Fulltone - GT 500

General documentation, gut shot, schematic links, ongoing circuit tracing, deep thoughts ... all about boutique stompboxes.
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markm
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Post by markm »

Hi mateys,
I received this from Paul C. this morning as I have always been a fan of the Fat Bastard DIY build of his which is basically a variation of the Orman MiniBooster.
Funny though, he has said he was going to update this build and was going to work with me on it and, never got back in touch with me....
it's been over a year! :roll:
Oh well.
Here's a portion of his PM to me;

The new Fulltone gt500 is using a fat bastard for it's boost side. The only thing different is he changed the 33nf to a 10nf, and he made the 10k gain pot a fixed 10k resistor. He moved the 10k gain pot to the source resistor of the Jfet buffer. I guess that's how he thinks he can say it's a new circuit, but it's really the same thing.
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Post by modman »

:shock:

It only goes to show that DIY shows the way in stompbox development.
Great in fact, no? Does not show much tinkering initiative on Fuller's part, but I'm beginning to understand that being a successful boutiquer depends more on your business skills than the mojo in your boxes.

Nothing new then...

Just want to say that it is a terrific box, FAt Bastard, FAt Boostered? the name fluctuated somewhat I believe. Great job, Paul!
There had been rumours about a second version that died out already some time ago at diy.

But there is something new here that there will be no way of hiding this from the diy public.
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Post by modman »

If legal advice is for free, you need to do with freebee measures?
Everybody's going to start building lycos webpages devoted to that box now. Doesn't he understand is a lost battle. Then again a threatening letter doesn't cost much....

Don't really understand what is going on, as the Fat Boostered schemo is all over the web. I think the big problem is PaulC never to his name on the circuit. Should have done that... hope he chimes in sometime soon...

Hadn't read the now deleted discussion, this one deserves a frame,
thanks Lexx
Yesterday, 08:42 PM
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Fulltone vs. PaulC threads - GT500
Folks,

TGP was contacted with Cease & Desist orders concerning threads about the Fulltone GT500 and issues related to it. We are aware that Mr. Fuller has posted some statement of his side of the issue on his website, and I just had to pull a thread that was discussing that.

This is not TGP's battle, we are not party to this, nor are we involved with the individuals mentioned above. The requested thread was removed promptly before the legal request was made as a courtesy.

I am asking that until this legal issue relating to all this has been concluded that further discussion of these topics is not posted on TGP.

The Gear Page is non-profit and funded entirely by member donations. We have legal consul working for us on this subject, again for free. No donations are funding this.

The Gear Page does not favor any builder or another, nor do we cater to the whims of any companies or individuals. But this needs to be worked out by the parties involved and not online in our forum.

I am asking all members here to not get into this topic and not post anything related to the GT-500, Fulltone, Mr. Fuller, and PaulC for the time being.

If you must post about these topics, be aware that there is a lot of behind the scenes legal issues that have arisen because of this by one party mentioned above, your thread and or post are your thoughts and responsibility alone. We have the right to remove any said threads or posts without warning. We cannot address situations 24/7 because we are not paid or compensated to police every thread and every post. Please work with us and stay off these topics until this is resolved between the two individuals.

This is not a test, and I am not playing games here.
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Post by markm »

modman wrote: There had been rumours about a second version that died out already some time ago at diy.
Yes.
I was working with him on developing the circuit more but, Paul C. kinda lost interest -or- ran out of free time to spend on it and the project never made it past a preliminary layout that had issues and bugs in it. :?
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Post by Goop_buster »

Here is some reading

page1

page2

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Post by modman »

Have to read that, wow, man caches have no mercy of course
----
Here's your readers digest from the other side, shredding the distortion part of the circuit to pieces, just a selection.

I guess this is about the overdrive part of the circuit:

"It (GT-500) has a discrete Inductor-Driven Midrange circuit....never been done in a pedal before."

https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/ ... ic=53598.0
rocket wrote:a mid cut control is very simple with an inductor (and a capacitor) just like a tone control but with the inductor and a capacitor in series rather the only a capacitor.

the centerfrequeny is  1/(2pi*squareroot(LC))
.


It would be better to tell us the name of the manufacturer you are refering to. So the forum can be searched and we know what you are talking about.
Jay Doyle wrote: I know nothing of the circuit myself, but if I had to guess this comes from an old manufacturer's hi-fi EQ. But even if it isn't here is one way to do it:

Using the formula rocket mentioned above, figure out the frequency you want with whatever inductor and cap you have (or just build a damn gyrator and cap combo and save a hell of a lot of space, time and frustration finding the right inductor).

Now set up a transistor stage with 10k on the collector and 10k on the source, bias it to 1/2V+ and take the output from the collector. So you have an inverting transistor amplifier stage, with a gain of 1.

Now, attach one outer lug of a 100k pot directly to the collector, the other outer lug to the emitter. Now attach the inductor/cap combo you had to the wiper, and BINGO!, as you rotate the pot towards the emitter the LC network provides an easier path to ground for those frequencies in it's band and boosts them (just as a cap does when it bypasses an emitter), turn the pot towards the collector and instead of boosting, it cuts those signals as it shunts them to ground.


This circuit is mentioned in the Stompbox Cookbook, I think it was an old Tascam EQ from the 70s.

Anyway, this is one way to do it.

Jay Doyle
R.G. wrote: At the risk of raining on a number of parades, I feel obligated to note that there is nothing special that simply having an inductor present can do to tone that cannot be done with active devices, resistors and capacitors.

Inductors are nothing more than quadrature-shifted capacitors. There is no magic hidden in there, just like having a germanium transistor in your pedal does not make it automatically sound better.

A fair majority of the field of active filters stems from the search for ways to do without inductors; not because the inductors are magic and rare, with unobtainable results. Instead because inductors are heavy, expensive, poorly predictable, large, and ungainly solutions in most cases.

You can get any frequency-response-related results for an inductor by other means.

Inductors in power supplies are another story.
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Post by modman »

Great, Mark,

more reader's digest, letting Paul's voice be heard.


GT-500: A Tough Nut To Crack, But…

Yesterday, 10:41 AM
PaulC
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Quote: The pre-clipping bass circuit (maybe a nod to Paul Cochrane’s design?)

It's more than a nod. I'd put it more like a slap in the face. It looks like it's using a mod I did to the mini booster that was called the Fat Boostered on the GGG site. I called it the Fat Bastard (it was when Austin powers 2 came out that i did it), but GGG changed the name when they posted the schematic.

I just got to check out a GT500, and it's pretty much the same circuit that I gave away years ago. Just change the value of one of the caps in the mix circuit i added to the design. It's even using the values of pots that i added because those were the only things i had laying around when i did it...

The sad thing was I thought it would be lame to sell my modded version of fullers' modded version or ormans' modded version of a circuit out of a text book, so I never made the thing - just gave it to the DIY guys. Bummer

When it came out the Fuller used Orman's mods for his Fat boost he paid him a royalty for back sales. Somehow I don't see that happening with his using my mods...

I guess i should feel good about when people say they're liking the design though. The only thing is now I'm going to have to sit back and see people compare the two pedals.

Live and learn

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Yesterday, 12:46 PM
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Hey Carl, I'm not making any comments on the distortion channel. My comments were about how the first poster said the boost side w/ it's pre bass control reminds him of my Timmy pedal. 6 or 7 years ago I posted a circuit mod to the mini booster circuit on Aron Nelson's site. The circuit was putting a stage in front of the mini booster so I could add a pre bass control to the design.

The circuit took a 33nf cap into a 10k load to set a high freq break point into the mu amp. Then a 25k pot mixed in a 1uf cap along side the 33nf to bring back all the low end. The idea was to take out some low end as the gain came up. That's pretty much what's in the boost side of his pedal along with some other tweaks.

I never sold this, so you can't hear any examples of this design unless you find one of the guys on DIYstompboxes that have built it over the last 6 or so years. This was a free circuit mod that i gave out to those guys because I didn't think it was right to sell my modded version of Jacks' pedal since Fuller did that and got busted for it - he paid a royalty to jack for using his mods. Everybody was tweaking and using that design on that site which is what Jack wanted, but they were not selling them.

My complaint is about having to see people compare his "new" pedal( just the boost part) to mine, and how the bass control makes them close in what they do. I've got to sit back now and watch people say how great it is (and some may be saying it's better than my pedals) while knowing he got that circuit from my work.

I gave it out there for free, and now it's being sold with people putting it up against my stuff.

I guess it's like if you wrote a song for the hell of it, and somebody heard it/recorded it/sold it calling it theirs. Then you have to sit back and watch while people say he wrote a really great song...

But like always - you made a great sounding clip!

Later, PaulC
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Yesterday, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Do you mean this pedal?

NO!! That's a whole different story that's really nothing more 2 guys who used the same name (different pedals) without knowing about the other guy. Like I said - I never produced the pedal for sale because I didn't think it was cool to sell my modded version of Jack's work. Everybody was messing around with those things, and I posted my take on it for the guys to play with. A couple of years later GGG posted the schematic, but I guess he didn't like the name "bastard" so he changed it to "boostered".

Since I didn't sell the thing I was never bothered by the other pedal called that. I just wondered why GGG felt the need to change the name when there are so many others out there that are just down right crude.

It was no big deal at all. If I ever do decide to make the pedal (thinking about it now) I'll run it by Jack first, and find another name.

Later, PaulC
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Yesterday, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Paul did you patent the design? If nothing more, the dates of design of the circuit may constitute prior art on your behalf??
Hey Dewman,

No - I didn't try for a patent. Those things are very hard to get, and can cost up to $10,000. Like I said - I never planned on making it. I gave it away in the spirit of that site. That's what Jack did with the original take on that circuit. On the fuller web site he talks about how that circuit came to him from an employee, and when he found out he knew it wasn't right to take a free net circuit and sell it, so he kicked money back to Jack and then changed the design. In this case it looks like the same thing has happened again. The difference is I'm making something that's kind of close even though it's an opamp circuit. It was admitted that it was wrong to do that to Jack, and he wasn't even selling the things.

