Matter on flux...

[Brian M]

You use water to clean flux. That's how you do it. They make flux that comes off with water. You put the board under the tap in the sink and scrub it with a toothbrush. Then, you use compressed air to dry it out. That's how the folks at the assembly place I used to work at did it. If you have to do many at a time, then perhaps you could invest in a board washer... which is something sort of like a dishwasher, except for circuit boards. It uses water, too.

But, I'm not going to be critical about there being flux on your boards because it's really doesn't matter anyway other than being kinda ugly. I might complain about it if it were a $400 overdrive, but it ain't, so who cares.

What's wrong with acetone? I use acetone every day in my normal process of pedal building. It's really not bad to be around if the room is ventilated and you're wearing gloves. Building electronics involves being around dangerous chemicals and elements; that's part of the job. You wear proper gear and take the proper precautions and just deal with it.

Maybe it's because I come from an industrial background having worked in factory environments... electronics was a welcome change and is much cleaner than other things I've done.

I dunno about that man... the smell of acetone gives me a headache after a while. I used to use it a lot, but once I hired employees I basically took as many nasty chemicals as I could out of the work environment. Spent about $1000 on a fume extractor so no one would have to inhale solder fumes too. If you look at MSD sheets they say that acetone is not much more than a mild irritant... they said asbestos was safe years ago. All I know is acetone makes me feel like crap if I'm around it for hours.

[soulsonic]

Yeah, Brian... I agree about acetone.
But that's why I always cap the container up immediately after using and I only use it intermittently throughout the day... I totally know what you're talking about with it making you feel like crap when your around the fumes constantly. When I worked at Weber I was around acetone fumes all day long and it was miserable. But worse than the acetone was the superglue accelerant stuff that they'd spray from modified airbrushes... it was some kind of nastiness made from heptane along with other joyful things that probably shouldn't be atomized and inhaled... no masks, no fume hoods, sometimes maybe a fan if you were lucky.
We would sometimes spray bugs with it... they would die very quickly.
The "black glue" was so horrifying, you could actually see the mirage of the invisible vapors coming from the container when you opened it. Some day, I should ask Ben what was in the stuff they used to "blacken" the pole pieces... all I remember was it was a crock pot full of fuming evil and Ben would throw the shiny new pole pieces in there and they would oxidize and turn black within moments. That whole place was/is a gigantic OSHA violation.

[IggY]

Nic: use an ultrasonic bath for cleaning!

[Brian M]

Yeah, Brian... I agree about acetone.
But that's why I always cap the container up immediately after using and I only use it intermittently throughout the day... I totally know what you're talking about with it making you feel like crap when your around the fumes constantly. When I worked at Weber I was around acetone fumes all day long and it was miserable. But worse than the acetone was the superglue accelerant stuff that they'd spray from modified airbrushes... it was some kind of nastiness made from heptane along with other joyful things that probably shouldn't be atomized and inhaled... no masks, no fume hoods, sometimes maybe a fan if you were lucky.
We would sometimes spray bugs with it... they would die very quickly.
The "black glue" was so horrifying, you could actually see the mirage of the invisible vapors coming from the container when you opened it. Some day, I should ask Ben what was in the stuff they used to "blacken" the pole pieces... all I remember was it was a crock pot full of fuming evil and Ben would throw the shiny new pole pieces in there and they would oxidize and turn black within moments. That whole place was/is a gigantic OSHA violation.

I worked for a place that was pretty bad like that. They made high end joysticks back in the mid 90's. enclosed cramped room of minimum wage workers soldering with nothing but a fan to blow the fumes towards the guy working next to you. There were two guys using solder pots next to us... with the pots just sitting on rickety tables, one of which fell over at one point when someone ran a parts cart in to the table. Luckily no one was hurt. And then there was the constant smell of melted plastic because half the people who worked there couldn't hold their iron straight... and the worst part, they basically made you eat your lunch at your work station if you wanted to stay inside. I saw guys setting sandwiches down right on the workbench they had been soldering at two minutes before. ICK.

[ShortScaleMike]

Personally I think it looks well designed and built. I'm also a fan of the board approach and the comment.

