Dumbloid [traced]
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't lowering the value of those resistors give Q1 and Q2 a much hotter bias? Do you suppose the designer is using them as boosts or to contribute to the distortion in some way? I've read in a couple of earlier posts that these changes seemed "arbitrary" but what if they're intentional?
My pedals are both modded SD-1's. One is the easy low-parts-count mod I shared in "Pimp My Cheap Pedal"; the other is much more complete but one thing I have not messed with is the buffers. Neither of them fizz or crackle although I do hear a transition as the LED seems to decay faster than opamp. YMMV
My pedals are both modded SD-1's. One is the easy low-parts-count mod I shared in "Pimp My Cheap Pedal"; the other is much more complete but one thing I have not messed with is the buffers. Neither of them fizz or crackle although I do hear a transition as the LED seems to decay faster than opamp. YMMV
- mmolteratx
- Degoop Doctor
The bias voltage is set by the 10k/10k voltage divider. The effect of the value of the base resistors on the bias is minimal. The "designer" just randomly swapped parts in and out.1oldsidewinder wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't lowering the value of those resistors give Q1 and Q2 a much hotter bias? Do you suppose the designer is using them as boosts or to contribute to the distortion in some way? I've read in a couple of earlier posts that these changes seemed "arbitrary" but what if they're intentional?
My pedals are both modded SD-1's. One is the easy low-parts-count mod I shared in "Pimp My Cheap Pedal"; the other is much more complete but one thing I have not messed with is the buffers. Neither of them fizz or crackle although I do hear a transition as the LED seems to decay faster than opamp. YMMV
- Cannibal
- Breadboard Brother
Rememer that lowering the 510k resistor on Q1 lowers the input Z, reducing the amount of treble going into the pedal and making the pedal respond better to guitar volume changes.mmolteratx wrote:The bias voltage is set by the 10k/10k voltage divider. The effect of the value of the base resistors on the bias is minimal. The "designer" just randomly swapped parts in and out.1oldsidewinder wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't lowering the value of those resistors give Q1 and Q2 a much hotter bias? Do you suppose the designer is using them as boosts or to contribute to the distortion in some way? I've read in a couple of earlier posts that these changes seemed "arbitrary" but what if they're intentional?
My pedals are both modded SD-1's. One is the easy low-parts-count mod I shared in "Pimp My Cheap Pedal"; the other is much more complete but one thing I have not messed with is the buffers. Neither of them fizz or crackle although I do hear a transition as the LED seems to decay faster than opamp. YMMV
Seiche wrote:there's a difference between being drugged (I don't think it was only booze) and retarded.
- mmolteratx
- Degoop Doctor
Yes, but not significantly enough with 150k at the input. That 100p cap to ground will have considerably more effect on the high end.Cannibal wrote:Rememer that lowering the 510k resistor on Q1 lowers the input Z, reducing the amount of treble going into the pedal and making the pedal respond better to guitar volume changes.mmolteratx wrote:The bias voltage is set by the 10k/10k voltage divider. The effect of the value of the base resistors on the bias is minimal. The "designer" just randomly swapped parts in and out.1oldsidewinder wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't lowering the value of those resistors give Q1 and Q2 a much hotter bias? Do you suppose the designer is using them as boosts or to contribute to the distortion in some way? I've read in a couple of earlier posts that these changes seemed "arbitrary" but what if they're intentional?
My pedals are both modded SD-1's. One is the easy low-parts-count mod I shared in "Pimp My Cheap Pedal"; the other is much more complete but one thing I have not messed with is the buffers. Neither of them fizz or crackle although I do hear a transition as the LED seems to decay faster than opamp. YMMV
- Ripdivot
- Resistor Ronker
Enough talking about the farty decay, I thought it was time to record it. The following clip consists of 3 parts. The first section is played through my dumbloid clone on the breadboard with a strat through a deluxe reverb reissue dry with no effects or processing. The second part is played through the AN Big Bloom (borrowed from a friend) with a strat through a deluxe reverb reissue dry with no effects. The third part of the clip is played through the ANBB again but this time with some chorus, delay and reverb added post recording. In the first 2 parts you can hear how dynamic the pedals are. The effects were added to the third part to try and mask the farty decay of the ANBB. The first 2 sections of the clip clearly show the farty decay and it can be heard at the end of the third part as well. I like the sound but not the decay. I have found if you feed the pedal into a slightly dirty amp it masks the decay pretty well. I tried setting the pedals to sound as close as possible and I got pretty close but the ANBB is slightly brighter and has slightly more gain but you get the idea.
- mmolteratx
- Degoop Doctor
Yep. That's that op amp distortion we all know and (love or) hate.Ripdivot wrote:Enough talking about the farty decay, I thought it was time to record it. The following clip consists of 3 parts. The first section is played through my dumbloid clone on the breadboard with a strat through a deluxe reverb reissue dry with no effects or processing. The second part is played through the AN Big Bloom (borrowed from a friend) with a strat through a deluxe reverb reissue dry with no effects. The third part of the clip is played through the ANBB again but this time with some chorus, delay and reverb added post recording. In the first 2 parts you can hear how dynamic the pedals are. The effects were added to the third part to try and mask the farty decay of the ANBB. The first 2 sections of the clip clearly show the farty decay and it can be heard at the end of the third part as well. I like the sound but not the decay. I have found if you feed the pedal into a slightly dirty amp it masks the decay pretty well. I tried setting the pedals to sound as close as possible and I got pretty close but the ANBB is slightly brighter and has slightly more gain but you get the idea.
- Manfred
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Nobody gave me any answer.Manfred wrote:Is the single clipping LED of the Dumbloid a common red LED.
I wonder because there are special 5V red LEDs availabel which conducting already at lower voltages.
The latch-up happens at first at the negative voltage output swing, so a 5V LED could make sense to avoid the latch-up.
Who knows about the applied LED-Type at the Dumbloid?
I wonder if the applied LED type is identified.
I would appreciate very much if anybody could answer my question.
- Ripdivot
- Resistor Ronker
I can't answer your question but I can tell you this: I have tried every led and diode type I have as well as putting in multiple LEDs back to back to raise the break over point and none of it has helped. Yesterday I tried back to back LEDs and diodes (like in a tube screamer) in both stages and I was surprised it didn't help either. I thought for sure if there was clipping diodes in both stages it would solve the problem but it didn't. I am moving on to something else.Manfred wrote:Nobody gave me any answer.Manfred wrote:Is the single clipping LED of the Dumbloid a common red LED.
I wonder because there are special 5V red LEDs availabel which conducting already at lower voltages.
The latch-up happens at first at the negative voltage output swing, so a 5V LED could make sense to avoid the latch-up.
Who knows about the applied LED-Type at the Dumbloid?
I wonder if the applied LED type is identified.
I would appreciate very much if anybody could answer my question.
- Manfred
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Thank you very much indeed.Ripdivot wrote:I can't answer your question but I can tell you this: I have tried every led and diode type I have as well as putting in multiple LEDs back to back to raise the break over point and none of it has helped. Yesterday I tried back to back LEDs and diodes (like in a tube screamer) in both stages and I was surprised it didn't help either. I thought for sure if there was clipping diodes in both stages it would solve the problem but it didn't. I am moving on to something else.Manfred wrote:Nobody gave me any answer.Manfred wrote:Is the single clipping LED of the Dumbloid a common red LED.
I wonder because there are special 5V red LEDs availabel which conducting already at lower voltages.
The latch-up happens at first at the negative voltage output swing, so a 5V LED could make sense to avoid the latch-up.
Who knows about the applied LED-Type at the Dumbloid?
I wonder if the applied LED type is identified.
I would appreciate very much if anybody could answer my question.
Nice playing. If you could post a clip with the LED lifted, we could eliminate it as a source of the nasty decay assuming the rattle is still there.Ripdivot wrote:Enough talking about the farty decay, I thought it was time to record it. The following clip consists of 3 parts. The first section is played through my dumbloid clone on the breadboard with a strat through a deluxe reverb reissue dry with no effects or processing. The second part is played through the AN Big Bloom (borrowed from a friend) with a strat through a deluxe reverb reissue dry with no effects. The third part of the clip is played through the ANBB again but this time with some chorus, delay and reverb added post recording. In the first 2 parts you can hear how dynamic the pedals are. The effects were added to the third part to try and mask the farty decay of the ANBB. The first 2 sections of the clip clearly show the farty decay and it can be heard at the end of the third part as well. I like the sound but not the decay. I have found if you feed the pedal into a slightly dirty amp it masks the decay pretty well. I tried setting the pedals to sound as close as possible and I got pretty close but the ANBB is slightly brighter and has slightly more gain but you get the idea.
Also, AN has posted elsewhere that the Big Bloom uses a 1k5 resistor in place of the 1k8 for the HP filter which would raise the raise the cutoff from ~400 to ~500hz and account for the difference in tone.
- Ripdivot
- Resistor Ronker
Thanks! I am at work so can't post another clip. I won't waist your time because way back when I first bread boarded this circuit the first thing I tried was lifting the LED and it didn't help the farty decay. My circuit has the 1k5 resistor. The slight differences in tone just come down to component tolerances and control settings I think.1oldsidewinder wrote:Nice playing. If you could post a clip with the LED lifted, we could eliminate it as a source of the nasty decay assuming the rattle is still there.Ripdivot wrote:Enough talking about the farty decay, I thought it was time to record it. The following clip consists of 3 parts. The first section is played through my dumbloid clone on the breadboard with a strat through a deluxe reverb reissue dry with no effects or processing. The second part is played through the AN Big Bloom (borrowed from a friend) with a strat through a deluxe reverb reissue dry with no effects. The third part of the clip is played through the ANBB again but this time with some chorus, delay and reverb added post recording. In the first 2 parts you can hear how dynamic the pedals are. The effects were added to the third part to try and mask the farty decay of the ANBB. The first 2 sections of the clip clearly show the farty decay and it can be heard at the end of the third part as well. I like the sound but not the decay. I have found if you feed the pedal into a slightly dirty amp it masks the decay pretty well. I tried setting the pedals to sound as close as possible and I got pretty close but the ANBB is slightly brighter and has slightly more gain but you get the idea.
Also, AN has posted elsewhere that the Big Bloom uses a 1k5 resistor in place of the 1k8 for the HP filter which would raise the raise the cutoff from ~400 to ~500hz and account for the difference in tone.
- IvIark
- Tube Twister
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Come on be fair, I bet if you'd handed over $900 in total buying the same $10 worth of components twice, psychoacoustics would make it sonic nirvana to you too!
"If anyone is a 'genius' for putting jacks in such a pedal in the only spot where they could physically fit, then I assume I too am a genius for correctly inserting my legs into my pants this morning." - candletears7 - TGP
- mirosol
- Resistor Ronker
Yup. The crappy decay is a feature. Which rather funnily makes not only a slight TS derivative, but a bad TS derivative.
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- Nocentelli
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I was curious about the decay, and watched the pete thorn demo carefully a couple of times to see if i could hear any fizz, and he doesn't allow a chord or single note to fade out even once.
modman wrote: ↑ Let's hope it's not a hit, because soldering up the same pedal everyday, is a sad life. It's that same ole devilish double bind again...
What I really find curious are the posts where guys have tried every possible combination of clipping diodes and it apparently hasn't helped. It seems like converting the pedal to diode clipping would solve the problem if the rattle was indeed a product of op-amp distortion. If someone was to replace the accent control network with a 1k resistor and add a pair of LEDs to the first stage, it would be a CJOD with a slightly different voicing; a pedal not known for *farty* decay. If I were to pursue this, I'd continue to look at the many other changes the designer made. Either that, or build a CJOD and voice it like the Dumbloid.
- Ripdivot
- Resistor Ronker
I noticed the same thing, He is being paid to demo the pedal though.Nocentelli wrote:I was curious about the decay, and watched the pete thorn demo carefully a couple of times to see if i could hear any fizz, and he doesn't allow a chord or single note to fade out even once.
Yep that's the one. Nailed on. Glad I'm not going insane.Ripdivot wrote:Enough talking about the farty decay, I thought it was time to record it. The following clip consists of 3 parts. The first section is played through my dumbloid clone on the breadboard with a strat through a deluxe reverb reissue dry with no effects or processing. The second part is played through the AN Big Bloom (borrowed from a friend) with a strat through a deluxe reverb reissue dry with no effects. The third part of the clip is played through the ANBB again but this time with some chorus, delay and reverb added post recording. In the first 2 parts you can hear how dynamic the pedals are. The effects were added to the third part to try and mask the farty decay of the ANBB. The first 2 sections of the clip clearly show the farty decay and it can be heard at the end of the third part as well. I like the sound but not the decay. I have found if you feed the pedal into a slightly dirty amp it masks the decay pretty well. I tried setting the pedals to sound as close as possible and I got pretty close but the ANBB is slightly brighter and has slightly more gain but you get the idea.
- The G
- Grease Monkey
+11oldsidewinder wrote:What I really find curious are the posts where guys have tried every possible combination of clipping diodes and it apparently hasn't helped. It seems like converting the pedal to diode clipping would solve the problem if the rattle was indeed a product of op-amp distortion.
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