Friedman BE-OD Pedal  [traced]

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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby bajaman » 25 Jun 2017, 21:34

I hope bugg doesn't mind me sharing this picture from his site :)
thermionic distortion.jpg
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bugg (25 Jun 2017, 23:39)
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby bugg » 25 Jun 2017, 23:50

jalmonsalmon wrote:
bugg wrote:The most recent schematic (as well as the layout/build info) is available at the bottom of this page:
http://www.buggfx.com/product/thermionic-distortion-pcb/

Checking the build doc and really no way to tell what components go where since the schematic/BOM only has values and PCB has RefDes
:hmmm:


Nice catch on the schematic, I hadn't noticed that the RefDes weren't drawn. However, as Bajaman pointed out, the PCB has all of the component values printed directly onto it. This makes assembly much faster and means that you can assemble a PCB with no need for any documentation... If you find the PCB behind your desk in 5 years and have no idea what it is, no problem, you can still build it. :D

What I typically do is print out a list that shows the quantity of each component value required, then just run down the list grabbing that quantity installing them in the board as I go. No need to look back and forth cross referencing the RefDes, I know that I need to install 5 10K resistors (for example), it doesn't matter which 10K resistor goes where on the board. (unlike installing by RefDes, where you have to specifically hunt down a single RefDes despite the fact that there are several other places on the board it could go)

The build docs contain the layout referencing all of the RefDes for troubleshooting if needed, I'll get the schematic updated and reuploaded shortly.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby jalmonsalmon » 26 Jun 2017, 02:54

:thumbsup
Awesome!
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby rmroza » 27 Jun 2017, 14:57

Ok, since I built up 2 based on the Vero and the one installed in a pedal was not working, I decided to work outside the box on the second one and if able to get running, go back to the one in the enclosure.

In short, I got the second one to work and the tone seems to be there, but it hums obnoxiously loud!

i have the LED negative leg, board (-) ground, and input and output grounds all going to V- coming in from the power adapter. Is that correct? I may be having a ground loop issue. What to do with the input and output ground?!?

I'll look at it tonight after work as I ran out of time yesterday evening. Again, if I can get it working, I'll A-B it soon. If not, there may be a problem.

Let me know about the input and output signal grounds.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby bajaman » 27 Jun 2017, 23:42

What to do with the input and output ground?!?

make sure they are both connected to the board ground of course ! You are most unlikely to have any ground loop problems - excessive hum is usually caused by an unconnected input ground connection. Also make sure the enclosure is connected to ground in some way if your are using insulated jack sockets in your build.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby rmroza » 28 Jun 2017, 03:11

Yep, jack grounds, LED ground, and board ground all connected to B-. I also am aware about insulted and uninsulated jacks (in engineering for almost 25 years and was a Sr. Technician at one point in my career climbing the ladder). The build looks very clean, used the appropriate drill bit, ensured no bridging or solder or trace. All wires and cuts and parts accounted for and using the latest Vero board!

The only way to get any sound out of it is with everything hooked up like that, but hums like a bitch and unuseable!

It's not currently in any enclosure. Could that be a problem and no ground cage around it (doubt it, but figured I'd thrown it out there.

I'm at a loss! Two boards and neither work. I've likewise built hundreds of pedals!

I did a video clip. I'll post it shortly for review. In the meantime, I just ordered a PCB from Bugg (when the backorders come in). If need be, I'll unpopulate these boards and put into clean PCBs and fuck it...thou his layout uses 3 of the 072 instead of an 072 and 074 like the vero.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby rmroza » 28 Jun 2017, 17:45

Tried to upload the video last night, but said .MOV format was not accepted and it was late!

I'll have to try and get it off the phone, converted to another format, and uploaded tonight or link to another location.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby rmroza » 28 Jun 2017, 18:00

Ok, downloaded the YouTube app and uploaded it from the phone.

Video clip is here: https://youtu.be/pFbPVuvYxxI
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby J0K3RX » 29 Jun 2017, 00:01

You could try an audio probe to see if you can find where it starts.. Is your power ground also connected to the jack grounds? Shielding on the input and gain pot would be a good idea since they are not board mounted. . could be a combination of no shielding on the input and gain and not boxed up... Sounds like when you pull the cord out of your guitar when running into a high gain amp and hold your thumb right on the tip of the input jack... Bzzzzzzzz
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby orcl2 » 29 Jun 2017, 00:36

How is set the trimmer?
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby rmroza » 29 Jun 2017, 01:30

Not sure on the trimmer, I think in the middle. I actually made it external so it's on a pot and played with all pots, not sure where it is/was at.

Yeah, I'm going to review everything 100% again and ensure no bridges or any abnormalities (IC's in correct position, etc). I'm then going to do two things...

1. use shielding cable from input jack to IN on the board.
2. it occurred to me from when I took my original apart, that for some reason, I believe the gain (I'll look at the photos) had the ground pin going to the chassis or jack ground. Could be a ground loop issue, so I'll look into that also, hopefully tonight, but I'm burning daylight as always and have something personal I need to work on first I'm already running days late on, so need to get it done first. Wish the PCBs were available now. :(
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby bajaman » 29 Jun 2017, 02:15

use shielded cable - put it in a fully enclosed metal enclosure and then try it again :wink:
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby rmroza » 29 Jun 2017, 04:31

Well, I tried grounding different places and also shielded cable on the input...NG (no good)! :(

I messed with the controls, all of them, noise is there nomatter what you do. Of course louder with higher settings and different pots, but always there.

I checked for bridges and what not. Did not see any.

I'm at a loss. Sure. Last thing I can possibly do is put it in a box/cage and see if that does anything. Else, I'm going to forget about it and wait to build up PCB version(s). Too much time invested in 3 pedals built and troubleshooting thus far and don't want to spend more injecting signal and trying to chase it down.

I'll box it and post what the outcome is. Very upsetting and disappointing. I wish the f*cking thing worked so I cuold A-B it, but tone appears to be there and possibly BETTER than the original, but until I can get it working 100% and noise free....unknown.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby J0K3RX » 29 Jun 2017, 05:32

Assuming everything is correct with your vero layout.. no bridges, good components etc.. Outside of all that, what commonalties do both of your builds have that you are testing with? Starting with the input and output jacks, the one with the black cable, the output looks a bit odd in the video.. almost as if the cord is not plugged in all the way? I can see the tip and it appears to be clicked in but still it looks as if it's not pushed all the way into the jack?
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby bajaman » 29 Jun 2017, 10:13

are you running this from a battery or a power supply ?
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby rmroza » 29 Jun 2017, 13:08

It's plugged all the way in, just angle of the camera. The jack is about 1/4" above the flat size. Simple solution, but not an issue.

As you should be able to see in the video, I'm using battery power! Is that a problem and not enough power supplied from a standard 9V batter and why the original pedal does not include a battery clip I believe?!?
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby bajaman » 29 Jun 2017, 13:24

battery power should be fine.
Please post the schematic you are using and the vero layout etc. It looks like there is a mistake somewhere with this particular layout.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby rmroza » 29 Jun 2017, 17:41

Don't have a schematic. I'm using the Vero from Guitar FX Layout - http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2017/05/friedman-be-od.html the schematic was one of the problems. I wanted to audit the vero to schematic, but unsure which was used as "final" also.

I'm going to check out the other I built tonight as have more time after work and see what it does?...same issue? Difference??

Here's the latest Vero they have and I used:

Image

Link: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0SCmklp5s8g/WTolzRFv4AI/AAAAAAAABX8/RwYdIrV0fh0Mdti0G7p8IFc74rf0hXAuACLcB/s1600/Friedman%2BBE.OD.png

p.s. - I didn't have a 14-pin IC for the 074, so just used 16-pin(s) I have and extended down 1 row, but just not connected to anything.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby YellowBoy » 29 Jun 2017, 18:09

Hi Rob. That layout is based off my schematic on page 8 and also matches Bugg's with which he made his PCB's. It's been built by a few people now with no issues other than oscillation at max settings (which pakrat inferred his unboxed original did too). Your video definitely points to either a build problem...or an environmental one. That's some serious 60 cycle hum you got! From what I can tell, you'd need to check every ground point is connected together with your meter...from your guitar, jack cables, through the board to the amp.

After that start looking at the environment. Fluorescent lighting? Proximity to any transformers like the amp itself? It's a high gain circuit and it's not shielded in any way. Does the hum change when you wave the guitar about etc? Jack cables good? Guitar bridge ground wire ok....everything. Basically what I'm saying is; that layout, when built correctly, will work. If it's built correctly and it doesn't work...then look for the problem elsewhere.

A link to some good pics of the front/back and all wiring may help us also.

Good luck
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby rmroza » 29 Jun 2017, 20:35

YellowBoy - Cool! Thanks for the confirmation and direction. Yeah, I'll check it out tonight and look into the things you recommend. I'll check out the second unit I set aside. I'll look for grounds and if need be reflow the solder joints.

Yeah, I tried a different cord last night thinking that might be a problem.

YES, that is all flourescent lights above! Maybe that is influencing without being enclosed? As far as 60-cyclem hum. It's not powered by P/S, but battery, so 60-cycles would have to be by other means (60-cycle of lights or something, but not regulated from AC).

I'll check it out and let you know and again thanks for your and everyone's support. I just don't know what's going on. Never had this problem before! lol
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