Analogman - King of Tone  [traced]

General documentation, gut shot, schematic links, ongoing circuit tracing, deep thoughts ... all about boutique stompboxes.

Postby toneman » 13 Oct 2007, 18:57

hey guys,
I, also, would be interested to know if the KOT-V4 is two, two, two MBB's in one box!
From the pics, looks like one MBB could be "on top". (?)
Each MBB would have 4 diodes, right(?)
So, guess the other 4 are on the bottom(?) Along with the 2nd dual OpAmp(?)
So, if there *ARE* 8 diodes, which diodes are actually switched??
Tooooo many Q's, heh :-) :-)
Reading thru the KOT-V4 manual, looks like both "sections" can be made "overdrive".
Just curious.......
BTW, in the MBB, All of the diodes are in the feedback path.
In the DS1, they are output clampers....not the same fuzz.. :-p
Tiny little box with the KOT!! ...probably for minimum enclosure expense :-p
Carefull with that axe, Eugene!! when U take the KOT apart!!
Thanx U all for all your efforts! :-)
afn
T
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Postby markm » 13 Oct 2007, 22:11

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Postby soulsonic » 14 Oct 2007, 00:57

Those pics are nice. See how he does that thing with most of the resistors and diodes standing up to save space? I do that all the time with my layouts, which is why it's nearly impossible for me to draw accurate layouts of my builds with the LayoutCreator program. The first kit I ever built (a Radio Shack Volt/Ohm Meter kit) had the resistors mounted like that, so I've been used to it for a long time. It really saves a ton of space.
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Postby markm » 14 Oct 2007, 01:14

soulsonic wrote:Those pics are nice. See how he does that thing with most of the resistors and diodes standing up to save space? I do that all the time with my layouts, which is why it's nearly impossible for me to draw accurate layouts of my builds with the LayoutCreator program. The first kit I ever built (a Radio Shack Volt/Ohm Meter kit) had the resistors mounted like that, so I've been used to it for a long time. It really saves a ton of space.


I agree it saves space and looks cool but, it uses space less efficiently as well sometimes.
It can be hard to run traces under standing resistors.
It's kind of a catch 22 though and depends on the circuit whether there's an advantage or not.
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Postby toneman » 14 Oct 2007, 04:19

Ahhhh Hah!!!!
looks like the earlier pics were from a much older Rev (?)

THANX! for those gut shots of the REV04, MarkM!!! :-D

Yep, both dual opamps on top..and many many diodes!!!
Looks like 3groups of 4 = 12 diodes (probably 1N914 or equiv).
2 little trimmer pots.......and a partridge in....errr oops, wrong song.... :?
From the JAN04 manual, those are treble trimmer controls.... ;-)

Yes, parts on end... saves HORIZ space.
Girls on Film saves DuranDuran [smilie=fly1.gif]

First there was the Dual Muff....
Now, Ladies and Germs, the Dual MBB in a Box ':!:'
IF it sounds good, play it TWICE LOL!!!!

Thanx again for the new GUTS!!! :-)
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Postby R.G. » 14 Oct 2007, 04:38

markm wrote:I agree it saves space and looks cool but, it uses space less efficiently as well sometimes.
It can be hard to run traces under standing resistors.
It's kind of a catch 22 though and depends on the circuit whether there's an advantage or not.

You're learning, Grasshopper.
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Postby markm » 14 Oct 2007, 14:04

R.G. wrote:
markm wrote:I agree it saves space and looks cool but, it uses space less efficiently as well sometimes.
It can be hard to run traces under standing resistors.
It's kind of a catch 22 though and depends on the circuit whether there's an advantage or not.

You're learning, Grasshopper.


:lol:
Thank you, Master!
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Postby polarbearfx » 14 Oct 2007, 16:59

I built a tonepad layout bluesbreaker a long time back.
still have the pedal, to me its kind of weak.

has low output, gain is nice but could use the ability to have more if you wanted.

Its a tad unnatural sounding.

Now I have played the KOT its nice, I guess I can hear the similarities but its almost as if the KOT addressed the issues I mention above.

What can I mod in my bluesbreaker to improve the low output, give it more useable gain, and make it more TOOB, and lose that unnatural side to it.
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Postby toneman » 14 Oct 2007, 17:21

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Postby polarbearfx » 14 Oct 2007, 17:25

toneman, i read that site before its pretty cool. I am not sure how I can implement anything from their overdrive in my tonepad build.
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Postby burchtone » 16 Oct 2007, 14:31

Markm,

Thanks for posting the photos. My friend prefers I do not post the photos of his pedal's guts, but I can say your photos look very familiar. ;)

Thanks for posting!
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Postby JHS » 16 Oct 2007, 17:05

I see Japanese blue and yellow band diodes on the KOT 's gut shot.
They sound way different compared to 1N4248 or 1N914, not as thin and whimpy. Furthermore a JRC 4580 sounds nothing like a 072.

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Postby bajaman » 16 Oct 2007, 20:45

I see Japanese blue and yellow band diodes on the KOT 's gut shot


anyone know the type number for these??? :wink:
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Postby The Rotagilla » 19 Oct 2007, 14:52

Bump for mystery mojo diode ID.
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Postby toneman » 19 Oct 2007, 17:49

glass diodes are usually just signal diodes (like the 1N914, 1N4148).
power receifier diodes are usually "solid".
schotkey diodes are like power diodes, but are faster switching and have lower V-drop.
Germ diodes are most likely "signal" diodes, but won't have the freq response of a 914.
Germ diodes have V-drop like the schotkeys. There ARE germ power diodes, but they are not usually in a glass envelope.

The biggest difference I found was the symetrical vs asymetrical.
These were in the feedback path, similar to the TubeScreamer(TS).
The "diode-2-gnd" , Clamper, is what I call it, can be upsidedown-rightsideup
single diodes or strings of diodes or strings of different diodes.

So.........play around with different diode combos.
a rotary switch selector seems the easiest way to compare one to the other.
if it sounds good --- it's a keeper!!!
if it sounds good --- play it loud!!
:-)
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Postby celadine » 20 Oct 2007, 01:57

If you plug this page

http://gingadrops.jp/diode.html

into your favorite japanese translator, there are nice pictures of japanese diodes and somewhat useful comments. (depending on the translator)

So, the yellow-banded ones look like 1ss133 ('please in the clipping'), the red/blue band are difficult to see. Possibly the famous tubescreamer blue-band, 1s1588?
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Postby bajaman » 20 Oct 2007, 02:05

I heard from an unknown source that they were 1N1588 types :wink:
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Postby toneman » 20 Oct 2007, 02:43

Hmmmmm.......
maybe it's a different 1N1588 (?)

http://www.microsemi.com/catalog/part.asp?id=1276 :?:

In search of the Holy Moly Diode?
Have some more Spam!!!
nudge nudge :wink: :wink:
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Postby theyear2042 » 24 Oct 2007, 17:04

the way i drew the schem it didnt look like a mbb - when i looked at certain parts upside down and twisted around a bit - it started to look very familiar - im giving stomp boxes a rest for a while - ill prob just lurk around for a few months but thought i should share this one before i do as i dont have any quarms sharing a clone of a commercial pedal - take care and make sure you share it with your friends over at diystomp!

Image

Image

KT66!

edit: should have just listened to JHS in the first place.. ;)
edit2: updated the schematic dated 28-10-07
Last edited by theyear2042 on 28 Oct 2007, 04:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby analogguru » 24 Oct 2007, 18:18

very well done job.... KT66

It´s astonishing how only (good) marketing can make the people really stupid.

Adolf Hi*ler said more than 60 years ago:

"Propaganda is the tool to influence the opinion of the individual in such a way that the single one even doesn´t recognize it....."

Today someone only has to claim to have found the "philosopher´s stone", and people are so stupid to sign in on a waiting list without proofing the claim..... to find out after one or two years and spending a lot of money that the supposed "philosopher´s stone" is only a betrayal and what they get has existed long time before....

congrats..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

analogguru

edit: sorry..... I forgot the very important carbon-comp resistors in the signal path who will create the mojo-sound..... maybe only for the true believer.
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.
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