Paul Cochrane - Timmy

Mr. G. · Post by **Mr. G.** » 21 Jan 2009, 23:57

Here's the layout that I made. The clipping section is a little different, though. I have it set up to use an 8-pin IC socket to use different diode combinations. I haven't built it, but it checks out in Eagle, which I used to design it in, so hopefully it should work.

https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/P ... h_vero.png

drmathprog · Post by **drmathprog** » 22 Jan 2009, 00:11

Wow, you sure know your way around graphics software; that's beautiful!

paulc · Post by **paulc** » 22 Jan 2009, 02:33

Mr. G. wrote:Here's the layout that I made. The clipping section is a little different, though. I have it set up to use an 8-pin IC socket to use different diode combinations. I haven't built it, but it checks out in Eagle, which I used to design it in, so hopefully it should work.

https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/P ... h_vero.png

You know - I was going to go off on the posting of layouts vs schematics, but it wouldn't matter. You guys win - have at it.

kurtlives · Post by **kurtlives** » 22 Jan 2009, 03:21

Can anyone confirm all the pots are the right value and taper? I thought gain was 500K?

Also can anyone tell me how the clipping switch works, I don't quite understand it.

Mr. G. · Post by **Mr. G.** » 22 Jan 2009, 11:08

paulc wrote:You know - I was going to go off on the posting of layouts vs schematics, but it wouldn't matter. You guys win - have at it.

What difference does it make? I wasn't trying to stir things up or anything, and I apologize if I stepped on your toes. The schematic is already readily available in this thread, and after a little practice, anybody can make a layout from a schematic. I'm an uber noob at all of this stuff myself, so I'm not able to contribute much to the forum. That's why I posted my layout after drmathprog asked if anybody had one. I was just trying to help out, because that's what this forum is all about. My layout is also not quite an exact copy of your Timmy, hence why I called it a Timmy'ish.

Mr. G. · Post by **Mr. G.** » 22 Jan 2009, 11:12

drmathprog wrote:Wow, you sure know your way around graphics software; that's beautiful!

Thanks! I originally made the layout in Eagle, but then made the "pretty" layout with Inkscape. It's a free vector graphics program sort of like adobe illustrator. There's a thread in the software section that contains some layout templates (including the one that I use). Here's the link: https://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=4078

drmathprog · Post by **drmathprog** » 22 Jan 2009, 12:53

Paulc,
I would be happy to buy one if I could figure out how to do it. However, no one seems to carry them, and the few I see on ebay seem pretty highly priced. Is there a secret handshake I need to learn to place credit (and cash) where it is due?

paulc · Post by **paulc** » 22 Jan 2009, 15:36

Mr. G. wrote: What difference does it make? I wasn't trying to stir things up or anything, and I apologize if I stepped on your toes. The schematic is already readily available in this thread, and after a little practice, anybody can make a layout from a schematic.

I don’t have a problem if guys use the schematic to build their own pedal (as long as they don’t sell it). In the spirit of learning I think that’s fine and I’ve done it myself many times. I also understand how guys say that since they know how to build their own pedals that by making one of mine they’re not taking work away from me because they wouldn’t buy one in the first place.

When it comes to posting layouts though I think a line is being crossed. It’s now no longer about sharing circuit info. It’s now about showing guys who DON’T know how to build their own pedals how to build mine. To me it sort of says “Don’t buy one of his if you don’t know how to build it. Not only will I give out the schematic, but I’ll show you how to build it.” I know you didn’t mean it that way, and you were just wanting to contribute to the forum, but I can’t help but feel that it’s promoting guys to not even do business with me. Guys who don’t know how to build pedals are the ones I rely on as customers. Without them theirs nobody left and I’ve got to find another line of work which is hard to do at 41 in this economic environment.

It looks like by this summer I’ll need to find work anyway. Right now things are O.K. because I’ve still got 7 months of back ordered pedals to fill, but my monthly orders are really starting to drop. I don’t know if it’s the economy, or if it’s guys building their own now. Regardless by June the back log will be filled, and unless orders triple from what they’ve been the past 6 months I won’t be able to support my family. In fact I’ve never really had enough orders to support my family. Three or four dozen orders a month is all I’ve ever gotten. Lower middle class income at best. It’s all been about the back log filling in the gap. It’s scary, and it really worries me. Maybe all this stress is making me to sensitive, but I still can’t help but feel that by posting layouts it’s now saying to not even buy from me if you can’t build it yourself. It’s the next step before kits.

