Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

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Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

Postby Ice-9 » 03 Mar 2013, 00:16

Here is a pcb picture and a 1st draft schematic, No Fv-1 part as it is datasheet stuff and patch selection is via pic chip , I can't post eeprom or pic code as it has to be respected as ip.

Image

Image
It's fairly straight forward, if you want to start it , press start. You can work out the rest of the controls for yourself !

No silicon heaven ? preposterous ! Where would all the calculators go ?

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Re: Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

Postby loylo » 03 Mar 2013, 11:21

Thank you so much for this great job! :applause:

Despite english is not my mother tongue, I assume IP stands for Intellectual Propriety (sorry if I am wrong).
I highly respect your decision to not disclose the code, but I just can't understand the rules on FSB on why things can be disclosed "for educationnal purpose or whatever" and some cannot for IP.
Sorry if I bring back an old discussion, and I sure don't mean to be a pain in the butt.

I've wanted to learn about DSP and programming for a while (I've learned basic knowledge during my engineering studies). It may be a nice opportunity to begin as I also have 2 original Echorecs, 1 solidstate PE603 and tube Echorec2, that I'd like to retire. Those things are wearing out!
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Re: Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

Postby loylo » 03 Mar 2013, 11:33

I also have a question. Where is the tone control, I can't find it on your schematic? Is it within the FV-1 circuitry?
According to the catalinbread manual, it is a "tilt" style ton control.
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Re: Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

Postby Ice-9 » 03 Mar 2013, 11:49

loylo wrote:I also have a question. Where is the tone control, I can't find it on your schematic? Is it within the FV-1 circuitry?
According to the catalinbread manual, it is a "tilt" style ton control.


Yes the tone control is taking care of by the FV-1 chip.
It's fairly straight forward, if you want to start it , press start. You can work out the rest of the controls for yourself !

No silicon heaven ? preposterous ! Where would all the calculators go ?
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Re: Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

Postby mrkaploca » 03 Mar 2013, 20:32

Not familiar with fv-1 code but isn't it protected?
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Re: Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

Postby Ice-9 » 03 Mar 2013, 21:45

mrkaploca wrote:Not familiar with fv-1 code but isn't it protected?


Programs are loaded to the FV-1 via an external Eeprom, so to develop your own effects all you need is the datasheet and language from the Spin site. There is lots of info there to learn the coding. As for the code in the echorec I have no intention of reading it, I was just more interested in the electronics of the unit.
It's fairly straight forward, if you want to start it , press start. You can work out the rest of the controls for yourself !

No silicon heaven ? preposterous ! Where would all the calculators go ?
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Re: Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

Postby Skreddy » 03 Mar 2013, 22:59

The input stage is the main "reveal" in this case. There's your secret fuzz mode. :applause:
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Re: Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

Postby mrkaploca » 04 Mar 2013, 17:58

Ice-9 wrote:
mrkaploca wrote:Not familiar with fv-1 code but isn't it protected?


Programs are loaded to the FV-1 via an external Eeprom, so to develop your own effects all you need is the datasheet and language from the Spin site. There is lots of info there to learn the coding. As for the code in the echorec I have no intention of reading it, I was just more interested in the electronics of the unit.

I know the code is in external EEPROM, but I believe it is protected... The whole magic in this circuitry is in the code. :wink:
:thumbsup for contribution!
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Re: Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

Postby coldcraft » 04 Mar 2013, 18:33

that preamp looks very similar to whats in the Way Huge Pork Loin, except they're using 2n7000 it looks like.
Last edited by coldcraft on 04 Mar 2013, 18:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

Postby skywise » 04 Mar 2013, 18:39

mrkaploca wrote:I know the code is in external EEPROM, but I believe it is protected...

It might be. But it's not required. You can load straight code to the EEPROM if you want.
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Re: Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

Postby coldcraft » 04 Mar 2013, 20:18

coldcraft wrote:that preamp looks very similar to whats in the Way Huge Pork Loin, except they're using 2n7000 it looks like.


No, I was wrong. The 2n7000 are used with the EEPROMS, the preamps is transistors, same like the Pork Loin. Not sure what its originally from though.
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Re: Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

Postby Ice-9 » 04 Mar 2013, 21:47

coldcraft wrote:
coldcraft wrote:that preamp looks very similar to whats in the Way Huge Pork Loin, except they're using 2n7000 it looks like.


No, I was wrong. The 2n7000 are used with the EEPROMS, the preamps is transistors, same like the Pork Loin. Not sure what its originally from though.


Yes the 2n7000's are used to switch Eeproms. The buffer transistors are 2n2222a.

@mrkaploca It's not possible to read protect the 24lc32a Eeproms, but reading the code from an Eeprom is of no use for study, only useful if you just want to flash it to another pedal.
It's fairly straight forward, if you want to start it , press start. You can work out the rest of the controls for yourself !

No silicon heaven ? preposterous ! Where would all the calculators go ?
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Re: Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

Postby Jack Deville » 04 Mar 2013, 22:41

Ice-9 wrote:Programs are loaded to the FV-1 via an external Eeprom, so to develop your own effects all you need is the datasheet and language from the Spin site. There is lots of info there to learn the coding. As for the code in the echorec I have no intention of reading it, I was just more interested in the electronics of the unit.

Its that easy.
:lol:
I'm a "professional."
Buy my products and make me rich.

www.jackdeville.com
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Re: Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

Postby Ice-9 » 04 Mar 2013, 23:44

Jack Deville wrote:
Ice-9 wrote:Programs are loaded to the FV-1 via an external Eeprom, so to develop your own effects all you need is the datasheet and language from the Spin site. There is lots of info there to learn the coding. As for the code in the echorec I have no intention of reading it, I was just more interested in the electronics of the unit.

Its that easy.
:lol:



Indeed Jack, and I would never give out anyone elses eeprom data, I have the datasheets and the spin asm stuff and although it is big learning curve (for me) it is low count the instruction set so should be quite easy to learn. :scratch: (the basics anyway)
All credit to Kieth Barr on this chip, it is a shame he is not here anymore to bring more of his huge knowledge to the music scene.
It's fairly straight forward, if you want to start it , press start. You can work out the rest of the controls for yourself !

No silicon heaven ? preposterous ! Where would all the calculators go ?
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Re: Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

Postby coldcraft » 05 Mar 2013, 01:43

i think its interested to take notice of how the FV-1 inputs are being used, with the feedback around channel 2. I wonder why they did that.
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Re: Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

Postby coldcraft » 05 Mar 2013, 04:57

Is the sway control a dual gang pot? On the board it looks like its both a regen and a fv-1 pot. Cool idea.
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Re: Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

Postby Ice-9 » 05 Mar 2013, 11:37

coldcraft wrote:Is the sway control a dual gang pot? On the board it looks like its both a regen and a fv-1 pot. Cool idea.


No the sway pot is single gang. The pot position just below it is not used, it goes to the FV-1 and is the modulation pot which is controlled by an internal preset.
It's fairly straight forward, if you want to start it , press start. You can work out the rest of the controls for yourself !

No silicon heaven ? preposterous ! Where would all the calculators go ?
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Re: Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

Postby coldcraft » 05 Mar 2013, 13:25

Ice-9 wrote:
coldcraft wrote:Is the sway control a dual gang pot? On the board it looks like its both a regen and a fv-1 pot. Cool idea.


No the sway pot is single gang. The pot position just below it is not used, it goes to the FV-1 and is the modulation pot which is controlled by an internal preset.



oh. maybe they plan to use the same PCB for another product then.
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Re: Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

Postby loylo » 05 Mar 2013, 16:47

coldcraft wrote:
Ice-9 wrote:
coldcraft wrote:Is the sway control a dual gang pot? On the board it looks like its both a regen and a fv-1 pot. Cool idea.


No the sway pot is single gang. The pot position just below it is not used, it goes to the FV-1 and is the modulation pot which is controlled by an internal preset.



oh. maybe they plan to use the same PCB for another product then.


Like the "Belle Epoch"?!! :D

Ice-9 wrote:@mrkaploca It's not possible to read protect the 24lc32a Eeproms, but reading the code from an Eeprom is of no use for study, only useful if you just want to flash it to another pedal.

I disagree. Reading some codes could be very instructive. For sure, you "can" learn to code a basic digital delay or a generic digital filter by yourself, given the necessary will. But Coding a "analog-like" filter needs advanced skills that you can learn from developped codes and algorithms. I have an elektor book about DSP with loads of very instructive examples.
I think that reading codes is as stimulating as deciphering analog circuits.

That said, I repeat that I respect your decision to not reveal the Echorec code.

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Re: Catalinbread Echorec - Pic and schematic

Postby coldcraft » 05 Mar 2013, 16:54

loylo wrote:
Ice-9 wrote:@mrkaploca It's not possible to read protect the 24lc32a Eeproms, but reading the code from an Eeprom is of no use for study, only useful if you just want to flash it to another pedal.

I disagree. Reading some codes could be very instructive. For sure, you "can" learn to code a basic digital delay or a generic digital filter by yourself, given the necessary will. But Coding a "analog-like" filter needs advanced skills that you can learn from developped codes and algorithms. I have an elektor book about DSP with loads of very instructive examples.
I think that reading codes is as stimulating as deciphering analog circuits.

That said, I repeat that I respect your decision to not reveal the Echorec code.


I think ICE-9 means that its not possible to "read" (as in "extract") the code from an EEPROM back to the programming language on the computer, but it is possible to copy from one EEPROM to another. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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