The only reason I'm miffed about this is seeing the comments about how that section is like a cross between a fat boost and a timmy. That's a hard thing to take when you know it's because of your work that somebody else is making something that's going up against what you do for a living.

I feel like I've just had my nostrils raped...

Later, PaulC
Heritage amps/tim & timmy pedals
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Post by invictus »

.


uh-oh.. i think somebody scored another credential for the "most hated booteeker" thread... :lol:

sooner or later, i suspect webster will include two words in his list..

1. Behringer
2. Fuller


synonyms. and we all know what will be the meaning. :thumbsup

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Post by Lexx »

Harmony Central scared also:
Let's nip this one right away!

I am not an attorney or a judge. I have no dog in that disagreement. However, I know for a fact that other sites have had cease & desist orders served on them over this very issue, and I do not want legal action taken against HC. So I do not want any further discussions regarding this topic here. If a builder feels he's been infringed on by another builder, let him sue them. If you have evidence of (or disproving) infringement, contact the builders. THIS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR THOSE DISCUSSIONS - I don't care what proof or counter-proof there is out there - I don't want to get into the middle of someone's legal battles, and I'm not going to do so, and risk getting HC into legal trouble from either side. SO IF I SEE THAT TOPIC MENTIONED AGAIN, I will delete the posts and / or threads.


Fair notice.
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Post by modman »

Where is that post in which Fuller admitted he just wanted to scare off people and would never really sue. There will be a whole lot more cease and desist letters if this is the current trend and website bow their heads. thegearpage is non-profit so should not budge...

We should really complete this schematic and put it up. Which is legal.

What Fuller does btw is not illegal either. PaulC never thought of protecting it, and just putting his name on it would have been enough. The name change at GGG may have been done for other reasons, but the credit to Paul also went out of the window.

Even de Cease and Dessist letters are legal, but ungrounded. Just meant to scare. Did Aron get one?

What he could have done, or anybody with a great own design or mod should do is put it online on a solid website and support diy builds of this circuit. That's the only way to avoid piracy is making sure there nothing to be pirated anymore.

Are we the only place where this circuit can be discussed? Great.
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Post by invictus »

.


... someone must post a notice on every other forum:

"if you want to discuss the Fuller vs PaulC thing, go here :
< freestompboxes url > "


:lol:
:lol:
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Post by madbean »

"Look at meh....I'm Mikey Fuller! I like to make teh pedalz! I can has your dezines? You has meni good ideeaz. I liek lawyurz."

[smilie=new_silly.gif]



And so on...

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Post by modman »

... someone must post a notice on every other forum:

"if you want to discuss the Fuller vs PaulC thing, go here :
< freestompboxes url > "
please don't, we won't get a letter, they would just pull the plug. Just post the whole story on your personal blogs if you have them. Or just sign up a free lycos site explaining the whole story. But please don't refer to this forum for the time being, I'm taking measure to this repect, but takes some more time.

Fuller is just protecting his business in any legitimate way he can. There are other ways, as I explained time and time again. Also, that he has a lawyer is only smart.

zj[/i]
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Post by markm »

modman wrote:
Are we the only place where this circuit can be discussed? Great.
Yes we are!
But, that's good!! :)
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Post by modman »

Yesterday, 08:42 PM
Scott Peterson

Fulltone vs. PaulC threads - GT500
Folks,

TGP was contacted with Cease & Desist orders concerning threads about the Fulltone GT500 and issues related to it. We are aware that Mr. Fuller has posted some statement of his side of the issue on his website, and I just had to pull a thread that was discussing that.
Somebody doesn't know his terminology: it's probably a c&d letter they got, and that's just the grown up equivalent of a kids "Stop that or I'll tell mom" - just more expensive.

A cease-and-desist order is an order from a judge or government ordering a halt to an illegal activity. This prohibition is sometimes done as the outcome of a trial, in which case it is a permanent injunction against the activity, and sometimes done as an emergency measure to prevent possibly irreparable harm, in which case it takes the form of a temporary injunction. An injunction against speech issued before it occurs (e.g. preventing a pending publication) is called prior restraint.

A cease-and-desist letter is a letter demanding that the recipient refrain from a certain behavior or else face legal action.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cease_and_desist
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Post by alnico »

No surprise that it's another derivative design.[smilie=rlp_smilie_178.gif]

Fuller makes a big deal of his "unique" PCB pot mounting on the GT-500 page:
http://fulltone.com/images/pcb%20pot%20shpeal1.jpg
Am I missing something? This is exactly what Colorsound were doing 35+ years ago. :roll:

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Post by Ed G. »

But they SOUND better cause Mike sez so!

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Post by bajaman »

More American hype :roll: :roll: :roll:
bajaman

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Post by guyg »

That's why I just don't like him..
Seeing all the pictures and videos of his expensive cars, motorcycles, vintage guitars and amps that were bought with his lies..

:evil:

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