Friedman BE-OD Pedal  [traced]

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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby HamishR » 19 Aug 2017, 10:42

I just built one of these with one of Buggs' PCB - it was a lot easier than building it on Vero! It works perfectly and was a breeze to build. Thanks Buggs!

I did use a 470p instead of the 120p, but forgot to test it at full gain yet. It has all the gain I need at noon! I've been playing it with a Strat and a Homebrew Tele and it sounds pretty amazing. Well it sounds just like my vero version but it's more compact which is nice. I played it first with the stock TL072s and with those it's a little harsh in the high end. Some guys like that but I don't. So I swapped them out for NE5532s and while the sound isn't radically different it is definitely smoother and rounder - I like it. I have a healthy scepticism of the benefits of op-amp swapping but can actually really hear it this time. I seem to like the NE5532 in every pedal I've swapped out the TL072 for it.

So it's a great dirt pedal but I'm not sure if I like it any better than the Rockett Dude I got recently. I'm not a metal player and for me the two pedals cover similar ground but the Dude is more touch responsive. Now THAT would be a great pedal to build. I looked inside and it's like a little SMD city! Way too hard for me to trace.

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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby andlord » 19 Aug 2017, 17:24

HamishR wrote:I played it first with the stock TL072s and with those it's a little harsh in the high end. Some guys like that but I don't. So I swapped them out for NE5532s and while the sound isn't radically different it is definitely smoother and rounder - I like it. I have a healthy scepticism of the benefits of op-amp swapping but can actually really hear it this time. I seem to like the NE5532 in every pedal I've swapped out the TL072 for it.


This sounds promesing. Have my second build loaded with ne5532 chips almost done. Next week I'll A/B both variants. Kind of hope for the ne5532 to sound better. I have a theory on op amps and sound charackteristics and i hope this build wond wreck it ;)
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby bmxguitarsbmx » 19 Aug 2017, 19:11

andlord wrote:.... Kind of hope for the ne5532 to sound better. I have a theory on op amps and sound charackteristics and i hope this build wond wreck it ;)


You are pre-loading yourself for confirmation bias ;)

I tried tlo72, lf353,tlc2272cp, ka4558. The tlo72 was the best, lf353 good, tlc2272cp was the worst and I would even say it sounds bad.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby bajaman » 19 Aug 2017, 23:23

Why not go the whole hog - OPA2604, LM4562, OPA2134 etc :roll:
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby jalmonsalmon » 20 Aug 2017, 02:17

bajaman wrote:Why not go the whole hog - OPA2604, LM4562, OPA2134 etc :roll:


And in a band situation... you would never really notice any differences in opamps imo

As FZ use to say...
Shut up n play yer guitar! :mrgreen:

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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby J0K3RX » 20 Aug 2017, 04:11

JRC4580 might be worth a try, otherwise I would stick with the TL072.. The 4580 seems to have a fat sound with more low end.

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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby bmxguitarsbmx » 20 Aug 2017, 06:04

jalmonsalmon wrote:
bajaman wrote:Why not go the whole hog - OPA2604, LM4562, OPA2134 etc :roll:


And in a band situation... you would never really notice any differences in opamps imo

As FZ use to say...
Shut up n play yer guitar! :mrgreen:


I respectfully disagree with this philosophy. If you are inclined to strive for every last bit of tone possible, I am inclined to buy a pedal from you. (whoever you may be ;) )
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby HamishR » 20 Aug 2017, 09:09

The whole reason I say I have a healthy scepticism re the differences op-amps can make is because in previous builds I have tried many different op-amps, from the JRC4558 to TL072, TL082, TL062, TL272CP, OP275GP, OPA2134PA, and probably some others I can't remember. To be frank I rarely hear a difference so have stuck with the TL072 or OP275GP, because I have read that they are good chips.

I only tried the NE5532 because lVlark at Guitar FX layouts said it was a good one to try. So I tried one in a pedal of mine that I am very familiar with which I normally use a TL072 in and was surprised that yes, I could hear a difference. Wow. The difference is small but worthwhile going to the trouble of swapping a chip for. In the OD-BE there are 3 chips, so maybe the differences are magnified? I don't know. But I definitely hear enough of a difference to make it very worthwhile for me. The difference is difficult to describe, but I would say that the highs are less harsh/confused. Maybe the chips attenuates the highs a little? Again, I don't know, but the highs sound smoother and more connected to the note to me. The midrange is a little fuller which is a good thing because to me the TL072 version lacks a little there. Maybe it's just that the highs are soother. These differences are something I heard in the original pedal I tried the NE5532 in, so seem to be consistent with the chip. I know that everyone hears things differently, so what sounds different or better to me may not to you.

I only posted my "findings" in the hope that maybe someone may enjoy the differences I did. If you don't hear it, no biggy, but that doesn't mean I can't hear it. If you socket the ICs like I do then it's easy to swap and compare. Indeed knock yourself out, go the whole hog and try as many chips as you like. Hey, I intend to try the ZTX951 transistor as diode thing. Why not? Isn't this why we build our own pedals? If I was only ever going to build a pedal dead stock I would simply buy it. The only point in me building pedals is to try something different, to try and make the pedal better for me. I can't see why anyone would poo-poo the chance to experiment here!

Maybe before you blank the comment, try it for yourself so that you actually KNOW what will happen. My initial thought was that a chip swap would make no difference, but how hard is it to try? And for me it turned out to be a good thing.

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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby bajaman » 20 Aug 2017, 10:12

sorry :oops:
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby andlord » 20 Aug 2017, 11:31

After a short A/B session I'm confident to say that the NE5532 sounds really close to the TL072. A bit different on the bottom end but similar enough. Gonna keep the chips where they are right now and test again later. Had to make a break because my son has to sleep now :D
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby Willypp » 20 Aug 2017, 11:49

I've just built this on Bugg's pcb and while it sounds great, it's pretty noisy. Sticking a klon buffer in front has made it much quieter. Any other suggestions for bringing the noise floor down? Someone said something about changing a cap to 2n2...

Oh yeah, I'm only getting one pair of the LEDs lighting up.

I'm going to do a two channel version for volume and gain, with another footswitch for changing the tight pot.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby andlord » 20 Aug 2017, 12:26

Willypp wrote:Someone said something about changing a cap to 2n2...


Try increasing the 120pF cap. I have 470pF in there and it is much quieter.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby HamishR » 20 Aug 2017, 17:34

Haha no worries Bajaman! Can't be mad at a Kiwi.

FWIW I used a 470pF as someone else suggested instead of the 120pF and I tested it with gain on full. No oscillation or anything. But I do have the internal trimmer turned right down. This thing has plenty of gain.

See this is why I reckon it's good to try these things - andlord finds the bottom end a bit different - in mine the top end sounds different. So many variables of course - guitar, amp, other pedals, and we really do all hear things differently.

Anyway I am super impressed with Buggs' PCB. I don't use PCBs very often - I'm usually building amps on tagboard or turretboard, or pedals on vero. This PCB has been a piece of cake to build a pedal with. I bought two so that I could build one more or less stock and one using Bajaman's suggestions.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby Jan1966 » 20 Aug 2017, 17:49

Bit confused
This is a great pedal for sure. I have built it and it from Buggs pcb and it works perfectly. I have bought the original pedal and it is great. However the high gain distortion can be achieved with with simpler circuits.
For instance Dead Astronauts spitfire with the schematic readily available. I have built this and it sounds awesome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ1y8gikPqQ
Just my thoughts on this.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby Optical » 21 Aug 2017, 04:17

Just got mine going on the thermonic distortion PCB. Built stock and it works great.
A little oscillation but mine is not in an enclosure yet. The 120pF feedback cap is currently 150pF, will try 470pF and swapping some opamps around next to see what happens to the tone. The noise floor on mine is also high which id like to improve - If the 470pF cap isnt a significant improvement I might try inserting a peavey noise gate like the VH4 pedal has.
Love the tone though, really great.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby Willypp » 21 Aug 2017, 11:43

I removed and socketed the 120p and played around until I was happy. I went up through the pf values to 4n7, stuck a 47n in for poops and giggles, and ended up going with a 1n5. Much happier, seems like a good compromise.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby bool » 21 Aug 2017, 11:53

Perhaps the original value isn't 120p but 1200p (1.2n)..
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby bajaman » 21 Aug 2017, 12:38

perhaps bool is right - my simulations show that the 4KHz peak in response is reduced nearly 15dB as a consequence of increasing the 120p to 1200p or 1.2n :wink:
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby Intripped » 21 Aug 2017, 13:03

C12 could be a 1n capacitor,
as noted by Pakrat in his post:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27775&start=80#p264115

C12: 12pf MLCC? (Marked "CDM 102 +/-5%")


...even if, in the following post he says:

Correction, C12 is indeed 120pf silver mica. Sorry about that.

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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby Groovenut » 21 Aug 2017, 20:09

Intripped wrote:C12 could be a 1n capacitor,
as noted by Pakrat in his post:
http://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic ... 80#p264115

C12: 12pf MLCC? (Marked "CDM 102 +/-5%")


...even if, in the following post he says:

Correction, C12 is indeed 120pf silver mica. Sorry about that.

Here's a clear shot of C12 and it's value
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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