It also sounds fantastic in all the clips and videos I've heard. It seems to be a really great product. I like Catalinbread.

[Seishin]

You use water to clean flux. That's how you do it. They make flux that comes off with water. You put the board under the tap in the sink and scrub it with a toothbrush. Then, you use compressed air to dry it out. That's how the folks at the assembly place I used to work at did it. If you have to do many at a time, then perhaps you could invest in a board washer... which is something sort of like a dishwasher, except for circuit boards. It uses water, too.

But, I'm not going to be critical about there being flux on your boards because it's really doesn't matter anyway other than being kinda ugly. I might complain about it if it were a $400 overdrive, but it ain't, so who cares.

What's wrong with acetone? I use acetone every day in my normal process of pedal building. It's really not bad to be around if the room is ventilated and you're wearing gloves. Building electronics involves being around dangerous chemicals and elements; that's part of the job. You wear proper gear and take the proper precautions and just deal with it.

Maybe it's because I come from an industrial background having worked in factory environments... electronics was a welcome change and is much cleaner than other things I've done.

I've tried a water soluble solder. I shit you not, one in ten builds worked. I have a box of pop'd Semaphore boards I sat aside to someday figure out WHY. I thought it was the guy building it so later that night I built 3 SCODs using this solder NONE worked! Shrugs. About the board washer machine do you have a link to a manufacturer?

[Spewbag]

We have a tub of Isopropal alcohol . The key is to not wait to long after soldering. We take a brush with a larger head and lightly and quickly scrub the boards. rinse boards in distilled water and set to dry.

Do you have one right there to look at? If not how do you know there is too much solder for the diameter of each pad? I see a lot of "bubbles" in that pic that are indeed IRL pretty little tents of solder.

BTW, I could use a tip. We are making 50-70 pedals a day. We used to clean everyone with spray brake cleaner, but couldn't find a good place to puddle up the drip off and at $8 a can it was way too expensive. So we started using acetone and an old toothbrush... However fumes are no good, skin contact isn't great, and its combustible. What would you suggest using to clean this number of boards each day?

Well I strongly disagree with you and I think your info is flawed.......Please show me some literature where flux and foreign objects such as dust and dirt is a myth??? And again my opinion is that he uses way to much solder. Much less solder would be a structurally better hold.

Number one: Anything that gets soldered in my shop gets cleaned.It's the practices of the majority of board house in the U.S. as well as over seas,It looks professional and doesn't take much time to do.

Number two: Regardless if flux is no-clean or not it does attract foreign substances. at best it can attract dust ,dirt and whatever foreign crap thats at your gig area and at worst all it takes is one clipped guitar string,washer or any other metal to get stuck on there and created a nice short.

Bottom line it's lazy not to clean up after your work.


P.S. There also WAY too much solder on those joints..........Someone needs to take a class.

I strongly disagree with your points, and I think you're propogating some flawed information.

The flux is a non-issue. There's no property of it that would or would not "attract" particles, thats a common myth. Second, the solder joints are fine. Thick, but fine. Recently, Nic commented that out of 6,000 Catalinbread units shipped in the last few years, only 10 had issues, and a few of those weren't construction/part related. The joints are nothing to worry about.

[Seishin]

Yeah, Brian... I agree about acetone.
But that's why I always cap the container up immediately after using and I only use it intermittently throughout the day... I totally know what you're talking about with it making you feel like crap when your around the fumes constantly. When I worked at Weber I was around acetone fumes all day long and it was miserable. But worse than the acetone was the superglue accelerant stuff that they'd spray from modified airbrushes... it was some kind of nastiness made from heptane along with other joyful things that probably shouldn't be atomized and inhaled... no masks, no fume hoods, sometimes maybe a fan if you were lucky.
We would sometimes spray bugs with it... they would die very quickly.
The "black glue" was so horrifying, you could actually see the mirage of the invisible vapors coming from the container when you opened it. Some day, I should ask Ben what was in the stuff they used to "blacken" the pole pieces... all I remember was it was a crock pot full of fuming evil and Ben would throw the shiny new pole pieces in there and they would oxidize and turn black within moments. That whole place was/is a gigantic OSHA violation.

Yikes I just ordered a Revibe from Weber. Unless you are talking about the grill company.

