Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

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Re: Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

Postby flood » 20 Jan 2009, 06:43

soulsonic wrote:
nickthemen wrote:I have the schematics with the right values , maby?? there is a way i can share it with you, there must be !

Be careful! You don't want to get in any trouble over something so small!


+10000!!!!
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Re: Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

Postby modman » 20 Jan 2009, 11:55

flood wrote:
soulsonic wrote:
nickthemen wrote:I have the schematics with the right values , maby?? there is a way i can share it with you, there must be !

Be careful! You don't want to get in any trouble over something so small!

+10000!!!!


Only keyboardpartner could get in trouble if Moeller has the money or the interest to sue, for the rest, stop fantasizing. Just post values if you have them....

That it was online once and he tries to restrict access now only shows a thorough misunderstanding of the internet. But what's new...
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Re: Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

Postby analogguru » 20 Jan 2009, 13:05

Sorry, but there are some inaccuracies I want to correct and some points I have to disagree:
Only keyboardpartner could get in trouble if Moeller has the money or the interest to sue,

That´s wrong - Moeller is not the copyright owner of the file which can be downloaded from there. It can be clearly seen that the whole file with the words, tables, drawings was created by R.G. Keen. Therefore he is the copyright owner and the only one who can sue.
That it was online once ....

The component values in full were never online....
Stephan showed on his homepage the theory behind it and which effect different values will have. A skilled technician maybe could estimate the comonent values from that.
That it was online once and he tries to restrict access now....

That this was online once doesn´t mean that it must be online forever. And if he decides to withdraw it later is his good right - he is still the copyright owner of his homepage and his explanations he made there.

Nobody else is allowed to republish it without permission, even if the copyright owner makes his work available for free for individual use or to gain interest from possible customers.

Therefore when Boss makes a picture of his new pedal, Boss is the copyright owner of the picture. If Boss grants his dealers to use the picture, it is thereby not included, that everybody else is allowed to use this picture too. You can lnik to the picture but you cannot install it on your homepage and act like the picture has been taken by you. For this reason you have (somewhere written between the lines) to sign a contract with photobucket, ebay (and others) that you accept to transfer the copyrights to them when you post pictures there.

....tries to restrict access now only shows a thorough misunderstanding of the internet.

Indeed there seem to be a lot of misunderstandings about that.

(At least by european law) you achieve the copyright when you finish your work. You don´t need to apply somewhere or even make a copyright note. Application only helps you to proof easier that this is your work - there are other ways to do it too. The copyright note does basically the same and additionally it is (only) for the stupid ones who don´t know enough of (copyright) law.
The copyright (only) expires 70 years after the death of the creator from it´s own.

BTW, it is allowed to make copies (in limited small amount) from copyrighted work ON DEMAND (only) for somebody else as long as it is free of charge (except your own costs for the copy, paper).
If you offer copyrighted work on your homepage it is not "on demand", but if your buddy requests you to send him a schematic by e-mail it is "on demand" because he has to ask you first.

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Re: Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

Postby nickthemen » 20 Jan 2009, 13:42

So if someone send me a private massage with a request, i can send them a copy, right?
Or it would be more nice to ask stefan himself.
As long i am not sure i dont send anything boys, i am sorry.
I did not build the ac30sim myself because i didnot like the soundsamples back in 2000, but i think the cirquit is very nice for experiment.
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Re: Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

Postby jupagblkxten » 20 Jan 2009, 14:28

nick-

in a nutshell...

if you signed a non-disclosure agreement you can't send it to anyone, i believe. if you didn't, you're pretty much free to send it to whomever you wish. if it is the original or copyrighted schematic, you cannot post it here. if you have redrawn it, then you're free to upload it at will.

please, anyone feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.
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Re: Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

Postby nickthemen » 20 Jan 2009, 14:51

Thanks! I did sign....
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Re: Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

Postby modman » 20 Jan 2009, 15:08

Copyright is not what is the problem here, it's more the non-disclosure agreement which seems to protect even just retyping the values. When I said 'internet' maybe I should have said 'private and public internet', email and internet.

Make no mistake: copyright owners & laywers should address their letters to admin@freestompboxes.org

But why not drop the whole matter and build a real AC-30?
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Re: Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

Postby borislavgajic » 20 Jan 2009, 15:22

But why not drop the whole matter and build a real AC-30?


:applause: :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup
I agree with modman!!!
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Re: Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

Postby uncleboko » 20 Jan 2009, 15:34

Because the cost of physio after lifting it a few times is prohibitive :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

Postby nickthemen » 20 Jan 2009, 16:24

I wil post the permitted ones anyway as for study its helpfull as building blocks.
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Re: Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

Postby HENK » 20 Jan 2009, 19:39

modman:
The Amp: Roundabout 500,-
The Speakers: Roundabout 650,-...
??????
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Re: Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

Postby scott1568 » 22 Jan 2009, 03:56

KB wrote:Hi

To console myself I built a ROG English Channel, but it doesn't sound like the Stephan Möller AC30Simulator.

Kevin


I built the English Channel too. One thing is for sure, it won't make your Blackface Fender sound like a Vox- not enough mids.

It sounds good through a El-84 based amp though (on the clean to slightly dirt settings), but it can't do the Blizzard of Nails thing-it gets kind of farty. I happen to have a Marshall BB from GGG that I built. I put that in front of the English Channel and it got closer.

So if you have one, you might want to give that a try. But by the time you buy all these things, you can pick up an AC15cc used I guess.
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Re: Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

Postby RnFR » 22 Jan 2009, 04:23

scott1568 wrote:[
I built the English Channel too. One thing is for sure, it won't make your Blackface Fender sound like a Vox- not enough mids.


fooling around with a transistor based ac30 amp circuit, this is what i have also found. at least the top boost channel. haven't tried the regular channel yet. it's only a cap change so i'll do it soon.

maybe that's what all the inductors are for in the Moller design?
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Re: Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

Postby RnFR » 22 Jan 2009, 05:02

just remembered. the ac30 uses inductors in the original design, right?
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Re: Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

Postby soulsonic » 22 Jan 2009, 05:04

RnFR wrote:
scott1568 wrote:[
I built the English Channel too. One thing is for sure, it won't make your Blackface Fender sound like a Vox- not enough mids.


fooling around with a transistor based ac30 amp circuit, this is what i have also found. at least the top boost channel. haven't tried the regular channel yet. it's only a cap change so i'll do it soon.

maybe that's what all the inductors are for in the Moller design?

The inductors are part of the speaker simulation filter.

The AC30 simulator isn't designed as a stompbox. It's designed to be a direct recording unit to take the place of an amp.... like a Line6 POD, but not digital...
If you want to use it as a stompbox distortion, I think you'd need to re-evaluate the entire design.
I know you guys are talking about the English Channel, but I'm just saying this now in case anyone thinks the AC30 Simulator would make a great dirt box... that's not what it's designed for.

Maybe we could start on a new design that uses these concepts but IS designed to use as a AC30-sounding dirt box? :hmmm:
I think it would be a cool idea and not step on Mr. Möller's toes.
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Re: Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

Postby Alex Frias » 22 Jan 2009, 11:39

I think it would be great used in some kind of HiFi amp. If it has enough output to feed a power amp, you can use it as a a preamp with its chacteristic power amp timbre capabilities feeding a HiFi solid state power amp, and give up the speaker simulator stage (leaving it just for direct recording). At the end you can put a nice sound speaker, or two as the real thing, and a nice cabinet.
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Re: Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

Postby omni » 05 Feb 2009, 04:01

Found this bit of info online
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Re: Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

Postby Alex Frias » 05 Feb 2009, 10:37

Great!!!
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Re: Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

Postby KHELSTROM » 19 Aug 2010, 18:04

What are the values in the LCR part of the speaker sim?
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Re: Stephan Möller AC30Simulator

Postby DougH » 19 Aug 2010, 19:29

Re. the sound of the AC30Sim- The original sound clips did not sound that good IMO. Very dry and fizzy. But I think that was probably due to the speaker simulator, which was nothing more than a typical active filter speaker sim arrangement. Maybe through a p.a. or guitar amp it sounds good. Maybe through an impulse response speaker sim it sounds better.

Still, it's a hell of a lot of work for "emulating" a simple tube circuit. It's the typical story as far as that is concerned. By the time you get done messing with something like this you could have easily built a good sounding guitar amp. You can easily do a 10W AC30 with 2 6BM8's, SS rect and "sag" power resistor, 1 12ax7, and a MOSFET for the voltage follower to drive the tone stack. Check out my "Cirrus" amp for this kind of take on the AC15. All you need is the top boost preamp in place of the EF86 preamp. You could easily put a normal channel on it too and use the other half of that 12ax7 for the follower instead of a MOSFET. For ideas on how to do that preamp with the MOSFET check out my "Dragonfly".

My amp stuff is here: http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/DougH/amp/

My advice is if you like a certain amp- get into amp building. It's a lot of fun and there are a lot of hobbyists doing it, just like pedals. Save your money for parts and build that amp you always wanted. You'll get it done faster and be happier with the result than with some solid state "tube emulation".
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