Layouts are easy. You don’t need somebody to post those. Do we need everything handed to us? You’ve already got the circuit – learn how to make your own layouts. That’s much more satisfying. Do you just want to build a puzzle, or do you want to be able to sit back when you’re done and say “cool – check out what I just built from scratch”.

As for the question about the gain pot Tim is 500k, and Timmy is 1M. Also when you do make a layout put the resistor setting min gain on the pot. It cuts down on a wire going to the board.

Later, PaulC

briggs · Post by **briggs** » 22 Jan 2009, 15:42

paulc wrote:
Mr. G. wrote: What difference does it make? I wasn't trying to stir things up or anything, and I apologize if I stepped on your toes. The schematic is already readily available in this thread, and after a little practice, anybody can make a layout from a schematic.
I don’t have a problem if guys use the schematic to build their own pedal (as long as they don’t sell it). In the spirit of learning I think that’s fine and I’ve done it myself many times. I also understand how guys say that since they know how to build their own pedals that by making one of mine they’re not taking work away from me because they wouldn’t buy one in the first place.

When it comes to posting layouts though I think a line is being crossed. It’s now no longer about sharing circuit info. It’s now about showing guys who DON’T know how to build their own pedals how to build mine. To me it sort of says “Don’t buy one of his if you don’t know how to build it. Not only will I give out the schematic, but I’ll show you how to build it.” I know you didn’t mean it that way, and you were just wanting to contribute to the forum, but I can’t help but feel that it’s promoting guys to not even do business with me. Guys who don’t know how to build pedals are the ones I rely on as customers. Without them theirs nobody left and I’ve got to find another line of work which is hard to do at 41 in this economic environment.

It looks like by this summer I’ll need to find work anyway. Right now things are O.K. because I’ve still got 7 months of back ordered pedals to fill, but my monthly orders are really starting to drop. I don’t know if it’s the economy, or if it’s guys building their own now. Regardless by June the back log will be filled, and unless orders triple from what they’ve been the past 6 months I won’t be able to support my family. In fact I’ve never really had enough orders to support my family. Three or four dozen orders a month is all I’ve ever gotten. Lower middle class income at best. It’s all been about the back log filling in the gap. It’s scary, and it really worries me. Maybe all this stress is making me to sensitive, but I still can’t help but feel that by posting layouts it’s now saying to not even buy from me if you can’t build it yourself. It’s the next step before kits.

Layouts are easy. You don’t need somebody to post those. Do we need everything handed to us? You’ve already got the circuit – learn how to make your own layouts. That’s much more satisfying. Do you just want to build a puzzle, or do you want to be able to sit back when you’re done and say “cool – check out what I just built from scratch”.

As for the question about the gain pot Tim is 500k, and Timmy is 1M. Also when you do make a layout put the resistor setting min gain on the pot. It cuts down on a wire going to the board.

Later, PaulC

Just a suggestion paul, why not offer kits yourself? Then you'd be selling to the guys who do want to build their own. It's an extra marketplace.

chris_d · Post by **chris_d** » 22 Jan 2009, 16:17

briggs wrote:Just a suggestion paul, why not offer kits yourself? Then you'd be selling to the guys who do want to build their own. It's an extra marketplace.

It seems an unlikely course for a small builder who is low key enough not to have a website up. If he went the kit route he would have to provide support to a lot of noob builders. Probably would need a dedicated forum for that. Think of when BYOC started up and all those customers started coming into DIYStomp looking for answers. Folks did not take too kindly to that. Even now that BYOC has their own forum, people still get cranky at DIYstomp when people roll in with BYOC problems.

It is hard to offer a kit and a layout and then say "that is it, you are on your own". Kits are a whole different game, and if he is already 6-7 months backordered and just scraping by, then i wouldn't expect him to want to get involved in troubleshooting noob's bad solder joints and reversed polarities, or replacing toasted ICs. With just a one man operation and an already lengthy backorder list, that seems like it would just be asking for trouble and stress.

Maybe if he licensed the kit design to GGG or OLC or BYOC or something like that, and let those guys handle the support instead?

I understand his reluctance to go that route anyhow though.

Paul, you are a good dude, and your pedals sound great and are (maybe too) inexpensive. I hope you can figure out a way to make your business work well, whatever it is.