[Brian M]

We have a tub of Isopropal alcohol . The key is to not wait to long after soldering. We take a brush with a larger head and lightly and quickly scrub the boards. rinse boards in distilled water and set to dry.

Not always very easy with through hole, since it's unlikely that all the components would be mounted soldered at once. I suppose you could wash each time, but that would add quite a bit to the build time, and I'm sure that extra cost would be passed on to the consumer.

[soulsonic]

heheh.... Good luck with that. I think the ReVibe is one of the more "developed" kits they sell, so you should be safe.

Yikes I just ordered a Revibe from Weber. Unless you are talking about the grill company.

I don't know any specific models off-hand... just one of those things I've seen at some places, but never really thought about who made it. I did some searching and found this... looks like the sort of thing I've seen: http://www.speedlinetech.com/accel/microline.aspx
Obviously, it's not a small purchase.... but maybe you can find one on the salvage market at a reasonable price. There's a local place that sell lots of second-hand industrial equipment related to electronics; next time I'm there, I'll ask them about pcb washers.

ooohhh... here's a big one: http://www.speedlinetech.com/electrovert/aquastorm.aspx

[Brian M]

but maybe you can find one on the salvage market at a reasonable price. There's a local place that sell lots of second-hand industrial equipment related to electronics; next time I'm there, I'll ask them about pcb washers.

You gotta watch out for those surplus industrial equipment sellers though. 90% of them are total rip offs, or at least ask some ridiculous price to start out and expect you to haggle with them. At my old job we were looking for a smaller, more mobile high current test set, and the quotes we got for used were actually more than the new price direct from the manufacturer. Main things i learned with companies like this is they have a huge network of places they call and email to find stuff, and it often gets marked up several times along the way. If you are not a repeat customer spending lots of money on a yearly basis they rarely take you seriously.... and most of all, don't talk to anyone who doesn't have what you want IN STOCK.

[Seishin]

heheh.... Good luck with that. I think the ReVibe is one of the more "developed" kits they sell, so you should be safe.

Yikes I just ordered a Revibe from Weber. Unless you are talking about the grill company.

I don't know any specific models off-hand... just one of those things I've seen at some places, but never really thought about who made it. I did some searching and found this... looks like the sort of thing I've seen: http://www.speedlinetech.com/accel/microline.aspx
Obviously, it's not a small purchase.... but maybe you can find one on the salvage market at a reasonable price. There's a local place that sell lots of second-hand industrial equipment related to electronics; next time I'm there, I'll ask them about pcb washers.

ooohhh... here's a big one: http://www.speedlinetech.com/electrovert/aquastorm.aspx

NICE! I will see if my credit union will give me a loan! :p This big equipment is great fun, really though we're a baby operation.

Are you in in the Kokomo area, Soulsonic?

[soulsonic]

Are you in in the Kokomo area, Soulsonic?

Yes, home to both Weber Speakers and a failing electronics industry - hence, the ready availability of industrial electronics-related salvage. There's an entire IC foundry sitting unused in one of the factories... all that gear just waiting to be sold off.

This isn't an area I'd recommend visiting... there's not much to do.
Though, it is a great environment for

[Spewbag]

I'm not talking get done washing in hours here more like days. I do ten boards wash ,set aside, do ten more ect......

We have a tub of Isopropal alcohol . The key is to not wait to long after soldering. We take a brush with a larger head and lightly and quickly scrub the boards. rinse boards in distilled water and set to dry.

Not always very easy with through hole, since it's unlikely that all the components would be mounted soldered at once. I suppose you could wash each time, but that would add quite a bit to the build time, and I'm sure that extra cost would be passed on to the consumer.

[Seishin]

Are you in in the Kokomo area, Soulsonic?

Yes, home to both Weber Speakers and a failing electronics industry - hence, the ready availability of industrial electronics-related salvage. There's an entire IC foundry sitting unused in one of the factories... all that gear just waiting to be sold off.

This isn't an area I'd recommend visiting... there's not much to do.
Though, it is a great environment for

As a very young lad I lived near Kokomo. Up until I was 6. I don't remember very much in terms of specifics. But I do know that's where my desire to live in the country came from.