Friedman BE-OD Pedal  [traced]

General documentation, gut shot, schematic links, ongoing circuit tracing, deep thoughts ... all about boutique stompboxes.

Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby brejna » 18 Sep 2016, 10:03

I already finished routing, but it shouldn't be problem to make changes to layout if you trace it guys. I'll follow topic regulary..
Thanks for your effort
Brane
brejna
Breadboard Brother
 
Posts: 90
Joined: 25 Nov 2012, 18:14
Has thanked: 60 times
Have thanks: 52 times

Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby MoonWatcher » 18 Sep 2016, 15:05

J0K3RX wrote:I don't doubt that the schematic bmxguitarsbmx created will work but, it's a lot of corrections and guesswork based on a schematic that was wrong to begin with so... ? who knows?? Ya never know, it may sound better than the BE100, give it a try and let us know.

I myself am not satisfied until it's traced and verified.. and I have been meticulously going over the traces and I think it's pretty safe to say there are some inaccuracies.

Whether or not it would sound better than the BE100, it would most likely sound different.

I can't speak for others, but I personally get bummed out when I build something, and it doesn't sound like the original.

I think just some good old patience would really pay off - it's a simple circuit, so if we wait until someone (else) gets one (and posts more pics), an accurate trace should go really fast.
MoonWatcher
Diode Debunker
 
Posts: 717
Joined: 28 Jul 2008, 13:27
Has thanked: 42 times
Have thanks: 62 times

Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby rbird » 18 Sep 2016, 19:45

MoonWatcher wrote:I think just some good old patience would really pay off - it's a simple circuit, so if we wait until someone (else) gets one (and posts more pics), an accurate trace should go really fast.


Just waiting on payday (unless someone beats me to it)..... :)

For this message the author rbird has received thanks:
bmxguitarsbmx (18 Sep 2016, 20:39)
rbird
 
Posts: 2
Joined: 11 Sep 2016, 14:20
Has thanked: 2 times
Have thanks: 1 time

Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby J0K3RX » 19 Sep 2016, 00:10

ok, here's some of the pics that mkedude posted that I have been working on. I brightened them a little so I could see the traces better. Download the originals and brighten them a little if you want to check the traces without my silly ass artwork obstructing the image... The black pcb makes it a real bitch and the fact that there is only really 5 usable pics to work with etc.. If you lighten the photos and really zoom in on them you can see a lot of the traces or at least a faint outline of them. The via holes are tricky.. On the smd side you don't see a lot of them but on the opposite side you can pretty well see all of them so if you see one on the through hole/cap side of the board then there has to be a matching one on the smd side. Some of them come through under the TL072's or under stickers so you have to compare both sides really well... I'm still trying to piece it together so you may find some stuff that I missed. Still missing a lot of the grounds Should be able to put together a fairly accurate schematic with what we have so far, throw in a little educated guesswork and Shazam!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/adl2ow5whhue ... -J2ga?dl=0

For this message the author J0K3RX has received thanks:
bmxguitarsbmx (19 Sep 2016, 03:39)
User avatar
J0K3RX
Degoop Doctor
 
Posts: 929
Joined: 29 Jun 2011, 02:25
Location: US Florida
Has thanked: 266 times
Have thanks: 420 times

Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby J0K3RX » 19 Sep 2016, 00:46

The first pic doesn't have any of my tracing lines on it, I just lightened it to see the very faint traces down by the status LED... Zoom in and you can see them.
User avatar
J0K3RX
Degoop Doctor
 
Posts: 929
Joined: 29 Jun 2011, 02:25
Location: US Florida
Has thanked: 266 times
Have thanks: 420 times

Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby bmxguitarsbmx » 19 Sep 2016, 03:30

JOK3RX,
Do you have the part numbers for your diptrace schematic?

I could syncronize my part numbers with yours, and that may help us check for errors.

Thanks for your work :)
bmxguitarsbmx
 
Posts: 47
Joined: 25 Mar 2010, 22:15
Has thanked: 83 times
Have thanks: 27 times

Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby J0K3RX » 19 Sep 2016, 04:30

bmxguitarsbmx wrote:JOK3RX,
Do you have the part numbers for your diptrace schematic?

I could syncronize my part numbers with yours, and that may help us check for errors.

Thanks for your work :)



No, unfortunately the guy that sent me the schematic only used the part values.. If you use my numbering schema it will be all jacked up. I just updated the pics just now so you might want to download them again... I had some issues with the vref that I think I corrected. :hmmm:

For this message the author J0K3RX has received thanks:
bmxguitarsbmx (19 Sep 2016, 05:41)
User avatar
J0K3RX
Degoop Doctor
 
Posts: 929
Joined: 29 Jun 2011, 02:25
Location: US Florida
Has thanked: 266 times
Have thanks: 420 times

Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby psychodave » 22 Sep 2016, 18:47

I own this pedal and really like it, but I wish it had a mid pot. Can anyone point me in the right direction to where I can add mids ?
psychodave
 
Posts: 2
Joined: 22 Sep 2016, 18:44
Has thanked: 0 time
Have thanks: 5 times

Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby J0K3RX » 22 Sep 2016, 20:34

psychodave wrote:I own this pedal and really like it, but I wish it had a mid pot. Can anyone point me in the right direction to where I can add mids ?


Well hello there psychodave!

Sure... Just open yours up, get some more good pics of the guts and upload them so we can finish tracing this damn thing :wink: It would also be helpful if you could verify traces/connections with a meter if needed but, I would settle for just some more good gut shots... After that we can have a crack at that mid control you want. Do we have a deal? :twisted:

~ Jim
User avatar
J0K3RX
Degoop Doctor
 
Posts: 929
Joined: 29 Jun 2011, 02:25
Location: US Florida
Has thanked: 266 times
Have thanks: 420 times

Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby psychodave » 24 Sep 2016, 03:31

The 3 op amps are all TL072. The mustard colored cap is 120. The standing blue and 2 black caps from top left clockwise are 22uf, 47uf and 22uf.

Looks like a design flaw with the volume pot. A trace is cut the side without the pots facing you. Center or right lugs. Notice the added side on the volume on the pot side.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

For this message the author psychodave has received thanks: 5
287m (24 Sep 2016, 11:38), Intripped (01 Oct 2016, 13:24), J0K3RX (24 Sep 2016, 12:00), modman (03 Oct 2016, 20:24), MoonWatcher (24 Sep 2016, 13:23)
psychodave
 
Posts: 2
Joined: 22 Sep 2016, 18:44
Has thanked: 0 time
Have thanks: 5 times

Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby Groovenut » 24 Sep 2016, 04:39

The connector from the pot leg to the pot casing is probably ground and it's so the enclosure is shielded.
User avatar
Groovenut
Resistor Ronker
 
Posts: 275
Joined: 07 Jan 2011, 17:31
Has thanked: 54 times
Have thanks: 101 times

Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby wake01 » 01 Oct 2016, 09:16

I breadboarded bmxguitarsbmx's schematic to see how it came up. All the controls functioned more or less as expected apart from the bass control which did nothing audible. Replacing the pair of 33k resistors in his schematic with the unit's 3k3 values yielded a pretty useful control. The overall tone is pretty middley but that's kinda the Marshall thing. It's a good starting point for experimentation I reckon. Great work from the guys at FSB once again!

For this message the author wake01 has received thanks:
bmxguitarsbmx (01 Oct 2016, 22:53)
wake01
 
Posts: 19
Joined: 19 May 2008, 12:09
Has thanked: 2 times
Have thanks: 12 times

Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby J0K3RX » 01 Oct 2016, 20:58

psychodave wrote:The 3 op amps are all TL072. The mustard colored cap is 120. The standing blue and 2 black caps from top left clockwise are 22uf, 47uf and 22uf.

Looks like a design flaw with the volume pot. A trace is cut the side without the pots facing you. Center or right lugs. Notice the added side on the volume on the pot side.



Yeah, Groovenut already said it.. The piece of bus wire on volume pot from lug 1 to the casing is to ground the enclosure.

Not sure about the cut trace you are referring to?
This kinda looks like an xacto blade scrape.

If they cut the ground trace on the board connecting to lug 1 on the volume pot then I am not sure why they went and soldered the bus wire from lug 1 to the pot casing?

The pictures helped verify some stuff from the frist batch of pictures that were posted but still need some verification on some stuff. Would be nice if somebody who owns the pedal could tie all of the ground points together... shouldn't be hard, just put one probe from your meter on a known ground like the ground on the power connector and leave it there.. then use the other probe to hit all of the points on the board, use the audible continuity check and the ones that make a beep sound are ground... If you do be sure to get the via's as well :wink:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

For this message the author J0K3RX has received thanks:
modman (03 Oct 2016, 20:24)
User avatar
J0K3RX
Degoop Doctor
 
Posts: 929
Joined: 29 Jun 2011, 02:25
Location: US Florida
Has thanked: 266 times
Have thanks: 420 times

Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby bmxguitarsbmx » 01 Oct 2016, 22:53

wake01 wrote:I breadboarded bmxguitarsbmx's schematic to see how it came up. All the controls functioned more or less as expected apart from the bass control which did nothing audible. Replacing the pair of 33k resistors in his schematic with the unit's 3k3 values yielded a pretty useful control. The overall tone is pretty middley but that's kinda the Marshall thing. It's a good starting point for experimentation I reckon. Great work from the guys at FSB once again!


Thanks for your efforts wake01. Very interesting. I calculated a midrange boost at 3.3k... That's why I swapped the values. Does it work on the bass region at 3.3k though?

Glad I don't have to apologize too hard for leading you astray. The presence control is definitely wrong, I'm pretty lost to what it actually is.

the 22k resistor before the last clipping might want to be smaller, if you feel like trying a 2.2k.

For this message the author bmxguitarsbmx has received thanks:
modman (03 Oct 2016, 20:23)
bmxguitarsbmx
 
Posts: 47
Joined: 25 Mar 2010, 22:15
Has thanked: 83 times
Have thanks: 27 times

Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby wake01 » 04 Oct 2016, 07:22

I did a lot of work on this the last couple of days and have some corrections for bmxguitarsbmx's schematic (can't face drawing it from scratch with my lame skills lol). I'll attach the modified version if you care to make the corrections and post it.

I went over the pics and found a few things. One helpful strategy was that I relabelled all the parts according to the board because layout guys usually number them in order which helps to work out just where some parts might fit in. It helped a lot. I'm not saying it's correct but it does work pretty well now, including the Presence pot. One thing that may not be right is tagging the final pair of LED clippers underneath C14, it works both ways but sounds a bit better imo this way.

cheers

Richie
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

For this message the author wake01 has received thanks: 8
287m (04 Oct 2016, 14:56), blackbunny (04 Oct 2016, 13:53), bmxguitarsbmx (04 Oct 2016, 09:14), Intripped (04 Oct 2016, 13:44), Manfred (04 Oct 2016, 12:01), modman (18 Dec 2016, 13:00), petey the pitbull (04 Oct 2016, 10:24), rcustoms (04 Oct 2016, 13:28)
wake01
 
Posts: 19
Joined: 19 May 2008, 12:09
Has thanked: 2 times
Have thanks: 12 times

Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby destro » 04 Oct 2016, 15:30

c3 is .01

For this message the author destro has received thanks:
bmxguitarsbmx (05 Oct 2016, 05:15)
User avatar
destro
Breadboard Brother
 
Posts: 114
Joined: 06 Oct 2007, 15:24
Location: Kentucky
Has thanked: 8 times
Have thanks: 32 times

Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal  [traced]

Postby bmxguitarsbmx » 05 Oct 2016, 05:15

Sync'd my scheme with Richie's part numbers. Much appreciated and cool to hear you have proto'd it. From here it might be useful to just get a list of part numbers and values that are missing. Just to get an idea of how far off we are. Quite a few Power supply caps, and likely some caps to drop the dc gain of a few of those stages.

3.3k for the "bass" control still seems a little more like a mid boost. 22k each sims out to around 100Hz. Can't for the life of me find these parts on the board though. Part numbers above 900 are ?'s. Clipping after IC2B is probably the most interesting thing.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

For this message the author bmxguitarsbmx has received thanks: 5
ilshat (26 Jan 2017, 00:00), Manfred (05 Oct 2016, 18:22), modman (18 Dec 2016, 13:01), ThiagoFaraday (28 Dec 2016, 20:08), wake01 (05 Oct 2016, 06:43)
bmxguitarsbmx
 
Posts: 47
Joined: 25 Mar 2010, 22:15
Has thanked: 83 times
Have thanks: 27 times

Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby wake01 » 05 Oct 2016, 06:21

destro wrote:c3 is .01

You're quite correct!
wake01
 
Posts: 19
Joined: 19 May 2008, 12:09
Has thanked: 2 times
Have thanks: 12 times

Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby wake01 » 05 Oct 2016, 06:29

bmxguitarsbmx wrote:Sync'd my scheme with Richie's part numbers. Much appreciated and cool to hear you have proto'd it. From here it might be useful to just get a list of part numbers and values that are missing. Just to get an idea of how far off we are. Quite a few Power supply caps, and likely some caps to drop the dc gain of a few of those stages.

3.3k for the "bass" control still seems a little more like a mid boost. 22k each sims out to around 100Hz. Can't for the life of me find these parts on the board though. Part numbers above 900 are ?'s. Clipping after IC2B is probably the most interesting thing.


Thanks for the redraw. When I did the part number listing thing there were a few part numbers I couldn't find on the pics of the board. Don't know if they were left out but it seemed unlikely. The ones I couldn't find were R6, R16, R17, C5, C6, C7 and C10. R16-R17 would fall around the gain trim/presence pot area...

Also the bass control is odd, it changes from an essentially flat response to a mid peak as the schematic would suggest and you're right the mid peak is kinda high. Couldn't see the relevant resistors in the twin-T network though so it's just based on the previous schematic. With 33k there it didn't do much audibly. Might try some other values.
Last edited by wake01 on 05 Oct 2016, 06:42, edited 1 time in total.
wake01
 
Posts: 19
Joined: 19 May 2008, 12:09
Has thanked: 2 times
Have thanks: 12 times

Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby wake01 » 05 Oct 2016, 06:41

bmxguitarsbmx wrote:Sync'd my scheme with Richie's part numbers. Much appreciated and cool to hear you have proto'd it. From here it might be useful to just get a list of part numbers and values that are missing. Just to get an idea of how far off we are. Quite a few Power supply caps, and likely some caps to drop the dc gain of a few of those stages.

A couple of minor corrections, your C5 should be C9 and there isn't a 120pF (your C10) around IC2B, I looked hard on the board and didn't use one in the proto.

For this message the author wake01 has received thanks:
modman (18 Dec 2016, 13:01)
wake01
 
Posts: 19
Joined: 19 May 2008, 12:09
Has thanked: 2 times
Have thanks: 12 times

PreviousNext

Return to Boutique Stompboxes dissected...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests