Bogner - La Grange  [traced]

General documentation, gut shot, schematic links, ongoing circuit tracing, deep thoughts ... all about boutique stompboxes.
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FuzzMonkey
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Post by FuzzMonkey »

Thank you for the schematic. I've been checking back periodically in hope that you'd post it.

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Intripped
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Post by Intripped »

...i can't see the image.
Saruman, could you please post it again?

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okgb
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Post by okgb »

A bit off topic, but has anyone seen one of the bogner pedals with a signal transformer ?
curious if this adds any mojo other than cost!

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bucksears
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Post by bucksears »

This is awesome!
I hope a Blue isn't far behind!

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Shrila
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Post by Shrila »

Привет Сарумян, скажи плиз, как удалось так аккуратно эпоксидку раскрошить?
У меня есть педалька от одного местного мастера, тоже залита плата,
хотел ее в другой корпус перенести, менее габаритный, а то в борде уже тесно.
Hi Sarumyan, tell me please, how did you manage to break the epoxy so neatly?
I have a pedal from a local builder, the board is crowded too,
I wanted to move it to another box, a smaller one, although the board is already cramped.

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Saruman_
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Post by Saruman_ »

Shrila, я не армянин, я ближе к Братству Кольца)))) Есть там такой Саруман. Потрошу примочки с юности. Если кратко, то технология такая: кладёшь на застывшую эпоксидку (блок) бумагу для выпечки в духовке. На неё утюг, температуру градусов 200-250, следишь, чтобы плавиться не начало, но нагрелось хорошо. Далее резко в морозилку минут на 15. Так 2 раза. Всё, структура эпоксидки нарушена. Далее берёшь паяльник с острым коническим жалом и между деталями просто выплавляешь отверстия до платы. Далее шилом просто отколупываются фрагменты.

А что за примочку ломануть хочешь? Я поражаюсь лени англоязычных владельцев богнер экстази педали. Ломануть дело максимум 3х дней...всё жду, что кто то этим займётся!
Shrila, I'm not Armenian, I'm closer to the Fellowship of the Ring)))) There is such a Saruman there. I've been gutting pedals since my youth. In short, the technology is as follows: you put baking foil paper in the oven on the hardened epoxy (block). An iron on it, the temperature is 200-250 degrees, you make sure that it does not start melting, but it warms up well. Then quickly move it in the freezer and leave it for 15 minutes. Do that 2 times. That's it, the structure of the epoxy is broken. Next, you take a soldering iron with a sharp conical tip and just melt holes between the parts to the board. Further, the fragments are simply split off with an awl.

And what kind of pedal do you want to break? I am amazed at the laziness of the English speaking Bogner Ecstasy pedal owners. Break the case for a maximum of 3 days ... I'm still waiting for someone to do it!

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Shrila
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Post by Shrila »

Дык я в контексте Гоблина (Пучкова) и обратился))). Спасибо за технологию, надо будет попробовать. Примочка не фирмовая, самопал, но очень приятно звучит на мой вкус. Корпус у нее ломовой уж очень, много места в борде занимает. Я хочу ее в стандартный Хаммонд 1590В перетащить. Там плата эпоксидкой залита. Хочу хотябы половину снять, чтобы отпилить лишнее)).
So I'm in the context of Goblin (Puchkov) and turned))). Thanks for the technology, I'll have to try. The pedal is homemade, not a commercial one, but it sounds very nice to my taste. It is very heavy, it takes up a lot of space on the pedalboard. I want to move it into a standard Hammond 1590B. The PCB is covered with epoxy. At the very least, I'd like to take off half to cut off the excess)).

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Post by FeVeR2112 »

what's up with the bzx884-b10 diodes? what value would these serve? In a box-o-rock these would be 9V zener diodes? What would it be for 18V?

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Post by induction »

Those diodes protect the mosfets from static discharge. Older mosfets will be damaged if the voltage difference between the gate and source is greater than 20V (newer mosfets have internal diodes to protect them). It's unlikely you need to change the diodes for 18V operation, but any Zener with a value under 18V or so will do the job. They only operate if there's a voltage spike (which would usually come from plugging a cord into the pedal input, not from a large guitar signal), so there should be little or no sonic impact of using different diodes.

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Post by TONYBOOM »

Извините
Спасибо за схему.
Но вопрос - а точно ли потенциометр BOOST (тот что SHO) не на землю идет? а то усиление первого каскада 1 получается.
Извините

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Post by Greenmachine »

Nice job Saruman. This was pretty interesting in every way. :applause:
"[Y]ou want sketchy, dude? I breadboard on a door." -- RnFR, 2011
"This amp is freakin loud, like crazy, I'm going to kill pets loud." -- mich, 2011

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Saruman
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Post by Saruman »

TONYBOOM Да, вы правы. Моя ошибка. С22К идёт не на затвор, а на землю. И бустер стоит после основной схемы (ещё уточню).

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Post by Chewbacca »

I just built the thing on Vero.
Most of it works pretty well. The Gain and the Boost pots are not very responsive and I am still fighting some noise from the Voltage doubler.
But my main question is: are you sure the booster is in front of the main circuit and not behind it as in the Box of Rock?
Also: Are you sure the Boost pot goes back to the input and not to ground as in the SHO?
As it is, the Boost does not provide a lot of boost, the Pot does not respond well and the booster does not make much sense in front of the main circuit as it is advertised in the Bogner manual as a Volume boost and in front it would make a gain boost.
Thanks

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Manfred
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Post by Manfred »

Chewbacca wrote:I just built the thing on Vero.
Most of it works pretty well. The Gain and the Boost pots are not very responsive and I am still fighting some noise from the Voltage doubler.
But my main question is: are you sure the booster is in front of the main circuit and not behind it as in the Box of Rock?
Also: Are you sure the Boost pot goes back to the input and not to ground as in the SHO?
As it is, the Boost does not provide a lot of boost, the Pot does not respond well and the booster does not make much sense in front of the main circuit as it is advertised in the Bogner manual as a Volume boost and in front it would make a gain boost.
Thanks
I think you are right.

IMO, it probably might be that the boost circuit of the La Grange is as shown in the schematic.
BOR_Style_Boost.png
BOR_boost.jpg
BOR_boost.jpg (7.69 KiB) Viewed 3377 times

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Chewbacca
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Post by Chewbacca »

That's it. I connected Pins 1+2 of the Boost pot to ground. Pin 3 connects to the 4u7. This works exactly as one would expect. 4u7 and the C22K pot are now in parallel to the 5K1. This is not exactly like it works in the SHO but close enough to make the booster act like an SHO without the crackle.

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Post by FeVeR2112 »

Is the first schem correct then or should it get updated?

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Post by Chewbacca »

FeVeR2112 wrote:Is the first schem correct then or should it get updated?
The top schem in Manfred's post works for me.
Just make sure to connect the RevLog pot in a way that you get the best range. For me this is Pins 1+2 to ground and 3 to the 4uF. With pin 1 being the right pin looking at the back side of the pot.
I am not sure if that's what's in the original pedal. It is hard to tell from the pictures.
Maybe Saruman can take another close look at his unit.

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Manfred
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Post by Manfred »

I redraw the schematic form above, the including boost stage changings,
I would ask you to recheck it.
BLG.JPG

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Post by Chewbacca »

I still think the boost should go to the back end of this. It works as a gain boost in front but it still works better as a volume boost in the back.
Also: what is the purpose of the 33uf and 100nf in parallel right before the COT part? That just makes it 33.1uF and that does not make much of a difference soundwise.
I am also still not satisfied with the way the Gain pot works. Something does not seem right about this.
Has anybody else actually built this clone?

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Post by Manfred »

lso: what is the purpose of the 33uf and 100nf in parallel right before the COT part?
The 33uF capacitor is an elektrolyte type.
The pulse response of an elektolyte capacitor is slow for higher frequencies caused by the chemical charge reversal delay in the elektrolyte.
The pulse response will be performed faster when the 100nF foil capacitor is wired in parallel.
I am also still not satisfied with the way the Gain pot works.
Omite the 2M2 resistor and exchange the positions of the 10k Resistor and the (33uf + 100nF) capacitor combination,
so an voltage divider can found easier.

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