Zvex - Jonny Octave

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Zvex - Jonny Octave

Postby Igloo » 16 Jul 2007, 05:38

Any info?
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Postby theblackman » 16 Jul 2007, 05:53

probably a green ringer by the sounds of it. but i heard someone on diystomp say it was an octavia, but i think he was joking.
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Postby theblackman » 16 Jul 2007, 06:02

author=zachary vex date=1122196586
theres a super hard-on feeding the octave engine from a (doublesupersecretclassic pedal), feeding another super hard-on for output from the first octave.

the output of the first (doublesupersecretclassic pedal) engine feeds another SHO circuit which feeds another (doublesupersecretclassic) engine and another SHO to drive the output of the second octave.

so there's four super hard-ons and two (doublesupersecretclassic pedal) octave engines.

so yeah, there's two transformers and 8 germanium diodes and 4 super hard-ons, so it's a pretty good deal, price-wise.   :wink:

plus, the gain structure is totally circuit-bendable.  i mean, you can adjust (on the inside) the gain of all of the SHO circuits so you can control the exact level at which you drive each (doublesupersecretclassic pedal) octave engine as well as each engine's output boost.

and just exactly which pedal is the (doublesupersecretclassic pedal) octave engine from?

only the best, freakiest octave-up pedal ever.  pre-1970.  

i'll take a guess and say Ton will know which one i'm talkin' 'bout. :wink: but dude is way into the learning curve.
Last edited by theblackman on 16 Jul 2007, 06:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby theblackman » 16 Jul 2007, 06:13

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Postby Igloo » 16 Jul 2007, 06:19

:shock:"four super hard-ons" :shock:


So the Zvez secret is put a booster infront/behind the classics or the stages.
Put a booster in front of anything!
I am feeding that cat later.
He's a classic.
I will put a booster infront of him and see what happens.
Maybe if I get my sister to finger paint a box I can sell him for $300




:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Postby soulsonic » 16 Jul 2007, 08:07

It pretty obvious that the "supersecretclassic" octave generators are just a stupid 1:1 transformer with a full wave rectifier on the secondary. Duh! Standard octavia style thing, just using a different sort of amplifier to drive the transformer. Super super super simple. The patent shown in that link is concerned with modulators specifically, so I'm not sure if it talks about the octave effect - I don't think it does, but the first circuit shown is a type of what they call a "lattice modulator".

The octave effect comes from the full-wave rectifier - the transformers and diodes which Z seems to think are such a great deal. The only thing even halfway unique here is the use of two rectifier stages instead of the usual one. My guess is it's an extra sloppy distorted mess instead of the mostly distorted mess. Why does Z think it's cool to make pedals that are nothing but sloppy noise?
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Postby analogguru » 16 Jul 2007, 08:27

So the Zvex secret is put a booster infront/behind the classics or the stages.
Put a booster in front of anything!


Don´t mix up the things:

theres a super hard-on feeding the octave engine from a (doublesupersecretclassic pedal), feeding another super hard-on for output from the first octave.


That means Zachi is only using the "octave-engine". The "octave-engine" of this "doublesupersecretclassic pedal" is a transformer and 2 diodes. He doesn´t use the driver amplifier (which was "lend" from the helios-console) cause this driver-amplifier would not "crackle" even when it is from a 60´s mixing console. So when Zachi is not lying, then he replaces the driver amp from the Roger Mayer Octavio(a) with a SHO then comes a transformer with two diodes, thereafter the signal is split to two SHO´s - one driving the next transformer and the other acting as output buffer for the first octave - and the fourth SHO is acting as output buffer for the second "octave up".

The priniple of the "octave-engine" is not 100% as described in the cited patent - this would be too sophisticated. The princip is more simple:

If you connect the center-tap of the transformer secondary to ground and feed the primary with a sine-signal the signal will appear on the outer lugs of the secondary in phase-reverse. Now we place a rectifier-diode so that one half-wave of the signal is cut. we will get a chain of sine-halwaves and pauses. Now we do the same on the other lug. We also get this chain of half-waves and pauses but because the signal is in phase reverse the half-waves will occur in the pauses of the first chain. Now we only need to mix together this chain and will get a chain of half-waves with he double frequency. Because they are halfwaves they will not sound like a sine-wave with the double frequency, it will sound distorted.

As long as it is a sine wave, it is not so complicated. But now feed this unit with a more complex signal which contains (odd) harmonics which change with time and level. And also when the signal level decreases at the end of a note and doesn´t reach the threshold of the diodes (0,2V), the octave(s) will dissappear aprupt. This will sound horrable.

But this doesn´t matter - the unit is only designed for guitar players who are stupid enough to send their money to zvex to buy the next toy to play around with.

I don`t understand why the people don´t buy or build a Boss DF-2 (Super Feedbacker & Distortion) instead. If you like you can combine it with an OC-2 and save one signal extractor-stage. Hey, this would be a cool project, maybe I should do it and sell it as "LOVEDOME´s Multi-Octaver" - let´s say - for $ 1000,--/unit ?

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Postby Igloo » 16 Jul 2007, 10:22

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Thats pretty much what I guessed!

Note to self...wherever possible add a SHO!
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Postby briggs » 16 Jul 2007, 10:32

I rattled one up a few months ago. Sounded OK but pretty much useless in terms of the second octave. What did sound cool was when I put it in the effects loop of my delay!
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Postby bajaman » 16 Jul 2007, 10:34

I'm sure a quad opamp such as the TL074 could be used instead of all those hissy mosfets - after all it is only driving a horrible frquency doubling mess as analogguru has observed - you would not have any trouble with crackle then :lol: :lol: :lol:

IMHO octave doublers make you sound worse than you actually are, however my blues harp player uses a BOSS OC2 - sparingly to generate an almost unheard octave below, which adds a warm bottom end to his harp sound - when he switches his EHX POG on he sounds like Donald Duck on Helium :lol: :lol: :lol:, and we sure give him hell until he turns that f***ing thing OFF :wink: :wink:
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Postby archstanton » 20 Jul 2007, 15:33

I remember seeing the above posts by Zach and after a little digging I thought that the octave engine might be from the Brassmaster. I could be way off, since the GEO Brassmaster project at GGG specifies Si diodes instead of Ge.
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Postby soulsonic » 20 Jul 2007, 19:52

The Brassmaster is an interesting circuit, but the octave effect part is still just a transformer with a full-wave rectifier isn't it?
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Postby tomtom » 16 Aug 2007, 00:06

You are right, the octave-engine comes from the Brassmaster with Ge diodes, just look at the schem, he tooks the block from the splitter transistor to the transformer, put a modified SHO in front of it and another after :roll:

Great forum BTW, after some reading I have to post something !
I have some notes I wrote when I tested the unit, got to find them...


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Postby briggs » 16 Aug 2007, 01:27

Great info tomtom. So did he take the block from the output of the "input preamp sensitivity" which travels into the base of Q3 to the the .1uF cap that comes of the transformer secondary?

The scheme I've been looking at is this one here: http://moosapotamus.net/THINGS/brassmaster/Maestro_BB-1_Bass_Brass_Master.gif
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Postby tomtom » 16 Aug 2007, 02:21

"Octave-engine" from Q3 to T1 but 10µ, Ge diodes and TL002.

Modded SHO stages with 1M gate to ground and 470k gate to drain (I have to check if it's not the opposite) ->10µ->47k to V+ and 47k to ground
then "octave-engine". The output of the transformer is connected to another SHO stage with a 50k Vol.pot.

For the second octave, just build that same circuit and put the input at the output of the first transformer and you're almost done.

100R/100µ filter and 1M pulldown at the first input and you have it.
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Postby briggs » 16 Aug 2007, 14:19

8) Cheers tomtom.
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Postby soggybag » 18 Aug 2007, 15:57

There is a project in the stompbox cookbook that generates two octaves, x2 and x4. It includes a mix for each and the straight signal. It also includes a switch that inverts either of the octaves. I think this would be a much more interesting than the Johny Octave.
Last edited by soggybag on 18 Aug 2007, 17:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby soggybag » 18 Aug 2007, 16:59

I just uploaded the files for Distort-0-matic 3 here:
http://rapidshare.com/files/49778866/Di ... 3.zip.html
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Postby kagaxdx » 18 Aug 2007, 17:08

Thank you 8)
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Postby tomtom » 18 Aug 2007, 18:31

I really liked the JO when I tried it, not much response in the lower register but a nice one to solo with, especially the second octave.
It's working great in another effect loop too.

Basically one of the best clean octave I tried.

But the Cookbook one looks nice and much more versatile. The clean
blend thing is a keeper to add some body to the octave. Thanks !!
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