Schumann PLL  [traced]

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Re: Schumann PLL

Postby digi2t » 03 Jun 2013, 02:16

Hi all, in the middle of a big move, but I just saw this B.S., and I figured it would be worth the time to sit down and address a couple of things.

1) I appreciate the mention on your schematic, but the nice clean original schematic, is Jonas' masterpiece. I may have moved or adjusted a thing here or there for clarity, but in the end, he took my dog shit, and made honey out of it. It's just that your schematic is so mysteriously similar to Jonas', I can understand the misgivings that it may be causing. I suggest that you carefully reconsider the credits the next time you post something.
2)
some people dont understand the philosophie of this forum.
I believe that most folks here understand the "philosophy" of the forum all too well. Last time I checked, I believe it had something to do with the sharing of information, for the advancement of all diy stompbox builders at all levels. I believe the concept to be fundamentally sound, reasonably fair, and ultimately noble. Truth be told, if it were not for a shitload of people around here, and other forums, I could never have dreamed of achieving a tenth of what I've accomplished to date. Word.

With that said...

If you wish to share, then share. Teasing is shameful. I would not even do that to my dog, or anybody's dog for that matter.
If you do not wish to share, then don't. But do not say things like
Have to find out yourself :wink: the wiring diagram should already be a great help....
, that, is pure jackassery. Apart from my work (which I consider purely a labor of love), please consider all the work that people everywhere have contributed to your causes, and chew your words diligently before spitting them out.

And that's all I have to say about that.
No matter how many times I cut it, it`s STILL too short!

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Re: Schumann PLL

Postby LaceSensor » 03 Jun 2013, 14:11

AmpBastler wrote:no!

Have to find out yourself :wink: the wiring diagram should already be a great help....


You are a hero.

and by hero, I of course mean penis.

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Re: Schumann PLL

Postby sinner » 03 Jun 2013, 14:32

LaceSensor wrote:
AmpBastler wrote:no!

Have to find out yourself :wink: the wiring diagram should already be a great help....


You are a hero.

and by hero, I of course mean penis.


I was thinking since yesterday what to say, and this is exactly what I wanted to.
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Re: Schumann PLL

Postby mäk » 03 Jun 2013, 14:48

guys, dont upset too much. it isn't worth. we all know the saying, and he also, for sure: you are treated as you treat others!
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Re: Schumann PLL

Postby AmpBastler » 03 Jun 2013, 15:25

@LaceSensor, mäk and so on: you have nothing constructive to contribute to the pll thread, only blah blah :wink:

I have startet the wiring diagram right after digi2t posted his hand sketch, thanks for that! and pointed errors to jonas such the missing potentiometer...
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Re: Schumann PLL

Postby Govmnt_Lacky » 03 Jun 2013, 15:38

It is only common courtesy to acknowledge the work of those who have gotten you this far.

If YOU had taken the actual unit, developed a schematic from it, created a layout, and fabbed a PCB and tested it.... then there would be no problems.

Unfortunately, it looks like you came into the mix half-way into it and decided NOT to credit those who helped you thus far. Sure... you did some great work but, you should never forget that you... and ALL of us... are always standing on the shoulders of GIANTS.

No big surprise however, it is a bit disappointing :roll:

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Re: Schumann PLL

Postby AmpBastler » 03 Jun 2013, 16:35

by the way.. my changes do not interest most.

you want always 1:1 clones. no matter how bad the original circuits are :horsey:

And UKToecutter at DIY wants to sell his pcbs...

In jonas "orginal" schematic, C4 should be replaced by a wire bridge. it improves the tracking and prevents the DC run away/latch up.
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Re: Schumann PLL

Postby LaceSensor » 03 Jun 2013, 18:28

AmpBastler wrote:@LaceSensor, mäk and so on: you have nothing constructive to contribute to the pll thread, only blah blah :wink:

I have startet the wiring diagram right after digi2t posted his hand sketch, thanks for that! and pointed errors to jonas such the missing potentiometer...


We cant always contribute something to all threads; of course given the nature of the forum there is a degree of "leeching"
I dont have an issue with people leeching in this way, someone always gives, many people take.
What I do have exception with is an obtuse attitude towards sharing with people who wont ever impact upon your commercial endeavours, and being deliberately obstructive to bringing a nice clone (workalike, adpation, whatever you want to call it) to the DIY community.

I have published very little here, namely a full Lovetone Doppelganger project (1st on the internets, woo) and a Vero for the Lovetone Big Cheese (again, noone else had attempted this). However, even if one person benefits from this it is a triumph for me to give something back and share my pedals which are rare, expensive, and interesting to clone.

I also take execption to the caveat presented of "oh its a modification, therefore I wont share it, cos FSB just wants 100% clones"...erm... these are just a couple of examples why that is bs...

- Lovetone String Ringer v1.2 and v1.3. Some pretty significant mods here, and just as good (and actually better) than the original
- MN3007 projects for a number of flangers etc reliant on SAD chips such as the EH Echoflanger and ADA. Without these endeavours of a number of cool folks, Id never be able to even approximate an ADA flanger given the unobtainability of the chips..

anyway, hats off if you have had a change of heart. any and all information is interesting. My particular interest is to adapt for 9v supply and it seems you can help here, if you want to...

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Re: Schumann PLL

Postby jonasx26 » 03 Jun 2013, 18:57

AmpBastler wrote:In jonas "orginal" schematic, C4 should be replaced by a wire bridge. it improves the tracking and prevents the DC run away/latch up.

Also..
Increase C6+C8 at least an order of magnitude to get out of glitch city.
Insert active LPF between gain and comparator for better tracking.
(Alternatively steal the Boss OC-2 frontend..)

Replace all grounds with 4.5V and all -12V with ground.
Short C4, C5, C7, R5 and R11. Remove R7.
Make R3+R4 33k and remove D5+D6.

Make C11 47n. R10 1MEG. C10 100p.
Remove IC8 and use whatever simple unity gain buffer for IC8a (BJT, FET..)
Alternatively, make the output mixer an active inverting one to allow for easy clean/boosted-mix mod.

In short, all you need is INPUT > GAIN > COMPARATOR > CMOS..
I would (and already have) design a new circuit from scratch.
Would also post a schematic but "Have to find out yourself :wink: " PM me and I'll draw one up for you.

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Re: Schumann PLL

Postby square wave » 03 Jun 2013, 19:37

Putting this on my 'to-build' list. I love these types of pedals. Thanks a ton for your efforts, guys. :D
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Re: Schumann PLL

Postby Pruttelherrie » 03 Jun 2013, 20:49

Hmpf, I had a go at layouting that schematic that AmpBastler posted, but I got stuck really quick :scratch: . Using Eagle light, no way I can get this to work single-sided. Also, populating the board the way he did it requires a bit of planning. If anyone wants to have a go at it, here are the .sch and the .brd so far...

schumann.zip
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Re: Schumann PLL

Postby digi2t » 04 Jun 2013, 03:33

In short, all you need is INPUT > GAIN > COMPARATOR > CMOS..
I would (and already have) design a new circuit from scratch.
Would also post a schematic but "Have to find out yourself :wink: " PM me and I'll draw one up for you.


Jonas... bro... all I can say is,

BOOM!

Or, in the immortal words of the great Gus Grissom, "Fuckin' A Bubba!".

If you wouldn't mind PM'ing that schematic, that would be great. I promise not to twist it around, and make it make it my own. :wink: Thanks bro.

@LaceSensor;
I have published very little here, namely a full Lovetone Doppelganger project (1st on the internets, woo) and a Vero for the Lovetone Big Cheese (again, noone else had attempted this). However, even if one person benefits from this it is a triumph for me to give something back and share my pedals which are rare, expensive, and interesting to clone.


Defintately not "very little" my friend. Like you said, these are rare birds. Rare enough that even if you had contributed one, I would have considered it a great contribution. That's the type of stuff that really gets me amp'ed, rare hen's teeth, readily available to all. Don't sell yourself short man.


The move to the new house is finally starting to settle down. I figure within the next 2 weeks, I should be able to get back to my bench, and box this sucker. Of course, then I'll have to spend a week reassembling my studio, so I can try it. :roll: :lol:
No matter how many times I cut it, it`s STILL too short!
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Re: Schumann PLL

Postby fixxe » 05 Jun 2013, 01:08

AmpBastler wrote:@LaceSensor, mäk and so on: you have nothing constructive to contribute to the pll thread, only blah blah :wink:

I have startet the wiring diagram right after digi2t posted his hand sketch, thanks for that! and pointed errors to jonas such the missing potentiometer...


Link

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Re: Schumann PLL

Postby HEAD » 05 Jun 2013, 13:07

I guess haters are always gonna hate. At least that's where they put most of their efforts and creativity in... thank you for the proof of this hypothesis.

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Re: Schumann PLL

Postby Intripped » 08 Jun 2013, 01:38

I've worked a little on the pics of ampbastler's 9V-version and modified the file kindly posted by Pruttelherrie: components numbering is now matching ampbastler's schem.
values followed by * are taken from the schem worked out by digi2t and jonasx26
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Re: Schumann PLL

Postby Intripped » 09 Jun 2013, 01:59

this should be ampbastler's complete schema and layout.
IC2: CD4016BE or 74HC14N ? this is not clear yet. someone could please confirm the interchangeability?
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Re: Schumann PLL

Postby AmpBastler » 09 Jun 2013, 11:05

Some details are wrong, but otherwise man - well Cloner! :applause:

Fab the pcb and it will sound like the original schumann.
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Re: Schumann PLL

Postby Pruttelherrie » 09 Jun 2013, 12:50

Intripped wrote:this should be ampbastler's complete schema and layout.
IC2: CD4016BE or 74HC14N ? this is not clear yet. someone could please confirm the interchangeability?


Good work! :applause:

The fabbed Dimehead board v1.0 uses a CD4016BE.
Also, the row of pots is ever so slightly staggered to get the pots in the right position.

schumann pll board 9V.jpg
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Re: Schumann PLL

Postby AmpBastler » 09 Jun 2013, 14:10

Pruttelherrie wrote:
Intripped wrote:this should be ampbastler's complete schema and layout.
IC2: CD4016BE or 74HC14N ? this is not clear yet. someone could please confirm the interchangeability?


Good work! :applause:

The fabbed Dimehead board v1.0 uses a CD4016BE.
Also, the row of pots is ever so slightly staggered to get the pots in the right position.

schumann pll board 9V.jpg


Why you post my photo without permission and source? :evil:
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Re: Schumann PLL

Postby sinner » 09 Jun 2013, 14:34

Charming...
AmpBastler wrote:
Pruttelherrie wrote:
Intripped wrote:this should be ampbastler's complete schema and layout.
IC2: CD4016BE or 74HC14N ? this is not clear yet. someone could please confirm the interchangeability?


Good work! :applause:

The fabbed Dimehead board v1.0 uses a CD4016BE.
Also, the row of pots is ever so slightly staggered to get the pots in the right position.

schumann pll board 9V.jpg


Why you post my photo without permission and source? :evil:
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