Paul Cochrane - Timmy [traced]
- paulc
- Resistor Ronker
Information
I don't know what to make of this thread. There seems to be some people taking shots at me for either over-hyping my pedals, or basing them off of others work.
I made the Tim pedal back in 1997, and I'm kind of bummed that some have hinted that I didn't. They have no grounds for those comments. I don'tknow that sansamp circuit Modman talked about either. I made my pedal back in 1997 for my rig, and I sold some to local guys at that time when they heard mine. It was not based off of a tube reamer or any other circuit like that. It is not a ts clone. There's more to a TS than an opamp and diodes...
Here's the deal - the pedal started life as a simple opamp booster to kick my marshall. I added a simple 1st order filter to it to take off the highs to warm it up. Every now and then I'd hit the pedal hard, and it would hit the rails. I didn't like the sound of that so i put in some diode clamps because they sounded better to me than the sound of hitting the rails. Then i felt that there was to much low end in the circuit when it was clipping, but i wanted to keep the low end for when it was clean. I wanted a pre clipping bass control to be able to control that, but i didn't want it to change the gain, so I made a simple cap mixer, and picked the values i like best.
I've never hyped it/gooped it/charged a stupid amount for it. I'm sorry some of you seem to be offended by this design, but I've never played that game that some of you seem to be putting me into. I'm a DIY guy like yourselves, but for some reason mine got out there because of people talking about them. I've never tried to rip people off, and I've never shot the price up because of what they go for used. I don't see what I could have done that warrents some of the comments made here. I make a simple circuit, and sell it at a cheap price, so what gives??
As to the circuit questions... This is something that helps pay the bills, and I'd rather not see it out there, but since some feel it's cool to do it anyway I'll fill in the blanks so I at least don't get busted on for the tracing errors. But here's the thing - while most of you guys just want to see these circuits there are builders that will take this stuff and call it their own. You're making their job easy by posting schematics.
Anyway - The SM is 100p. Bass and treble are 50k. The timmy pedals now use 6 diodes, but not in the way shown here. Cost was never a factor, and that was a ridiculus comment made about that. If that was the case I'd have bumped the price up to what they go for used instead of keeping them at $100. It's 4 diodes with two going in each direction. They are joined in the middle so think of it as two pairs in series instead of two rows of two. It does make a difference. the dips parallel single diodes on each side. There is a low gain preset resistor. It's 3k3, and it's wired from the wiper to the outside leg of the gain pot. The gain pot is wired in from both outside legs - the wiper is not connected in the normal way.
The Tim pedal has a boost mode that started life as a strange active mid boost. It used a 82mh coil in it. The drive control brought it up, and the tone control swung it around some. MAde it like that for a couple of years then i dropped the coil because it had more uses without it. Some early ones had a toggle switch to remove the coil.
The bias resistors are not right. It's 8k2/10k. Those were set to give max headroom out of the output amp. The gain of the output amp is only 6db, but this was set so as not to clip from being driven to hard from the clipper section. It does not use the second side of the opamp as an active tone control - it's a flat responce booster.
Modman said "But doesn't it look like his first question to the board is really about the opamp ovedrive circuit, or am I mistaken. " If you read what I was asking you'd see that what i was looking for was a DC isolator circuit. I was making something that used a real split power supply (not 9/4.5/ground, but +4.5/-4.5/ground). It worked fine with a battery, but I also wanted to be able to use it with a common pedal pwr source. It had nothing to do with an over drive - it was about pwr supply rails. So yes - you were mistaken. Good find though.
MarkM wrote "claiming that he did not know of the TS is like saying one has no knowledge of the wheel" I have no idea where you heard/read this. I've never said I didn't know the TS circuit.
If I had to say this pedal is like something I'd say it's 1/4 micro amp, 1/4 rat, 1/4 screamer, 1/4 something that was new to me 10 years ago. Stir it up, and then charge a fair price... so why the negative comments?
Anyway - that's about all.
PaulC
Heritage amps/Tim & timmy pedals
I made the Tim pedal back in 1997, and I'm kind of bummed that some have hinted that I didn't. They have no grounds for those comments. I don'tknow that sansamp circuit Modman talked about either. I made my pedal back in 1997 for my rig, and I sold some to local guys at that time when they heard mine. It was not based off of a tube reamer or any other circuit like that. It is not a ts clone. There's more to a TS than an opamp and diodes...
