Friedman BE-OD Pedal  [traced]

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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby guiltyspark » 16 Sep 2017, 06:53

Jan1966 wrote:
FWIW I like to do some chip swapping. I don't do that stupid chip stacking, I just swap known good sounding dual op amps. With some circuits, like heavily modded/gained out TS808's, I hear a lot of difference with different chips. I play palm muted chunky Metal/Punk, and with that style the differences are apparent. Single note lead stuff or clean picking often sounds the same, I like to hit some gainy big chords so that there's some harmonic information to help make a judgement. When playing with a heavy palm mute and a lot of gain when A/B-ing chips, I hear differences in the tightness, amount of high/mid/low, etc. Try it sometime guys![/quote]

Just sounds like spending more money on something that won't make a difference for most people. Depends on how you play. I play chunk palm muted etc and never had any problems.[/quote]

Hey, if all IC's sound the same to you its all good. I guess you'll save some time/money, but IC's are very cheap from Mouser or Small Bear. The most expensive one I can think of is a Burr-Brown 2134 at a whopping $4 or so. 4558's and TL072's from various manufacturers are under a buck. In some positions/circuits the IC type makes little difference, in others they make a lot IMO.

The same concept and A/B test works with tubes as well. I like to dick around with V1 in high gain amps and a few different sets of whatever power tube is used. The differences in tubes can be subtle in something like a Blackface Twin Reverb, but are there nevertheless. The thing with an old BF Twin is that they sound great with any old tubes. :D

Anyway, off on a tangent there. Experiment if it suits you. This BEOD project presents some interesting opportunities for parts selection and swapping. The original pedal appears to use whatever is cheap and easily available. No disrespect toward Mr. F, just calling it how I see it. It seems the sound is in the CIRCUIT, not MAGIC NOS IC's, germanium, etc. In some pedals, guys obsess over carbon comp vs. metal film resistors, cap type, etc. In the BEOD, the resistors are SMD metal film (?), most of the caps are cheap polyester box film, diodes are generic SMD. Not much opportunity for parts snobbery there, lol. I used one of Bugg's boards and what I would say are superior quality parts. Maybe mine will sound better than the original! :twisted: I will report back if IC changes make an audible difference in this pedal.

Random observation for FSB: It seems odd that that one 120pf cap is a good quality CDE (mica?) while many of the rest are SMD. Were there no SMD 120pf caps? Is that such a critical position in circuit that SMD would not do? Doesn't seem like it.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby bool » 16 Sep 2017, 11:08

....
The original pedal appears to use whatever is cheap and easily available. No disrespect toward Mr. F, just calling it how I see it. It seems the sound is in the CIRCUIT, not MAGIC NOS IC's, germanium, etc. In some pedals, guys obsess over carbon comp vs. metal film resistors, cap type, etc. In the BEOD, the resistors are SMD metal film (?), most of the caps are cheap polyester box film, diodes are generic SMD. Not much opportunity for parts snobbery there, lol.
....
What you described is usually called "good design". Like with the (old) Rockman designs, it was questionable what could be "improved upon" with random part-swapping.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby andlord » 16 Sep 2017, 16:38

A bit ot but apparently Friedman has more stuff to come:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdqC52AXc4s
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby toneman » 17 Sep 2017, 02:57

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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby Branimir » 27 Sep 2017, 16:55

I know I should have never ever clicked this topic! :)

I went through all the pages, and hearing the clips, I'm eager to build the BE OD.

So, the original diodes are BAT54 or BAV99 ?
For start, think I'll try Bajaman's (love the nick btw, and all the variants of it on the topic!) ZTX transistor connected as diode for clipping.
Any non SMT replacement for the Schottky's from the original pedal?

Though I'm not interested anything similar to what the usual youtube clips provide, but I like the note definition of the pedal, seems promising.

OT: anybody seen the video of the Friedman JJ amp presented by Jerry Cantrell? Holy crap, that thing has plenty of gain on tap, and still excellent note definition!
If you scoop, it sounds like poop!
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby Frabbio » 28 Sep 2017, 09:23

Hi everybody, here is my take on the pcb for this project, still unverified.
Single sided pcb with SMD IC's and clipping diodes and pcb mounted pots, should fit in a hammond b enclosure.
Etching and soldering this board can be a little tricky for beginners.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby Jan1966 » 28 Sep 2017, 17:39

Etching PCB now.
Let you know how it turns out.
Thanks
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby Jan1966 » 01 Oct 2017, 18:11

Hi
I built this version and it works perfectly. I didn't have BAV99 so just used a couple of 1n4148 smd that I had in stock. No oscillation either. I would post a photo of my pcb build for reference but have forgotten how to do it.
Thank you.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby Frabbio » 01 Oct 2017, 21:50

I'm also building it, waiting for the diodes and the pots.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby alltrax » 03 Oct 2017, 09:53

J0K3RX wrote:Oh boy, lookie what I stumbled upon today... Friedman Dirty Shirley pedal

http://friedmanamplification.com/friedman-pedals/dirty-shirley-pedal


Link

Hi J0K3RX, any chance to have pictures to trace it ?
Thanks

Edit : I realize I probably misunderstood your post, I guess you didn't have the pedal in your hands, just listened to the clip on youtube.
Anyway, it sounds really great !
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby HamishR » 06 Oct 2017, 03:14

I am so hoping that one of you clever blokes can work out the Dirty Shirley - it sounds fantastic and much more to my taste than the BE-OD.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby rmroza » 07 Oct 2017, 03:38

"A bit ot but apparently Friedman has more stuff to come:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdqC52AXc4s"

I see more peoples take on the board(s) were created. Because I had sooo many problems with this pedal, I just walked away from it for a long while. I may get back into it to figure out wtf was the problem now that the Summer is over and I have some time. I wonder if just upping the one cap as outlined pages ago would help?

I see there is the latest board that states no oscillation but looks like a hybrid as through-hole and SMD! I'm wondering why SMD at all and if you're going to do that, why not just create and EXACT clone, depopulate the pedal, and make a PCB from it and just post it. Then people would purchase the exact components and eliminate all of the osciallation and issues we had??

In regard to the top comment and link....it seems Friedman adds the MIDDLE pot to the Buxom and Shirley. I know Friedman's design are bascially exactly the same with small tweaks and the Middle pot was not included as a single pedal package was already maximized with 6 post, but think seeing how done in these other pedals and incorporating into the BE-100 with a larger enclosure would be a huge win!

My thoughts.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby Frabbio » 07 Oct 2017, 16:43

rmroza wrote:" I wonder if just upping the one cap as outlined pages ago would help?

I see there is the latest board that states no oscillation but looks like a hybrid as through-hole and SMD! I'm wondering why SMD at all and if you're going to do that, why not just create and EXACT clone, depopulate the pedal, and make a PCB from it and just post it. Then people would purchase the exact components and eliminate all of the osciallation and issues we had??

My thoughts.


Upping the cap may reduce or eliminate the oscillation, but it will affect the tonal response of the pedal. Using short and shielded wires, especially on the input and the pots may help.

The layout uses smd IC because I have a lot of them, and SOIC-8 and SOT-23 are pretty easy to solder (i don't even turn on the hot air station for these packages).
I confirm that the layout is free of oscillation even with the gain control and gain trimmer maxed
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby psychepool » 11 Oct 2017, 15:10

Here's mine. I drawn my own layout for 1590A encloser.
Clipping diode is BAV99 but I think nothing difference with 4 x 1N4148.
Change 120pF on feedback cap with 470pF. (for lower noise)
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby alltrax » 11 Oct 2017, 15:45

Impressive !
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby Intripped » 11 Oct 2017, 16:50

Image
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby 287m » 11 Oct 2017, 18:24

psychepool wrote:Here's mine. I drawn my own layout for 1590A encloser.
Clipping diode is BAV99 but I think nothing difference with 4 x 1N4148.
Change 120pF on feedback cap with 470pF. (for lower noise)


finally, another 1590A Wizard
Awesome man!
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby Jan1966 » 11 Oct 2017, 18:49

Very good.
Fine bit of building and perfboard too you maniac.
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby roseblood11 » 12 Oct 2017, 18:18

psychepool wrote:Here's mine. I drawn my own layout for 1590A encloser.
Clipping diode is BAV99 but I think nothing difference with 4 x 1N4148.
Change 120pF on feedback cap with 470pF. (for lower noise)


Great!
Please share the layout... Do you have any problems with noise or oscillation at higher gain settings?
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Re: Friedman BE-OD Pedal

Postby psychepool » 13 Oct 2017, 11:00

Here's the layout. The reason that I didn't show my layout is there's many unpredictable cases.

Friedman BE OD 4.jpg



I've been working on layouts to take into account the size of the parts, but in reality, there will be many challenges.
It is important to choose the size of the parts. I will give you some notes.

1. The film capacitors must have a lead spacing of 5mm.
2. The capacitors in pF should be chosen to be able to be mounted at 2.5mm intervals. (ceramic or monolithic would be good)
3. Electrolytic capacitors height must be 7mm or less.
4. If use the 8 pin / 14 pin exclusive IC socket, you can't install resistors under the IC socket.
So you must always cut out four or seven slots in a row and use them in two rows.
5. Wiring must be connected on the soldering side, not on the parts side.
6. Potentiometers must use 9mm size.
7. To secure the height to which the PCB is inserted and to insulate it, use a box jack as shown below and install as close as possible to the top of the case
S20-1432P01WM.jpg



Drilling guides are slightly different in size from case to case, so you will have to arrange them yourself by yourself.

It is not easy to make it, and it is difficult to make it more reliable than anything else.
You should be careful not to have shorts or disconnection.

Good luck to you.
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