Bogner La Grange  [traced]

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Re: Bogner La Grange

Postby Manfred » 01 Dec 2017, 18:00

Why do you have an arrow going to the right of the switch? The cap is in series with pin 2 and not in parallel.


I omitted the capacitor in parallal to the clipping diodes.
The 100nF is the coupling capacitor.
The right switch goes to then next stage.

An asymmetrical instead of symmetrical clipping , it is a matter of taste.

There are better reads to find in the web regarding clipping circuits,
I read the most of it in the recent years.
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Re: Bogner La Grange

Postby Lithium_Grim » 01 Dec 2017, 18:20

Manfred wrote:I omitted the capacitor in parallal to the clipping diodes.


There is no capacitor in parallel that's just it. Look at the cutout of the trace I posted a few posts back. It's in series.
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Re: Bogner La Grange

Postby Manfred » 01 Dec 2017, 21:34

There is no capacitor in parallel that's just it. Look at the cutout of the trace I posted a few posts back. It's in series.


Thanks, for the hint.
So, I have to change the schematic once again.
The type 2 and type 3 switches cannot easily draw as schematic symbol,
I have to think about it.
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Re: Bogner La Grange

Postby Manfred » 03 Dec 2017, 08:31

Structer switch changed and 47nF capacitor omitted.

BognerLaGrange7.JPG
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Re: Bogner La Grange

Postby bajaman » 03 Dec 2017, 09:45

ffs :roll: the 47n is in series!!!!!!
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Re: Bogner La Grange

Postby Lithium_Grim » 03 Dec 2017, 10:46

Like this (I love paint :D )

BognerLaGrange7.JPG
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Re: Bogner La Grange

Postby Manfred » 03 Dec 2017, 17:36

Lithium_Grim wrote:Like this (I love paint :D )

BognerLaGrange7.JPG


Ok, I love painting too, further changes are always welcome. :D

BognerLaGrange8.JPG
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Re: Bogner La Grange

Postby Thimotti » 05 Dec 2017, 17:40

Manfred wrote:There are three types of ON-ON-ON miniature switches, these differ in the switching scheme.

ON-ON-ON_switch types.jpg


I have examined which switching scheme could work and found that only the switch type 3 met the requirements.

BognerLaGrangeStructure1.JPG

BognerLaGrangeStructure2.JPG

BognerLaGrangeStructure3.JPG


Hi Manfred and Lithium_Grim,

Let's talk about the structure and voltage Threshold:

Vth of Red Led: 2.2v typ
Vth of Ger Diode: 1v max
Vth of Mosfet: 0.88v typ 1.5v max

Are you sure of:
Pos 1: Ger + Mosfet
Pos 2: Only Mosfet
Pos 3: Only Led
?

Makes more sense to me:
Pos 1: Ger + Mosfet
Pos 2: Red Led + Ger
Pos 3: Only Led

Could you explain me better? Thanks.
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Re: Bogner La Grange

Postby Manfred » 06 Dec 2017, 04:13

Vth of Ger Diode: 1v max


In general, the clipping start is deteremined by the lowest threshold voltage knee.
In the case of a Germanium diode the clipping starts at the minimum threshold voltages of 0.3 to 0.4 Volts.

If different types of diodes are connected in parallel the diode with the lowest threshold determines the clipping behaviour,
therefore, in my opinion, your suggestion makes no sense.
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Re: Bogner La Grange

Postby Thimotti » 06 Dec 2017, 15:32

Manfred wrote:
Vth of Ger Diode: 1v max

In the case of a Germanium diode the clipping starts at the minimum threshold voltages of 0.3 to 0.4 Volts.

Oh, very thanks. This is the information that I was looking for.
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Re: Bogner La Grange

Postby Lithium_Grim » 10 Dec 2017, 17:22

Looking at the clipping section again It seems that besides the wrong position of the 47nF capacitor (C1), there is nothing wrong with the SP3T configuration vs the DP3T. Let's throw some proof in:
LED.jpg
2N7000.jpg
1N34A.jpg


As you can see, Uf LEd = 1.9V, Uf 2N7000 is 0.72V, Uf Ge = 0,58V (Yes, it's a 1N34A and not a 1N270)
So in the DP3T of Manfred
1. GE+Fet = 0,58 vs 0,72 > Ge determines clipping
2. Fet > Fet determines clipping
3. LED > LED determines

Now in the before mentioned SP3T configuration:
1. GE+ LED = 0,58 vs 1,9V > Ge determines
2. LED > LED determines
3. Fet+LED = 0,72 vs 1,9V > Fet determines

So if Uf truly is the only factor determines clipping, I'd use the SP3T.
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Re: Bogner La Grange

Postby Saruman » 11 Dec 2017, 08:29

The best live sound with the LED. Other is not used.

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Re: Bogner La Grange

Postby Manfred » 11 Dec 2017, 10:26

So if Uf truly is the only factor determines clipping, I'd use the SP3T.


On the PCB image above is a DP3T switch applied, now you suggest a SP3T switch.
Please make a sketch how you wired it, than I going to change the schemativ drawing again.
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Re: Bogner La Grange

Postby Lithium_Grim » 11 Dec 2017, 11:18

Yes, the PCB trace shows a DP3T so you need not change the schematic.
The only thing I try to point out is that the SP3T is also valid and gives the same options as the DP3T as long as Uf is the only determining factor for the clipping section.
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Re: Bogner La Grange

Postby Lithium_Grim » 12 Dec 2017, 12:51

I made some PCB's with all kinds of optional mods on board, based on the SP3T clipping section. Tested them and it truly sounds sweet. If anyone is interested you can PM me.

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Re: Bogner La Grange

Postby nycLPplayer » 19 Dec 2017, 16:31

Hope you guys dont mind the post but my LG appears to be dead on the OD side only (both sides light up). Boost still works and confirmed it is not power, cable, or amp.

Image

light blue squares i get not voltage

yellow stars I get voltage but 0 on the rest of that side of the chip
purple starts I get no voltage but readings on the rest of that side of the chip

Hoping it is just a bad part I can swap as I got this at a steal but then it died after 2 days.
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Re: Bogner La Grange

Postby nycLPplayer » 19 Dec 2017, 17:23

nycLPplayer wrote:Hope you guys dont mind the post but my LG appears to be dead on the OD side only (both sides light up). Boost still works and confirmed it is not power, cable, or amp.

[ Image ]

light blue squares i get not voltage

yellow stars I get voltage but 0 on the rest of that side of the chip
purple starts I get no voltage but readings on the rest of that side of the chip

Hoping it is just a bad part I can swap as I got this at a steal but then it died after 2 days.



All the no voltage areas....maybe the big microcontroller

Image
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Re: Bogner La Grange

Postby FeVeR2112 » 19 Dec 2017, 17:43

If it is the PIC chip and it hasn't been put in protected mode, you will need to obtain the programming from either some one with the pedal who is willing to remove the chip/extract the Hex file .... or have Bogner supply a new chip or the program file.

You might obtain the programming from the existing PIC chip but it would be suspect for integrity.

At least the chip is socketed :D

While relays and programmed micro-controller chips are nice, they can be a repair stumbling block.
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Re: Bogner La Grange

Postby nycLPplayer » 19 Dec 2017, 18:10

FeVeR2112 wrote:If it is the PIC chip and it hasn't been put in protected mode, you will need to obtain the programming from either some one with the pedal who is willing to remove the chip/extract the Hex file .... or have Bogner supply a new chip or the program file.

You might obtain the programming from the existing PIC chip but it would be suspect for integrity.

At least the chip is socketed :D

While relays and programmed micro-controller chips are nice, they can be a repair stumbling block.



Much appreciated....I thought I could part swap a new chip. Looks like this is going back.
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Re: Bogner La Grange

Postby Lithium_Grim » 29 Dec 2017, 14:00

If (like me) you experience strange behavior when in boost only mode and turning the volume of your guitar down then consider putting a 10K between your guitar and the input of the Boost section. like this (Rx):
Bogner La Grange modified Boost.JPG

You could also consider to put Rx after C6 instead of before. Also you might consider a lower value then 10k (eg. 1k) if you think it is snooping off too much bass.

Personally I prefer this:
Bogner La Grange modified Boost pref.JPG
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