Here's the deal - the pedal started life as a simple opamp booster to kick my marshall. I added a simple 1st order filter to it to take off the highs to warm it up. Every now and then I'd hit the pedal hard, and it would hit the rails. I didn't like the sound of that so i put in some diode clamps because they sounded better to me than the sound of hitting the rails. Then i felt that there was to much low end in the circuit when it was clipping, but i wanted to keep the low end for when it was clean. I wanted a pre clipping bass control to be able to control that, but i didn't want it to change the gain, so I made a simple cap mixer, and picked the values i like best.
I've never hyped it/gooped it/charged a stupid amount for it. I'm sorry some of you seem to be offended by this design, but I've never played that game that some of you seem to be putting me into. I'm a DIY guy like yourselves, but for some reason mine got out there because of people talking about them. I've never tried to rip people off, and I've never shot the price up because of what they go for used. I don't see what I could have done that warrents some of the comments made here. I make a simple circuit, and sell it at a cheap price, so what gives??
As to the circuit questions... This is something that helps pay the bills, and I'd rather not see it out there, but since some feel it's cool to do it anyway I'll fill in the blanks so I at least don't get busted on for the tracing errors. But here's the thing - while most of you guys just want to see these circuits there are builders that will take this stuff and call it their own. You're making their job easy by posting schematics.
Anyway - The SM is 100p. Bass and treble are 50k. The timmy pedals now use 6 diodes, but not in the way shown here. Cost was never a factor, and that was a ridiculus comment made about that. If that was the case I'd have bumped the price up to what they go for used instead of keeping them at $100. It's 4 diodes with two going in each direction. They are joined in the middle so think of it as two pairs in series instead of two rows of two. It does make a difference. the dips parallel single diodes on each side. There is a low gain preset resistor. It's 3k3, and it's wired from the wiper to the outside leg of the gain pot. The gain pot is wired in from both outside legs - the wiper is not connected in the normal way.
The Tim pedal has a boost mode that started life as a strange active mid boost. It used a 82mh coil in it. The drive control brought it up, and the tone control swung it around some. MAde it like that for a couple of years then i dropped the coil because it had more uses without it. Some early ones had a toggle switch to remove the coil.
The bias resistors are not right. It's 8k2/10k. Those were set to give max headroom out of the output amp. The gain of the output amp is only 6db, but this was set so as not to clip from being driven to hard from the clipper section. It does not use the second side of the opamp as an active tone control - it's a flat responce booster.
Modman said "But doesn't it look like his first question to the board is really about the opamp ovedrive circuit, or am I mistaken. " If you read what I was asking you'd see that what i was looking for was a DC isolator circuit. I was making something that used a real split power supply (not 9/4.5/ground, but +4.5/-4.5/ground). It worked fine with a battery, but I also wanted to be able to use it with a common pedal pwr source. It had nothing to do with an over drive - it was about pwr supply rails. So yes - you were mistaken. Good find though.
MarkM wrote "claiming that he did not know of the TS is like saying one has no knowledge of the wheel" I have no idea where you heard/read this. I've never said I didn't know the TS circuit.
If I had to say this pedal is like something I'd say it's 1/4 micro amp, 1/4 rat, 1/4 screamer, 1/4 something that was new to me 10 years ago. Stir it up, and then charge a fair price... so why the negative comments?
Anyway - that's about all.
PaulC
Heritage amps/Tim & timmy pedals
Last edited by paulc on 09 Nov 2007, 00:23, edited 6 times in total.
- analogguru
- Old Solderhand
Information
Hi Paul,
Thanks for joining this forum and clearing some mysteries. I want to start with this:
Sadly there is at the moment a development to charge moe than $300,-- for any mojo-hype-pedal with nothing (new) inside in reality. So the target is not the $100,-- Boutique-builder, it´s the overprized rip-off-guy and/or the speculant.
As you can see here:
https://cgi.ebay.com/Tim-Overdrive-Boos ... dZViewItem
and here:
https://cgi.ebay.com/Tim-Overdrive-Peda ... dZViewItem
is the second-hand-price for a TIM not $100,--, it has been raised to about $280,--. So somebody is making more profit on this unit than you yourself.... and such guys are causing the mismood concerning your pedal and that people are thinking and discussing: WTF is inside that the price of such a pedal should be $280,-- ? and ist it worth that ?
One reason for this is the demand of the market for this unit. One possibility to overcome this would be to increase production that the offer is enough sao that nobody will buy it second hand. But this is not been done for some reasons. I understand that you say, only for the reason that the people want, I will not have restless nights... That´s your right. But its also the right of the poeple to start a discussion as mentioned above.
That you didn´t goop/overhype it speaks for you. Also that you answer some historical and technical questions. Concerning the technical side i will answer you a bit later.
analogguru
Thanks for joining this forum and clearing some mysteries. I want to start with this:
My personal opinion is that $100,-- for a Timmy and $120,-- for a Tim would be a fair price. The same as Barber charges for his DirectDrive. I think it is possible to work with this price without going bankrupt....Cost was never a factor. If that was the case I'd have bumped the price up to what they go for used instead of keeping them at $100.
...
Stir it up, and then charge a fair price... so why the negative comments?
Sadly there is at the moment a development to charge moe than $300,-- for any mojo-hype-pedal with nothing (new) inside in reality. So the target is not the $100,-- Boutique-builder, it´s the overprized rip-off-guy and/or the speculant.
As you can see here:
https://cgi.ebay.com/Tim-Overdrive-Boos ... dZViewItem
and here:
https://cgi.ebay.com/Tim-Overdrive-Peda ... dZViewItem
is the second-hand-price for a TIM not $100,--, it has been raised to about $280,--. So somebody is making more profit on this unit than you yourself.... and such guys are causing the mismood concerning your pedal and that people are thinking and discussing: WTF is inside that the price of such a pedal should be $280,-- ? and ist it worth that ?
One reason for this is the demand of the market for this unit. One possibility to overcome this would be to increase production that the offer is enough sao that nobody will buy it second hand. But this is not been done for some reasons. I understand that you say, only for the reason that the people want, I will not have restless nights... That´s your right. But its also the right of the poeple to start a discussion as mentioned above.
That you didn´t goop/overhype it speaks for you. Also that you answer some historical and technical questions. Concerning the technical side i will answer you a bit later.
analogguru
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.
- paulc
- Resistor Ronker
Information
Hi analogguru,
I know what you mean about the prices on ebay, but that's not my doing and I don't understand why that should translate into some of the comments made here. The used prices shouldn't be a reason why some of the people here don't believe me when I said the pedal is a 10 year old design, nor should it be a reason why I'm lumped into the evil boutique builder folder. the main reason for the price is the wait. I've got a day job, and I never wanted to have to quit that just to make 2 pedals. I still want to do this on a hobby scale. I shouldn't be faulted because the demand is asking for more than I have the time to make. All I ever wanted was to sell a couple dozen a month for some extra income to keep the kids out of daycare. That's why there's no web sites and such. i want to stay on a small word of mouth only scale. I'm not looking to be a big pedal builder at this moment.
The timmy is $100, and the Tim is $150. Actually the prices do need to come up a bit because parts have gone up a good bit (rohs). When I set the price I made it 3x my cost. that's standard wholesale pricing. Since i sold them direct i didn't see a reason to have a retail mark-up. As a diy guy 3x may seem like a killing, but to be able to make these things and pay all the bills (biz taxes and such) you really can't do it for less and stay in biz for long. If you make $20 per hr at your day job that job is having to bring in about $40 or more just to break even (taxes/insurance/work space overhead etc...) If I've got to make 50 I need to tie up $3K before I see any return. If i want things to grow I need to make a profit so i have money after I pay myself and the cost of doing biz. If I need to make 100 pedals the next month I need to have $6K tied up. I'm not getting rich by any means with the mark-up I charge.
I can't make these for less, but if I had dealers I would have to mark things up to a retail price. I wouldn't be able to sell them to dealers for less than $100 & $150. They'd have to mark them up to get their 35-50% mark up they need.
The point is I'm making a simple design that 10 years ago was a little different than what was in the stores. there may be some things like it now, but that shouldn't mean my pedal is any less because of that. I'd just like you guys to know that I'm not ripping anybody off, or stealing diy circuits here. I'm just a diy guy from back in the ampage days (before aron's diy sites even started) who made a pedal that some people dig. there's no reason for the negative remarks that i've seen here.
Later, PaulC
Heritage amps/Tim & timmy pedals
I know what you mean about the prices on ebay, but that's not my doing and I don't understand why that should translate into some of the comments made here. The used prices shouldn't be a reason why some of the people here don't believe me when I said the pedal is a 10 year old design, nor should it be a reason why I'm lumped into the evil boutique builder folder. the main reason for the price is the wait. I've got a day job, and I never wanted to have to quit that just to make 2 pedals. I still want to do this on a hobby scale. I shouldn't be faulted because the demand is asking for more than I have the time to make. All I ever wanted was to sell a couple dozen a month for some extra income to keep the kids out of daycare. That's why there's no web sites and such. i want to stay on a small word of mouth only scale. I'm not looking to be a big pedal builder at this moment.
The timmy is $100, and the Tim is $150. Actually the prices do need to come up a bit because parts have gone up a good bit (rohs). When I set the price I made it 3x my cost. that's standard wholesale pricing. Since i sold them direct i didn't see a reason to have a retail mark-up. As a diy guy 3x may seem like a killing, but to be able to make these things and pay all the bills (biz taxes and such) you really can't do it for less and stay in biz for long. If you make $20 per hr at your day job that job is having to bring in about $40 or more just to break even (taxes/insurance/work space overhead etc...) If I've got to make 50 I need to tie up $3K before I see any return. If i want things to grow I need to make a profit so i have money after I pay myself and the cost of doing biz. If I need to make 100 pedals the next month I need to have $6K tied up. I'm not getting rich by any means with the mark-up I charge.
I can't make these for less, but if I had dealers I would have to mark things up to a retail price. I wouldn't be able to sell them to dealers for less than $100 & $150. They'd have to mark them up to get their 35-50% mark up they need.
The point is I'm making a simple design that 10 years ago was a little different than what was in the stores. there may be some things like it now, but that shouldn't mean my pedal is any less because of that. I'd just like you guys to know that I'm not ripping anybody off, or stealing diy circuits here. I'm just a diy guy from back in the ampage days (before aron's diy sites even started) who made a pedal that some people dig. there's no reason for the negative remarks that i've seen here.
Later, PaulC
Heritage amps/Tim & timmy pedals
Paul's such a nice guy, he's actually subsidizing his customers by under-charging! Who are we to second guess his pricing (but I'd be raising prices if the market "spoke" that loudly about my products hint hint).
And, yes; according to his history posted here, it is apparent that his addition of diodes in the feedback loop was a very conscious decision dictated by the performance of the booster, as opposed to a reflexive copying of a TS circuit. And obviously his pre-bass and post-treble aren't TS related.
I won't ask any more technical details here, as I have no desire to make my own version. Looks like a great pedal, Paul!
I'm sure lots of us could come up with our own booster/overdrive designs, and a lot of them might even end up becoming things all our guitar-playing buddies bugged us to make for them. Not everyone wants to jump in and make guitar pedals for a living, but sometimes a good idea just begs to be shared. I think it's a wonderful privilege to do something one loves and be able to feed one's family doing it. More power to Paul and best wishes to his family and to the crew at Heritage Amps. And when the prices for Tim and Timmys go up to "retail" levels, you won't see me bitching about it. Maybe I should order one before that happens, though!!!
And, yes; according to his history posted here, it is apparent that his addition of diodes in the feedback loop was a very conscious decision dictated by the performance of the booster, as opposed to a reflexive copying of a TS circuit. And obviously his pre-bass and post-treble aren't TS related.
I won't ask any more technical details here, as I have no desire to make my own version. Looks like a great pedal, Paul!
I'm sure lots of us could come up with our own booster/overdrive designs, and a lot of them might even end up becoming things all our guitar-playing buddies bugged us to make for them. Not everyone wants to jump in and make guitar pedals for a living, but sometimes a good idea just begs to be shared. I think it's a wonderful privilege to do something one loves and be able to feed one's family doing it. More power to Paul and best wishes to his family and to the crew at Heritage Amps. And when the prices for Tim and Timmys go up to "retail" levels, you won't see me bitching about it. Maybe I should order one before that happens, though!!!
- briggs
- Tube Twister
Information
Paul - I think you are one of the most honest builders going. You could probably charge a little more for your time than you do (and you probably should!). Top work!
$100 translates into £50 - I can barely get a decent boss for that never mind hand crafted goodness! Again - top work, keep it up!
$100 translates into £50 - I can barely get a decent boss for that never mind hand crafted goodness! Again - top work, keep it up!
- Greg
- Old Solderhand
Another thing about the Tim and Timmy is that the finish and quality of the build is as good or better than most the $300+ pedals.
They are one of the biggest bargains in the Booteek world !
They are one of the biggest bargains in the Booteek world !
I'm not in the pedal business, but I graduated from business school. Maybe that's why I'm not in the business.
I think coming up with a circuit design is the easy part. Business is hard. I see a lot of 'haters' on this forum who are griping at builders (see the Skreddy thread). Don't be a hater. There are so many factors in business. I figured it out, for an average pedal, if you sell it for $100, you're probably making $10 an hour. You can make that flipping burgers.
People rag on Landgraff for selling a common circuit for $400. Well, if people are willing to pay that much, why not? Jacking up the price reduces demand. So you are not killing yourself and generating a 2-year waiting list. And you actually make a profit.
I think coming up with a circuit design is the easy part. Business is hard. I see a lot of 'haters' on this forum who are griping at builders (see the Skreddy thread). Don't be a hater. There are so many factors in business. I figured it out, for an average pedal, if you sell it for $100, you're probably making $10 an hour. You can make that flipping burgers.
People rag on Landgraff for selling a common circuit for $400. Well, if people are willing to pay that much, why not? Jacking up the price reduces demand. So you are not killing yourself and generating a 2-year waiting list. And you actually make a profit.
- modman
- a d m i n
Information
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Thanks for sharing that Paul.
This site is by no means against people selling pedals. What give ground to the opinion of a third party if somebody want to pay you for what you do. I can only imagine how hard it is to run a stompbox business, and your post explains alot in that respect.
I was going to draw up a list of online pedalsellers that quit, had quite a list on my other computer. So much to do...
But have a look here: some days to go and already at $150
http://cgi.benl.ebay.be/Tim-overdrive-p ... dZViewItem
$150 is indeed cheap for a handmade box. Compared to some other prices I've seen lately...
This site is by no means against people selling pedals. What give ground to the opinion of a third party if somebody want to pay you for what you do. I can only imagine how hard it is to run a stompbox business, and your post explains alot in that respect.
I was going to draw up a list of online pedalsellers that quit, had quite a list on my other computer. So much to do...
But have a look here: some days to go and already at $150
http://cgi.benl.ebay.be/Tim-overdrive-p ... dZViewItem
$150 is indeed cheap for a handmade box. Compared to some other prices I've seen lately...
Please, support freestompboxes.org on Patreon for just 1 pcb per year! Or donate directly through PayPal
- analogguru
- Old Solderhand
Information
When you look at the bidding list:
http://offer.benl.ebay.be/ws/eBayISAPI. ... 0170745006
you will see that it started with $ 1,--- is already at $ 142,50 ... and has three days to go....
Lets talk about the price on 12-nov-07 03:18:20 CET
analogguru
yes and please sendthe same amount of money to me what the price will be above the estimated $ 150,--
http://offer.benl.ebay.be/ws/eBayISAPI. ... 0170745006
you will see that it started with $ 1,--- is already at $ 142,50 ... and has three days to go....
Lets talk about the price on 12-nov-07 03:18:20 CET
analogguru
yes and please sendthe same amount of money to me what the price will be above the estimated $ 150,--
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.
- DougH
- Transistor Tuner
There's a certain amt of naivete' on this forum and others about builders and what they are up to. The silly stereotype notion of builders driving Porsche 911's because they sold a $300 tubescreamer clone with a fancy paint job comes to mind. Sit down and do the math and you will find this is not an easy business to make a decent living at.Ed G. wrote:I see a lot of 'haters' on this forum who are griping at builders (see the Skreddy thread). Don't be a hater. There are so many factors in business. I figured it out, for an average pedal, if you sell it for $100, you're probably making $10 an hour. You can make that flipping burgers.
People rag on Landgraff for selling a common circuit for $400. Well, if people are willing to pay that much, why not? Jacking up the price reduces demand. So you are not killing yourself and generating a 2-year waiting list. And you actually make a profit.
And I think that judging a builder or his motives based on the aftermarket for his products is pretty stupid. I don't understand the snarky attitude of some forumites about this. These guys have no control over their aftermarket. There's a lot of reasons for silly Ebay prices- perceived investment value, hype surely, the endless fascination and belief people have that if they just spend XXX dollars, they will reach tonal nirvana, etc. People on Ebay will pay hundreds of dollars for an abnormally long french fry, why is it so hard to believe they will pay 5x the original price for a pedal that is no longer made, or is on a 2-year waiting list? And why do any of us really give a sh*t about how other people spend their money anyway?
Sure, there are extremes to everything. And builders who actively hype their products based on technical inaccuracy generally get ripped a new one, here and at diystompboxes as well. And the TGP-style groundless hype about certain products by clueless consumers gets debunked as well. Bad behavior, planting shills in forums, etc- it all gets called out. That's as it should be too, one of the good things about these forums is keeping people's perceptions 'honest'.
But don't lump all builders into the same pot- just as you don't want this forum stereotyped as a "warez" style site that is only interested in cloning other people's ideas and ripping them off (which it has been in some circles). I've seen a lot of growth in this forum in the last few months and there are some really cool things happening. Check out the DIY section, for example. Open dialogs with builders is another. Believe me, Marc and Paul are each one of us. They have been hanging out in these forums as DIY-ers at least as long as I have. Anyway, good things are happening here. Let's keep the positive vibe going and not get bogged down in negativity.
- briggs
- Tube Twister
Information
There's quite a few posts and topics popping up about this. I agree that the attitude has been bad in the past but I think it is now starting to change, for the better. I think that with a slow but steady growth this forum could become one of the best on the net, bad attitude now will only stunt it's growth in the long term.
- Angle Loss
- Breadboard Brother
I really enjoyed this post above. All the circuit secrecy is kind of a bummer when going on to other forums. I am a hobbyist builder who enjoys learning about what makes a circuit tick. The best way for me is to see my favorite pedals discussed. The Tim/Timmy is one of my favorites, and has been for about 4-5 years now. I have 2 Timmys and 1 Tim. I was absolutely shocked at how good it sounded when I got my first Tim. Most of the time I am pretty turned off by the silly and stupid things that boutique builders say and do, but I have seen PaulC around TGP for a long time, and he has been quite open and honest about everything in his pedals and business. I'm not sure why the age of the Tim is being questioned, because there are well known examples going back to the late 90's. Like I said, it is very unusual for me to step out and talk with so much respect for a builder.briggs wrote:There's quite a few posts and topics popping up about this. I agree that the attitude has been bad in the past but I think it is now starting to change, for the better. I think that with a slow but steady growth this forum could become one of the best on the net, bad attitude now will only stunt it's growth in the long term.
Aside from a few posts from those who haven't had a Tim and are trying to figure it out (I don't think ill intent was present--or at least to the extent you took it, Paul), the thread has been a look into what makes the Tim such a spectacular pedal. Anyone could buy one and reverse engineer it, and I don't think they would waste the time here if they wanted to steal a circuit to sell. I'm not electronically trained (well, not professionally anyways) and it helps me design my own circuits by understanding how my favorite pedals work. I admire a good design, whether simple or complex, whether original or modification of a classic.
I particularly liked having Paul come in and explain why he designed it the way he did, and even correct some errors. Furthermore, I was glad that everyone here did evaporate or apologetically slink away from the discussion once he showed up. I hope that Paul and Nicholas (catalinbread) and Bjorn (BJF?) will continue to hang out here with all the others that are so far ahead of me. I have learned a great deal so far in this boutique section of this site, and plan to learn much more on my quest to make my own pixie dust sprinkled overdrives.
btw, my dream would be a Tim with a mosfet boost attached to the front end for feel. I have been stacking a seperate mosfet boost with a Timmy and it is delicious!
- Goop_buster
- Solder Soldier
Hi Paulpaulc wrote:I don't know what to make of this thread. There seems to be some people taking shots at me for either over-hyping my pedals, or basing them off of others work.
I made the Tim pedal back in 1997, and I'm kind of bummed that some have hinted that I didn't. They have no grounds for those comments. I don'tknow that sansamp circuit Modman talked about either. I made my pedal back in 1997 for my rig, and I sold some to local guys at that time when they heard mine. It was not based off of a tube reamer or any other circuit like that. It is not a ts clone. There's more to a TS than an opamp and diodes...
Here's the deal - the pedal started life as a simple opamp booster to kick my marshall. I added a simple 1st order filter to it to take off the highs to warm it up. Every now and then I'd hit the pedal hard, and it would hit the rails. I didn't like the sound of that so i put in some diode clamps because they sounded better to me than the sound of hitting the rails. Then i felt that there was to much low end in the circuit when it was clipping, but i wanted to keep the low end for when it was clean. I wanted a pre clipping bass control to be able to control that, but i didn't want it to change the gain, so I made a simple cap mixer, and picked the values i like best.
I've never hyped it/gooped it/charged a stupid amount for it. I'm sorry some of you seem to be offended by this design, but I've never played that game that some of you seem to be putting me into. I'm a DIY guy like yourselves, but for some reason mine got out there because of people talking about them. I've never tried to rip people off, and I've never shot the price up because of what they go for used. I don't see what I could have done that warrents some of the comments made here. I make a simple circuit, and sell it at a cheap price, so what gives??
As to the circuit questions... This is something that helps pay the bills, and I'd rather not see it out there, but since some feel it's cool to do it anyway I'll fill in the blanks so I at least don't get busted on for the tracing errors. But here's the thing - while most of you guys just want to see these circuits there are builders that will take this stuff and call it their own. You're making their job easy by posting schematics.
Anyway - The SM is 100p. Bass and treble are 50k. The timmy pedals now use 6 diodes, but not in the way shown here. Cost was never a factor, and that was a ridiculus comment made about that. If that was the case I'd have bumped the price up to what they go for used instead of keeping them at $100. It's 4 diodes with two going in each direction. They are joined in the middle so think of it as two pairs in series instead of two rows of two. It does make a difference. the dips parallel single diodes on each side. There is a low gain preset resistor. It's 3k3, and it's wired from the wiper to the outside leg of the gain pot. The gain pot is wired in from both outside legs - the wiper is not connected in the normal way.
The Tim pedal has a boost mode that started life as a strange active mid boost. It used a 82mh coil in it. The drive control brought it up, and the tone control swung it around some. MAde it like that for a couple of years then i dropped the coil because it had more uses without it. Some early ones had a toggle switch to remove the coil.
The bias resistors are not right. It's 8k2/10k. Those were set to give max headroom out of the output amp. The gain of the output amp is only 6db, but this was set so as not to clip from being driven to hard from the clipper section. It does not use the second side of the opamp as an active tone control - it's a flat responce booster.
Modman said "But doesn't it look like his first question to the board is really about the opamp ovedrive circuit, or am I mistaken. " If you read what I was asking you'd see that what i was looking for was a DC isolator circuit. I was making something that used a real split power supply (not 9/4.5/ground, but +4.5/-4.5/ground). It worked fine with a battery, but I also wanted to be able to use it with a common pedal pwr source. It had nothing to do with an over drive - it was about pwr supply rails. So yes - you were mistaken. Good find though.
MarkM wrote "claiming that he did not know of the TS is like saying one has no knowledge of the wheel" I have no idea where you heard/read this. I've never said I didn't know the TS circuit.
If I had to say this pedal is like something I'd say it's 1/4 micro amp, 1/4 rat, 1/4 screamer, 1/4 something that was new to me 10 years ago. Stir it up, and then charge a fair price... so why the negative comments?
Anyway - that's about all.
PaulC
Heritage amps/Tim & timmy pedals
Thanks for an interesting post. Since I was responsible for the first attempt at drawing a schematic I hope that you recognize that the purpose was just out of interest and not to inflict damage in any way. I have not bashed your design or yourself but rather talk positive about it and you as a clever effect designer in all my posts.
The errors (above) are there because it was never a full or proper reverse engineering , just
a schematic drawn from looking quickly at pictures available on internet. So there was some advanced guessing involved.
Most people into electronics and certainly all effect builders could do the same if they really wanted to.
There was enough to see what made it tick for the interested ones but not enough for the novices to make their own samples
About paying the bills etc...
I cannot think of a single player that I know of that would buy a copy if they want a TIM or Timmy. They would all want or buy the original.
If my bad schematic will help the manufacturer "Eviltone" and others to decide copy and sell the design as their own and cause harm is another thing. It is possible but not very likely in my opinion. If they really wanted to do it they would have done this already long ago.
In most cases I think that the fear about schematics on the internet is out of proportion. I think those causes much less harm for overall sales than most boutique builders think. The players always want the original on their pedal board not a copy.
Best regards
- paulc
- Resistor Ronker
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Hi Goop Buster,
i don't really have a problem with your posting what you did. I wished you didn't, but i understand why people do it. The part that got under my skin where the comments by others. The one Venessa said about my not making the pedal back in '97 was the worst. That was just flat out calling me a liar for no reason. I looked at the tube reamer thing, and it has a copyright of 2006 on it. It's easier to find talk of my pedals years before that then it must have been for the guy who dug up my first post on diystompboxes asking about dc isolators (and making it sound like I was asking a noob question on how to make a clipper)...
The diode one was also messed up. The drawings were wrong, and the idea I made a change to save money was way out there. The 4 diode drawing on the right was the 1st way. I changed it to the 6 diode design I use now over a year ago. It's like the left side except I have a jumper connecting the junctions between d1 & d2 with d3 & d4. I increased the parts...
But there are people that will take things from your drawing and use them. That's not hard to believe - that's what the guys here were saying I did! I know of a couple of builders that have done it. One guy told me to my face he'd never seen my pedals when I've got him saying on BYOC that he designed his pedal after taking one of mine apart.
I do believe that if you're not willing to post all of your own designs you shouldn't do that with others. Indyguitarist pulled his posts telling guys to post my schematics after i got here. I feel that he should post all of his since he was asking guys to post mine. He was using the info from here and going all over the gear page taking shots at mine calling it a tube screamer. You guys all know that one section does not make a design. what you do before and after it has more of an effect on how the pedal is going to sound. Why are his not posted?
I've made it a point to NOT take ideas from these sites that I didn't already have. It just bummed me out that some here thought i did. That got to me way more than your schematic did.
Later, PaulC
Heritage amps/Tim & timmy pedals
i don't really have a problem with your posting what you did. I wished you didn't, but i understand why people do it. The part that got under my skin where the comments by others. The one Venessa said about my not making the pedal back in '97 was the worst. That was just flat out calling me a liar for no reason. I looked at the tube reamer thing, and it has a copyright of 2006 on it. It's easier to find talk of my pedals years before that then it must have been for the guy who dug up my first post on diystompboxes asking about dc isolators (and making it sound like I was asking a noob question on how to make a clipper)...
The diode one was also messed up. The drawings were wrong, and the idea I made a change to save money was way out there. The 4 diode drawing on the right was the 1st way. I changed it to the 6 diode design I use now over a year ago. It's like the left side except I have a jumper connecting the junctions between d1 & d2 with d3 & d4. I increased the parts...
But there are people that will take things from your drawing and use them. That's not hard to believe - that's what the guys here were saying I did! I know of a couple of builders that have done it. One guy told me to my face he'd never seen my pedals when I've got him saying on BYOC that he designed his pedal after taking one of mine apart.
I do believe that if you're not willing to post all of your own designs you shouldn't do that with others. Indyguitarist pulled his posts telling guys to post my schematics after i got here. I feel that he should post all of his since he was asking guys to post mine. He was using the info from here and going all over the gear page taking shots at mine calling it a tube screamer. You guys all know that one section does not make a design. what you do before and after it has more of an effect on how the pedal is going to sound. Why are his not posted?
I've made it a point to NOT take ideas from these sites that I didn't already have. It just bummed me out that some here thought i did. That got to me way more than your schematic did.
Later, PaulC
Heritage amps/Tim & timmy pedals
- modman
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modman wrote: But have a look here: some days to go and already at $150
http://cgi.benl.ebay.be/Tim-overdrive-p ... dZViewItem
$150 is indeed cheap for a handmade box. Compared to some other prices I've seen lately...
And the new reference ebay price is now:
US $330,01
EUR 225,03 EUR
Ebay is terrible in this respect. Once a price attained at ebay, the future ebay biddings wil be influenced by this. That's the retail Klon price.
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I don't get what you are saying. Seems as if you are assuming the motivations and character of another person. I've always said assumptions of another man's motivations is more a reflection of their own character than anything.analogguru wrote:
One reason for this is the demand of the market for this unit. One possibility to overcome this would be to increase production that the offer is enough sao that nobody will buy it second hand. But this is not been done for some reasons.
$10/hr lmao. SOME months I don't even pay myself.Ed G. wrote:I'm not in the pedal business, but I graduated from business school. Maybe that's why I'm not in the business.
I think coming up with a circuit design is the easy part. Business is hard. I see a lot of 'haters' on this forum who are griping at builders (see the Skreddy thread). Don't be a hater. There are so many factors in business. I figured it out, for an average pedal, if you sell it for $100, you're probably making $10 an hour. You can make that flipping burgers.
People rag on Landgraff for selling a common circuit for $400. Well, if people are willing to pay that much, why not? Jacking up the price reduces demand. So you are not killing yourself and generating a 2-year waiting list. And you actually make a profit.
- paulc
- Resistor Ronker
Information
So what?? Did I do that?? No!! I still charge the same $150 that I have for the past 10 years. I've not played up the hype and ridden ebay like a lot of guys do. I've kept the price based on what they cost me to make instead of playing that game. What is your point??modman wrote:modman wrote: But have a look here: some days to go and already at $150
$150 is indeed cheap for a handmade box. Compared to some other prices I've seen lately...
And the new reference ebay price is now:
US $330,01
EUR 225,03 EUR
Ebay is terrible in this respect. Once a price attained at ebay, the future ebay biddings wil be influenced by this. That's the retail Klon price.
- paulc
- Resistor Ronker
Information
Nick right?? You're right - they are assuming big time here. The reason I didn't want to increase production is because I didn't want to quit my day job, or take more time away from my family. It has nothing to do with trying to influence the market. If I was doing that I would've been adjusting the prices i sell them for to take advantage of that.Seishin wrote:I don't get what you are saying. Seems as if you are assuming the motivations and character of another person. I've always said assumptions of another man's motivations is more a reflection of their own character than anything.analogguru wrote:
One reason for this is the demand of the market for this unit. One possibility to overcome this would be to increase production that the offer is enough sao that nobody will buy it second hand. But this is not been done for some reasons.
Later, PaulC
Heritage ampsTim & timmy pedals
- briggs
- Tube Twister