User avatar
RnFR
Old Solderhand
 
Posts: 5136
Joined: 09 Jan 2008, 07:02
Location: Inner Earth
Has thanked: 138 times
Have thanks: 170 times

Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby pedalguru » 08 Aug 2011, 04:29

You sound like the soup nazi

"no more questions from you" :lol:
pedalguru
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 23 Jul 2011, 14:35
Has thanked: 0 time
Have thanks: 0 time

Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby RnFR » 08 Aug 2011, 04:31

alright, you are obviously just a clueless troll. please don't make claims on technical matters of which you have no understanding. it makes you look really stupid.
"You've converted me to Cubic thinking. Where do I sign up for the newsletter? I need to learn more about how I can break free from ONEism Death Math." - Soulsonic

Blog-APOCALYPSE AUDIO
User avatar
RnFR
Old Solderhand
 
Posts: 5136
Joined: 09 Jan 2008, 07:02
Location: Inner Earth
Has thanked: 138 times
Have thanks: 170 times

Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby pedalguru » 08 Aug 2011, 04:43

The issues that you didn't address and you are an expert so you should easily be able to do so

Were


1. The circuit actually requires a transistor array to work correctly.  The circuit theory upon which its operation is based does not hold up for discrete transistors, therefore it can't be a copy of an existing discrete design with only a transistor array substituted for the discrete transistors, as claimed.

2.  Instead of baseless insinuation, prove that it is nothing new by identifying the existing manufactured pedal that uses the exact same circuit topology.

By the way.
Have you ever produced any products that have been marketed and actually purchased by humans or are you an armchair quarterback?

Just trying to guage who it is that is calling troll here.
pedalguru
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 23 Jul 2011, 14:35
Has thanked: 0 time
Have thanks: 0 time

Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby RnFR » 08 Aug 2011, 04:49

you have no idea what you are talking about. let me spell it out to you-


TRANSISTOR ARRAYS ARE MADE UP OF DISCRETE TRANSISTORS. THEY ARE A NUMBER OF "DISCRETE" TRANSISTORS IN ONE PACKAGE. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "DISCRETE" TRANSISTORS AND THOSE IN AN ARRAY. AN ARRAY IS NOTHING MORE THAN A NUMBER OF "DISCRETE" DEVICES.

now do you understand why your question doesn't make any sense?

I just linked to two designs in my post above. one of which has been around for years. the original circuit is a TONEBENDER. it's been around for 40 years! the only difference is silicon transistors!


not that it makes any difference at all to the subject at hand, but yes- I have designed and sold pedals in the past. now stop acting like a troll, and go read some electronics texts.
"You've converted me to Cubic thinking. Where do I sign up for the newsletter? I need to learn more about how I can break free from ONEism Death Math." - Soulsonic

Blog-APOCALYPSE AUDIO
User avatar
RnFR
Old Solderhand
 
Posts: 5136
Joined: 09 Jan 2008, 07:02
Location: Inner Earth
Has thanked: 138 times
Have thanks: 170 times

Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby pedalguru » 08 Aug 2011, 05:13

Oh yes there are a number of differences:

To name just a few significant ones:

Excellent Vbe matching
Excellent Hfe matching
Inherently close thermal tracking

Do you not understand the basic principle of (e.g.) a current mirror, and why they are used extensively in IC design and not so much in the world of discrete transistors?  Do you still insist there are no differences between transistors fabricated together on a die (which is what a transistor array is) and individually manufactured discrete transistors?  Perhaps you are not the circuit theory "expert" you would have us all believe you are after all.
pedalguru
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 23 Jul 2011, 14:35
Has thanked: 0 time
Have thanks: 0 time

Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby rocklander » 08 Aug 2011, 05:17

so (and please excuse me, I'm a singer, not a tech) you're saying that a transistor array is affectively an array of very well matched transistors?

if so, then why can't set of matched transistors not replace them in the (discussed) cct?
world's greatest tautologist ...in the world

Ronsonic wrote:...the lower the stakes the more vicious the combat.

User avatar
rocklander
Old Solderhand
 
Posts: 2887
Joined: 18 Apr 2008, 12:33
Location: Rotorua, New Zealand
Has thanked: 1559 times
Have thanks: 287 times

Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby jreeves47 » 08 Aug 2011, 05:17

dude it's a tonebender cmon.
jreeves47
Breadboard Brother
 
Posts: 95
Joined: 16 Sep 2010, 23:59
Has thanked: 36 times
Have thanks: 18 times

Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby RnFR » 08 Aug 2011, 05:27

pedalguru wrote:Oh yes there are a number of differences:

To name just a few significant ones:

Excellent Vbe matching
Excellent Hfe matching
Inherently close thermal tracking

Do you not understand the basic principle of (e.g.) a current mirror, and why they are used extensively in IC design and not so much in the world of discrete transistors?  Do you still insist there are no differences between transistors fabricated together on a die (which is what a transistor array is) and individually manufactured discrete transistors?  Perhaps you are not the circuit theory "expert" you would have us all believe you are after all.
well, if you ask the same questions over and over like a dunce, you are going to get the simple answer. my point being-
none of this matters in a silicon tonebender. why dont you tell me how hot it would actually have to get before any of that matching actually starts to make a difference? sounds to me like you are just trying to justify something with a bunch of pointless unwarranted technobabble. something you might have some sort of personal stake in perhaps?


oh, and I never claimed to be an expert. i just claimed not to be a sucker.
"You've converted me to Cubic thinking. Where do I sign up for the newsletter? I need to learn more about how I can break free from ONEism Death Math." - Soulsonic

Blog-APOCALYPSE AUDIO
User avatar
RnFR
Old Solderhand
 
Posts: 5136
Joined: 09 Jan 2008, 07:02
Location: Inner Earth
Has thanked: 138 times
Have thanks: 170 times

Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby SGJarrod » 08 Aug 2011, 05:32

jreeves47 wrote:dude it's a tonebender cmon.



zactly, I mean ProGuitarShop did a tribute vid to Led Zepplin with this pedal... Why?...cuz JP used a Tonebender on those songs.... It does these songs well cuz its a Tonebender curcuit with a "Well Matched" transistor array vs individual trans

aren't we looking at basically the same thing here as the Swollen Pickle to the BMP..... just go back 15yrs or so and look at the history there.... its a repeat
SGJarrod
 
Posts: 39
Joined: 20 Aug 2010, 17:57
Has thanked: 8 times
Have thanks: 2 times

Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby mictester » 08 Aug 2011, 08:34

pedalguru wrote:Don't know what you mean by gigs in your oven?

What you posted is not a valid argument.

Are you a designer? An engineer?


Yes. I am. A professional, chartered engineer with over 30 years of commercial experience.

The silly "Retro Channel" copy of a silicon Tonebender using a transistor array is a truly appalling piece of "design" - if you actually had the real status of "guru", you'd know that. You'd also know that temperature compensation in a simple silicon Tonebender is a waste of components and will do nothing useful except draw a little more current than is necessary from the battery.

The "designer" of this product had obviously seen the use of transistor arrays in logarithmic converters and other temperature sensitive circuits, and has ignorantly tacked this on to a simple Tonebender circuit. This "designer" has sold this "concept" to Little Lance and is probably now laughing at the flack that Retro Channel is now taking for their fraudulent advertising ("fuzz chip" :roll: ). Little Lance doesn't know anything about electronics, and sticks to the lines he was given by his "designer"...

I've been using transistor arrays in effects since transistor arrays became available nearly 40 years ago. I've also used FET arrays in phasers and distortion boxes. I've also used transistor and FET arrays in voltage-controlled amplifiers and oscillators for many years....

I've been designing and building effects since the late 1960s, so might have just about achieved "guru" status. You certainly haven't if you think that Little Lance has added anything to the art of pedal electronics.
"Why is it humming?" "Because it doesn't know the words!"
User avatar
mictester
Old Solderhand
 
Posts: 2871
Joined: 11 Sep 2008, 21:29
Location: In the hills of North London
Has thanked: 32 times
Have thanks: 779 times

Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby mictester » 08 Aug 2011, 08:40

pedalguru wrote:Oh yes there are a number of differences:

To name just a few significant ones:

Excellent Vbe matching
Excellent Hfe matching
Inherently close thermal tracking


All of the above may be correct, but NONE of the above matter in a Tonebender circuit!

pedalguru wrote:Do you not understand the basic principle of (e.g.) a current mirror, and why they are used extensively in IC design and not so much in the world of discrete transistors?  Do you still insist there are no differences between transistors fabricated together on a die (which is what a transistor array is) and individually manufactured discrete transistors?  Perhaps you are not the circuit theory "expert" you would have us all believe you are after all.


Yes, I fully understand the principles of current mirrors and all other IC configurations. NONE of these are applicable in a Tonebender.

Is this "Little Lance" with a new pseudonym? He seems similarly stupid! Obviously a "guru" of bicycle, brake or throttle pedals - doesn't seem to know anything about electronics!
"Why is it humming?" "Because it doesn't know the words!"
User avatar
mictester
Old Solderhand
 
Posts: 2871
Joined: 11 Sep 2008, 21:29
Location: In the hills of North London
Has thanked: 32 times
Have thanks: 779 times

Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby Seiche » 08 Aug 2011, 09:30

pedalguru wrote:Oh yes there are a number of differences:
To name just a few significant ones:

Excellent Vbe matching
Excellent Hfe matching
Inherently close thermal tracking

pedalguru wrote:Do you not understand the basic principle of (e.g.) a current mirror, and why they are used extensively in IC design and not so much in the world of discrete transistors?  Do you still insist there are no differences between transistors fabricated together on a die (which is what a transistor array is) and individually manufactured discrete transistors?  Perhaps you are not the circuit theory "expert" you would have us all believe you are after all.

mictester wrote: This "designer" has sold this "concept" to Little Lance and is probably now laughing at the flack that Retro Channel is now taking for their fraudulent advertising ("fuzz chip" :roll: ). Little Lance doesn't know anything about electronics, and sticks to the lines he was given by his "designer"...

pedalguru = designer of """"the fuzz""""??? :hmmm:

certainly sounds like it.
User avatar
Seiche
Tube Twister
 
Posts: 2428
Joined: 01 Nov 2010, 01:16
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 221 times
Have thanks: 143 times

Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby Hides-His-Eyes » 08 Aug 2011, 10:31

Whocares wrote:
GuitarlCarl wrote:Ok little brother, your lucky you didn't BUY it... All in all, most if not all of your questions have been answered. The question about selling a degooped pedal has me wondering why you would ask? NO ONE here would sell a pedal that did not work, and degooping only uncovers what was hidden beneath. Don't be alarmed if you fall under scrutiny, its just that there have been some recent trolls seemingly sent by FB and /or others... if your not welcome. :blackeye


Oh...but I did buy it. The seller contacted me after I gave him neutral feedback. Said although he knew about it he wasnt sure if the fraud was true. I've seen the pics. A blindman would know its true.
I asked about the de-gooping because if I'm bidding on one of these someday I'd want to know if it was taken apart.
Think about it. Go on Ebay. lets see..sellers still selling Alphas as if they are doing you a favor so you dont have to wait. Lovepedals getting 50 - 75 bucks tagged on to them cause people dont know to sign up for a newsletter that would offer a new pedal for a proper price. Tims and Timmy's getting marked up to no end.
Quite frankly...if you dont keep your head in the internet theres a ripoff around every corner.
So than theres this de-gooping for educational purposes. So I look into de-gooping. Theres a very fair chance damage will happen during this process. Its the skill of the person reconstructing the damage that determines if a pedal sold after this process is really what it was suppose to be.
So you say no one here would resell a project to an unknowing buyer. I guess I have to take your word for it. It was worth asking.
As far as the other answers..the same...if you claim your not looking to harm someones business than I'll have to take your words for that as well. I understand everthing that was posted. As much as you want to blame the builders....I tend to blame the resellers.



Depends what that business is doing now, doesn't it? :)

All we're looking to do is find the truth.
Testing, testing, won too fwee
User avatar
Hides-His-Eyes
Tube Twister
 
Posts: 2015
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 13:34
Has thanked: 53 times
Have thanks: 84 times

Re: Important: boutique sections closed... DMCA kicks in.

Postby tube-exorcist » 08 Aug 2011, 10:46

pedalguru wrote:Oh yes there are a number of differences:

To name just a few significant ones:

Excellent Vbe matching
Excellent Hfe matching
Inherently close thermal tracking


Thanks for the info ! Now I understand better why Marshall used a transistor array for channel switching:

Marshall-2210-switching.gif


pedalguru wrote:Do you not understand the basic principle of (e.g.) a current mirror, and why they are used extensively in IC design and not so much in the world of discrete transistors?  Do you still insist there are no differences between transistors fabricated together on a die (which is what a transistor array is) and individually manufactured discrete transistors?  Perhaps you are not the circuit theory "expert" you would have us all believe you are after all.

Good to have you here for technical explanations. Maybe you can tell me, where there is a current mirror used in the Retro Channel design ? The differential pair is not used for that, it is not even used as a differential pair..... BTW, the Fuzz Face part is NOT temperature stabilized, only the first transistor stage, can you tell me why ? :hmmm:

Thanks in advance.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"I've noticed there's an inverse relationship between cost of gear and talent. If you need the most expensive gear to get decent tones, then you suck as a player."
tube-exorcist
Cap Cooler
 
Posts: 463
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 21:09
Has thanked: 210 times
Have thanks: 75 times

PreviousNext

Return to Announcements and Forum Rules

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest