Dumbloid  [traced]

General documentation, gut shot, schematic links, ongoing circuit tracing, deep thoughts ... all about boutique stompboxes.

Re: Dumbloid

Postby bloomz » 02 Apr 2014, 19:35

Nocentelli wrote:
GeSi wrote:looks real nice!
but most important... how does it sound ;)


Fastocker wrote: certainly not worthy of all the fuss IMO


So of course I've been watching this - and trying to stay out of it but curiosity got the better of me.

I noticed some changes you guy made to the circuit or the op amp or something else that's over my head.

Did it improve on it, compromise it, tone it down, turn it up, or what?

How does it sound is the $600 question. Because the original pedal was/IS worthy of all the fuss. Not sure $600 worth of fuss, but very happy being in for $300.

Can anyone post a clip? Even better a comparison clip.
bloomz
 
Posts: 39
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 03:25
Has thanked: 47 times
Have thanks: 1 time

Re: Dumbloid

Postby IvIark » 02 Apr 2014, 20:20

My layout didn't change the circuit. I added an additional layout that included a couple of diodes if that is what you would prefer over opamp clipping (which essentially makes it a TS808 with a couple of minor tweaked part values), but the main layout I did is as per the trace. Why are you finding it so hard to accept that not everyone may like this circuit as much as you do? The original, the Big Bloom and the layouts here will ALL have a certain amount of opamp clipping which isn't everyone's cup of tea, so some people may opt to use other opamps in an attempt to choose one that clips with their gear in a more pleasant way. I'm afraid the fact will remain that to some people it will sound shit.
"If anyone is a 'genius' for putting jacks in such a pedal in the only spot where they could physically fit, then I assume I too am a genius for correctly inserting my legs into my pants this morning." - candletears7 - TGP

For this message the author IvIark has received thanks: 2
bloomz (03 Apr 2014, 05:00), okgb (02 Apr 2014, 21:17)
User avatar
IvIark
Tube Twister
 
Posts: 2297
Joined: 02 Jan 2008, 00:59
Location: Manchester UK
Has thanked: 668 times
Have thanks: 682 times

Re: Dumbloid

Postby alfieboy » 02 Apr 2014, 21:35

Hi IVIark

I built you handy layout as a project with the right op amp and transistors and got a really gated fuzz effect. I then built a new one and got the same thing. Any ideas?

Thank you.
alfieboy
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 28 Feb 2013, 10:23
Has thanked: 1 time
Have thanks: 0 time

Re: Dumbloid

Postby IvIark » 02 Apr 2014, 21:51

Measure the DC voltages you're getting between all transistor and opamp pins and ground and post them here. That will give us a good clue if something looks amiss. Or you may just think opamp clipping is shit :)
"If anyone is a 'genius' for putting jacks in such a pedal in the only spot where they could physically fit, then I assume I too am a genius for correctly inserting my legs into my pants this morning." - candletears7 - TGP
User avatar
IvIark
Tube Twister
 
Posts: 2297
Joined: 02 Jan 2008, 00:59
Location: Manchester UK
Has thanked: 668 times
Have thanks: 682 times

Re: Dumbloid

Postby alfieboy » 02 Apr 2014, 21:54

:lol: Maybe.

It's strange, like an under biased fuzz face.

I'll measure the voltages and post them.
alfieboy
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 28 Feb 2013, 10:23
Has thanked: 1 time
Have thanks: 0 time

Re: Dumbloid

Postby alfieboy » 02 Apr 2014, 22:00

The transistor voltages I'm getting are =
Q1
C - 9.17v
B - 5.16v
E - 4.84v

Q2
C - 9.23v
B - 5.11v
E - 4.58v
alfieboy
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 28 Feb 2013, 10:23
Has thanked: 1 time
Have thanks: 0 time

Re: Dumbloid

Postby mmolteratx » 02 Apr 2014, 22:14

Well, update on PCB status. They came in today, but I accidentally ordered a previous revision that doesn't work. :slap: Will reorder in the next few days.

alfieboy wrote:The transistor voltages I'm getting are =
Q1
C - 9.17v
B - 5.16v
E - 4.84v

Q2
C - 9.23v
B - 5.11v
E - 4.58v


What about the op amp?
mmolteratx
Degoop Doctor
 
Posts: 510
Joined: 19 Dec 2009, 02:50
Has thanked: 103 times
Have thanks: 628 times

Re: Dumbloid

Postby bloomz » 02 Apr 2014, 22:24

IvIark wrote: Why are you finding it so hard to accept that not everyone may like this circuit as much as you do? I'm afraid the fact will remain that to some people it will sound shit.