-chris

briggs · Post by **briggs** » 22 Jan 2009, 16:24

I understand his reluctance too, it's only a suggestion really. But it would open up another market for him with a product that he already has developed, is selling and has a buzz about it, it's just another revenue stream to capitalize upon. It's not too hard to set up a forum, recruit some knowledgeable mods and pop in every once in a while to see how it's going.

Mr. G. · Post by **Mr. G.** » 22 Jan 2009, 16:47

sheesh, all this for just trying to help a fellow noob out

kurtlives · Post by **kurtlives** » 22 Jan 2009, 17:29

Mr. G. wrote:Here's the layout that I made. The clipping section is a little different, though. I have it set up to use an 8-pin IC socket to use different diode combinations. I haven't built it, but it checks out in Eagle, which I used to design it in, so hopefully it should work.

https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/P ... h_vero.png

If you remove one of the cuts "in" the IC socket then you would have the diodes connected like an actually Timmy. Then all your missing is the DIP switch.

drmathprog · Post by **drmathprog** » 22 Jan 2009, 17:58

Mr. G. wrote:sheesh, all this for just trying to help a fellow noob out

Sorry.

paulc · Post by **paulc** » 22 Jan 2009, 18:17

Mr. G. wrote:sheesh, all this for just trying to help a fellow noob out

There's nothing wrong with helping people out. I wished more people would do that instead of all the negative stuff that goes on. I just feel that all anybody needs is in the schematic, and I've corrected the values to even help with that. Of course that only applies if I'm trustworthy as a builder...

Posting schematics is about sharing design info. Posting layouts and build tutorials (like I've seen done for other products here) get's into actively promoting cloning instead of just sharing knowledge. Sharing knowledge - great. Sharing how to clone - not so great...

The best way to help is to write up HOW to make layouts. Show what needs to be done, and things to be thought about. Teach a guy how to fish instead of just giving him a fish. I'd rather see that so guys can fish in their own pond. Mine's drying up...

Mr. G. · Post by **Mr. G.** » 22 Jan 2009, 20:10

If you want my layout pulled, feel free to ask the mods to edit/delete my posts. I have no problems with that. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I do respect you, and the last thing that I want to do is piss anybody off.

paulc · Post by **paulc** » 22 Jan 2009, 21:09

Mr. G. wrote:If you want my layout pulled, feel free to ask the mods to edit/delete my posts. I have no problems with that. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I do respect you, and the last thing that I want to do is piss anybody off.

You've not pissed me off - I understand wanting to contribute to this site. I know you didn't mean anything by it other than sharing info.

If you want give me a call at 615-896-8555.

Later, PaulC

kurtlives · Post by **kurtlives** » 22 Jan 2009, 21:31

Mr. G. wrote:Here's the layout that I made. The clipping section is a little different, though. I have it set up to use an 8-pin IC socket to use different diode combinations. I haven't built it, but it checks out in Eagle, which I used to design it in, so hopefully it should work.

https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/P ... h_vero.png

Your layout is good except...
The limiting resistor should be in front of the anode instead of after the cathode.
The clipping section is not original but I already said that. Just remove one cut.
I would add the polarity protection diode, worth it imo. Perfect spot would be right next to R9.
Finally you have an error with R5. Once that is sorted out I will be building this and verifying it fully.

Thanks for the layout...

Mr. G. · Post by **Mr. G.** » 22 Jan 2009, 21:46

kurtlives wrote:Your layout is good except...
The limiting resistor should be in front of the anode instead of after the cathode.
The clipping section is not original but I already said that. Just remove one cut.
I would add the polarity protection diode, worth it imo. Perfect spot would be right next to R9.
Finally you have an error with R5. Once that is sorted out I will be building this and verifying it fully.

Thanks for the layout...

I don't see any of the errors you're talking about. I purposely changed the clipping section (as stated on the layout). Which one is the limiting resistor R3? Also, what's wrong with R5? Maybe I'm just being thick headed, but I can't figure out what errors you're talking about.

kurtlives · Post by **kurtlives** » 22 Jan 2009, 22:24

Limiting resistor is the one connected to the LED. I know that's wrong for sure.

After looking at the layout and schem again I feel stupid. R5 is fine, bah this stupid head cold (gotta have an excuse right?

)

Anyways thanks for the layout.

Paul Cochrane - Timmy [traced]