Clay Jones GrandLaff and Landgraff ICs

Post by **Brink** » 12 Nov 2009, 04:22

They're 2 different effects from 2 different guys, pick one. They'll sound almost the same.
The Landgraff D.OD. is the 2SC1815/JRC4558, that schematic is drawn by Jones but not designed by him. The Clay Jones OD is the BC546B/OPA2134, it was 'designed' by Jones and the schematic drawn by Soulsonic (The Illuminist).
Me, I'd probably try the CJOD, mostly for bragging rights. Want to make it better? Try metal film resistors.

Post by **Brink** » 12 Nov 2009, 05:03

tjmicsak wrote:I thought that the CJOD was pretty much a "clone" of the LOD

That's correct. It's pretty much the same, but people tend to regard them as 2 distinct effects. CJ changed the 4558 to the OPA and 2SC... to BC transistors. Both ways are correct, depending on which (very similar) pedal you want.
Socketing sounds good. Also, the clipping diodes are slightly different.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » 12 Nov 2009, 13:37

The Clay Jones uses LED's for clipping.. the Landgraff switches between Silicon diodes, LEDs and diodes lifted.

earthtonesaudio · Post by **earthtonesaudio** » 12 Nov 2009, 14:50

I would think the variances between diodes of the same part number would be greater than swapping one IC for a different type.

Jarno · Post by **Jarno** » 27 Nov 2009, 20:09

The diodes are a bigger change, but the opamp swap is very audible as well. The opa2134 is a very nice one, but one might find it too well behaved and tame.

mictester · Post by **mictester** » 30 Nov 2009, 13:12

tjmicsak wrote:The schematic posted on the web on graph paper as "drawn by Clay Jones" shows Q1 and Q2 as 2SC1815 with a JRC4558 OpA, while the illuminist schematic shows them as BC546B with a OPA2134 (Burr Brown).
When I tried to cross ref the trannies at NTE the BC546B are the same as the 2N4401 in the BYOC kit, lising as NTE123AP, but the 2SC1815 are a different transistor cross of NTE85.

Which of these is the real ones to use, and what is the difference? I am working with a BYOC ITS8 and trying to build the Landgraff/Clay Jones from it by subbing in the higher quality caps and carbon resistors, but the variety in the ICs has me asking which are the authentic ones to use.

Why are you wasting your time changing passive components? Carbon resistors do add some noise, but I've yet to find anyone who can hear the difference between different types of capacitor in a real "blind" test. It's ALL just marketing BS, and the sooner people realise this, the sooner they'll stop wasting money on silly "mojo" parts. Changing active components is a different matter - different types of op-amp give differing types of distortion, higher quality op-amps don't distort (themselves) so tend not to add their own colouration to the mix, and changing types of clipping diodes can make radical changes to the sounds available.

FYI - the 2SC1815 is probably the cheapest NPN silicon transistor ever made. It had a huge spread of hfe, and tended to be quite noisy, but it was a pretty good general purpose, low power device. I remember buying a batch of 15 million of them from JRC back in my days at Panasonic, along with a similar number of 2SA1015 (the PNP "complement")! You can replace it with pretty much any low power silicon device - BC108, BC183, 2N4401, 2N5088 or whatever you like - and you'll get just the same results!

Now to dispel yet another "mojo" myth - the JRC 4558 is just the same as (for example) the LM4558 and is even the same as some later 747 parts (dual 741s). They are all made using the same chip die, using the same process, and the same materials!!! The 4558 wasn't chosen for its magical properties, it was chosen because you could buy them (in hundreds of thousands) for $0.012 each! They were also probably the cheapest op-amps ever produced. When it comes to the "wonderful" TS series pedals, the most expensive parts were the mechanical ones - the case, the knobs, the sockets and the battery connector. The rest of the components (including the PCB) would have been expensive if they cost more than $0.35 including populating the boards! The factory price for one of those things would be around $1 at most, and it makes me fall about laughing when I see some clown offer one for sale for $1500, and I howl with laughter when I see someone pay that kind of money for one!

earthtonesaudio · Post by **earthtonesaudio** » 30 Nov 2009, 15:33

Jarno wrote:The 4558 wasn't chosen for its magical properties...

Unless you count latch-up free operation as "magical." That property is rather important.

mictester · Post by **mictester** » 01 Dec 2009, 07:43

earthtonesaudio wrote:
Jarno wrote:The 4558 wasn't chosen for its magical properties...
Unless you count latch-up free operation as "magical." That property is rather important.

Not at all. Almost any op-amp post 1978 doesn't latch up! In fact, you can get the 4558 to latch up - there is a fast-slewing, rail-bashing condition that causes the driver stage to "get stuck" and the output will almost meet, and then stay at, the rail! It's easiest to do on downward swings, by the way

The only truly magical property of the device was its spectacularly low price!

Post by **Brink** » 01 Dec 2009, 07:54

mictester wrote:
earthtonesaudio wrote:
Jarno wrote:The 4558 wasn't chosen for its magical properties...
Unless you count latch-up free operation as "magical." That property is rather important.
Not at all. Almost any op-amp post 1978 doesn't latch up! In fact, you can get the 4558 to latch up - there is a fast-slewing, rail-bashing condition that causes the driver stage to "get stuck" and the output will almost meet, and then stay at, the rail! It's easiest to do on downward swings, by the way

The only truly magical property of the device was its spectacularly low price!

I'm curious, I've never heard of latching before.
Is it possible to unlatch the opamp? What else can you tell me about latching?

Coma · Post by **Coma** » 21 Dec 2009, 13:18

Will there be a difference soundwise between the 2SC1815 and the BC546B in a Tube Screamer/Dynamic Overdrive/CJOD?