What gives you that idea???

I'm asking to see if I'm missing something you guys discovered that I may not know.

I have no problem at all accepting there may be something better.

It was a sincere question.

Why are you trying to hard so put words into my mouth?
Last edited by bloomz on 02 Apr 2014, 22:27, edited 2 times in total.
bloomz
 
Posts: 39
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 03:25
Has thanked: 47 times
Have thanks: 1 time

Re: Dumbloid

Postby alfieboy » 02 Apr 2014, 22:26

Op Amp
1- 5.08v
2- 0.55v
3- 5.57v
4 - 0v
5- 7.99v
6- 8.04v
7- 8.19v
9- 9.24v

Thanks.
alfieboy
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 28 Feb 2013, 10:23
Has thanked: 1 time
Have thanks: 0 time

Re: Dumbloid

Postby IvIark » 02 Apr 2014, 22:28

alfieboy wrote:The transistor voltages I'm getting are =
Q1
C - 9.17v
B - 5.16v
E - 4.84v

Q2
C - 9.23v
B - 5.11v
E - 4.58v


Base and emitter voltages all look high. Post the IC voltages
"If anyone is a 'genius' for putting jacks in such a pedal in the only spot where they could physically fit, then I assume I too am a genius for correctly inserting my legs into my pants this morning." - candletears7 - TGP
User avatar
IvIark
Tube Twister
 
Posts: 2297
Joined: 02 Jan 2008, 00:59
Location: Manchester UK
Has thanked: 668 times
Have thanks: 682 times

Re: Dumbloid

Postby alfieboy » 02 Apr 2014, 22:39

Posted above. They also seems high to me.
alfieboy
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 28 Feb 2013, 10:23
Has thanked: 1 time
Have thanks: 0 time

Re: Dumbloid

Postby Fastocker » 02 Apr 2014, 22:45

Just to clarify -- I first built IVIark's layout EXACTLY to Dumbloid spec including the correct opamp and pot values. Tried it out, then decided to try a few different opamps for fun . . . and I liked the MC33172N as johnk recommended -- it just sounded a bit more like a saturated amp to me (slightly less fuzzy decay). It's a very miniscule change but I could hear a slight difference and preferred it over the original chip. Again, a very minor change. The nice thing about a DIY project? No goop so I can try different components if I wish.

Then I realized I didn't like the TONE or VOLUME pots -- with the switch on ROCK, the tone got very bright after 9:00 on the dial and the 'sweet spot' (for me, at least) was very small. That's typical of linear pot here -- I didn't like it and prefer the more gradual sweep of an audio pot . . . it's just easier to adjust. Same for the volume -- with the 100K pot it goes into boost after about 9:00 on my rig -- I prefer a more gradual volume increase. Neither of these 'mods' change the sound, they only allow for better adjustability.

I'll stand by my 'not worth the fuss' comment. It's a nice circuit, I get the whole Dumble thing, it sounds pretty good . . . but it's not worth the $300 to me, let alone $600. And if anyone bought one of the $999 double versions on eBay, I'd have to ask . . . . how high was the tree you fell out of? Did it hurt landing on your head? And I trust my own ears, too -- been playing since 1970, gone through tons of gear, yada yada.

But I also realize that I'm looking at this from the perspective of a DIY guy -- it's much easier for me to experiement with circuits and such than someone who doesn't know which end is the business end of a soldering iron. As such, I don't get real excited about ODs or fuzz pedals or whathaveyou and can be a bit jaded at times . . . but if you're happy with your purchase, no need to keep coming back and reiterating -- we fuckin' get it aleady. :)

(Don't feel bad, I pretty much had the same reaction when I built a Jan Ray . . . )

For this message the author Fastocker has received thanks:
bloomz (02 Apr 2014, 23:13)
Fastocker
 
Posts: 38
Joined: 16 Mar 2010, 18:10
Has thanked: 12 times
Have thanks: 70 times

Re: Dumbloid

Postby IvIark » 02 Apr 2014, 23:05

alfieboy wrote:Op Amp
1- 5.08v
2- 0.55v
3- 5.57v
4 - 0v
5- 7.99v
6- 8.04v
7- 8.19v
9- 9.24v

Thanks.


Yes the only ones that look as expected are 4 and 8 :D
But starting at the beginning the one that really stands out is pin 2 which is far too low. Check your soldering of all components on that row and the IC pins themselves. Reflow the solder if any of the joints look suspect.

My only reservation here is that you've built this twice with the same results which could point to a faulty batch, or mislabelled components maybe? Double check everything, look for shorts, make sure cuts are clean, check soldering and values. If you don't spot anything post a front and back pic of your build so we can see if anything stands out
"If anyone is a 'genius' for putting jacks in such a pedal in the only spot where they could physically fit, then I assume I too am a genius for correctly inserting my legs into my pants this morning." - candletears7 - TGP

For this message the author IvIark has received thanks:
alfieboy (02 Apr 2014, 23:07)
User avatar
IvIark
Tube Twister
 
Posts: 2297
Joined: 02 Jan 2008, 00:59
Location: Manchester UK
Has thanked: 668 times
Have thanks: 682 times

Re: Dumbloid

Postby bloomz » 02 Apr 2014, 23:06

Thank you Fastocker - your post made sense to me a bit. Quite a bit actually.

As for soldering irons - you hold it by the hot end correct?
Last edited by bloomz on 02 Apr 2014, 23:12, edited 1 time in total.
bloomz
 
Posts: 39
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 03:25
Has thanked: 47 times
Have thanks: 1 time

Re: Dumbloid

Postby rocklander » 02 Apr 2014, 23:07

bloomz wrote:Why are you trying to hard so put words into my mouth?

I think you mean "Why are you trying so hard to put words into my mouth"





/irony
world's greatest tautologist ...in the world

Ronsonic wrote:...the lower the stakes the more vicious the combat.


For this message the author rocklander has received thanks: 2
bloomz (03 Apr 2014, 01:14), IvIark (02 Apr 2014, 23:10)
User avatar
rocklander
Old Solderhand
 
Posts: 2889
Joined: 18 Apr 2008, 12:33
Location: Rotorua, New Zealand
Has thanked: 1580 times
Have thanks: 290 times

Re: Dumbloid

Postby Fastocker » 02 Apr 2014, 23:50

bloomz wrote:As for soldering irons - you hold it by the hot end correct?


Yes, that's correct . . .

For this message the author Fastocker has received thanks:
bloomz (03 Apr 2014, 01:14)
Fastocker
 
Posts: 38
Joined: 16 Mar 2010, 18:10
Has thanked: 12 times
Have thanks: 70 times

Re: Dumbloid

Postby bloomz » 03 Apr 2014, 00:20

rocklander wrote:
bloomz wrote:Why are you trying to hard so put words into my mouth?

I think you mean "Why are you trying so hard to put words into my mouth"

/irony


ahhh, the grammar police strike again - color me corrected
bloomz
 
Posts: 39
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 03:25
Has thanked: 47 times
Have thanks: 1 time

Re: Dumbloid

Postby sinner » 03 Apr 2014, 00:22

bloomz wrote:
rocklander wrote:
bloomz wrote:Why are you trying to hard so put words into my mouth?

I think you mean "Why are you trying so hard to put words into my mouth"

/irony


ahhh, the grammar police strike again - color me corrected



Go home Gypsy
sinner
Old Solderhand
 
Posts: 4810
Joined: 06 Nov 2008, 18:16
Location: ...no more
Has thanked: 1240 times
Have thanks: 1100 times

Re: Dumbloid

Postby rocklander » 03 Apr 2014, 00:55

bloomz wrote:
rocklander wrote:
bloomz wrote:Why are you trying to hard so put words into my mouth?

I think you mean "Why are you trying so hard to put words into my mouth"

/irony


ahhh, the grammar police strike again - colour me corrected

fix'd :hug:
world's greatest tautologist ...in the world

Ronsonic wrote:...the lower the stakes the more vicious the combat.


For this message the author rocklander has received thanks: 2
astrobass (03 Apr 2014, 04:26), bloomz (03 Apr 2014, 01:14)
User avatar
rocklander
Old Solderhand
 
Posts: 2889
Joined: 18 Apr 2008, 12:33
Location: Rotorua, New Zealand
Has thanked: 1580 times
Have thanks: 290 times

Re: Dumbloid

Postby guitarpkr76 » 03 Apr 2014, 01:44

mmolteratx wrote:Well, update on PCB status. They came in today, but I accidentally ordered a previous revision that doesn't work. :slap: Will reorder in the next few days.



That stinks, man. I don't mind paying a little extra when you get the new ones to help offset the cost of the bad boards.
guitarpkr76
 
Posts: 42
Joined: 03 Dec 2007, 13:54
Has thanked: 3 times
Have thanks: 0 time

PreviousNext

Return to Boutique Stompboxes dissected...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests