Skreddy - Mayo

General documentation, gut shot, schematic links, ongoing circuit tracing, deep thoughts ... all about boutique stompboxes.
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supergigi
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Post by supergigi »

The new PCB ispired to SpencerPedal version. The SpencerPedal version has a 10nF capacitor (C8 on the original scheme, C11 on the SpencerPedal PCB) in wrong position; the correct position is to ground.

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supergigi
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Post by supergigi »

Partlist

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Last edited by supergigi on 07 Apr 2010, 18:03, edited 2 times in total.

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andymic
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Post by andymic »

Is anybody selling these PCB's?

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Post by SpencerPedals »

Regarding the tonestack cap:

http://gaussmarkov.net/wordpress/galler ... -revision/

"When I looked at Nordic’s changes, I noticed a couple of other improvements myself and Nordic let me add them. For example, the transistors are lined up more neatly. I also decided to hook up C11, which is part of the tone stack, to +9V instead of ground. As you can see, it’s awkward to get a ground connection to C11 given the overall layout. Because capacitors block DC, hooking up a capacitor to any constant voltage amounts to the same thing for the effects on the signal"

The SpencerPedals layout is verified and the tonestack does indeed work just like my other Muffs.

And you should be able to get the Spencer version of the board made up via John Lyons or Madbean if you hunt them down. I'm not guaranteeing that, but it's where I'd go if I were looking to buy one.

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Post by supergigi »

Thank for clarification :thumbsup

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Post by PokeyPete »

Skreddy wrote:
Krinkle wrote:
Krinkle wrote:
Skreddy wrote:Do they have script-logo "F"'s on them? Then the part number, and then a 3-digit date code (I assume)?
I'll check and let you know.
Just checked, they do! Date code is 615 (looks like an S but since you said digits...)
The one I checked a while ago had an hfe of a little over 600 (something like 612)
Can I assume that I will be able to make a pretty good Mayo clone out of this?
Check the rest; they will all vary quite a bit. And see if you can't score more from the same source?...

But no; this won't just make a Mayo clone--you should consider it much more special than that! You can make a proper triangle-knob clone from 1971. For best results, use transistors with gains that don't go below 500 hfe and use all ceramic caps and 1/2 Watt carbon comp resistors according to the classic EH schematic; e.g...

Image

The 500pf caps are really 470pf. The 820R resistor at R5 is really 1k in the original. The .1uf coupling caps should all be rated at 200 volts (or higher) and the tone-stack caps (.004 and .01) should be 1kv for best results.


Mainly I just wanted to thank Skreddy for sharing this schematic. Having someone as BMP savy as Skreddy sharing a schematic and stating how particularly sweet this one is.....well, that's
quite a gift. I don't know why there are not dozens of such schematics floating around. I just see the same version schematic repeated at most of the popular muff sites. This is a treat!!!
While I greatly enjoyed learning about the Mayo, and Pinking a Mayo, and Pinking a BYOC triangle........to me, this schematic is the plum of this thread. This, along with all of the transistor
testing and reporting should enable me to make a very satisfying triangle muff. :D

Thank you very much, Skreddy :applause:

And thank everyone else as well. You have made this a terrific and informative thread. :applause:


I do have one question about the above schematic:

My understanding is that, for the most part, connector one of a pot (such as volume) normally goes toward circuit ground. Such is the case for the sustain pot. Are the tone and volume pots
labeled correctly? (Not having an original muff to compare, I'm just not sure)

PP
“No man is so foolish but he may sometimes give another
good counsel, and no man so wise that he may not easily err
if he takes no other counsel than his own. He that is taught
only by himself has a fool for a master.”
–Hunter S. Thompson

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Skreddy
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Post by Skreddy »

PokeyPete wrote:My understanding is that, for the most part, connector one of a pot (such as volume) normally goes toward circuit ground. Such is the case for the sustain pot. Are the tone and volume pots
labeled correctly? (Not having an original muff to compare, I'm just not sure)
Right; I've always been a bit dyslexic as far as pot wiring goes. Just figure out the right way and make a note of it so you don't have to figure it out again later. :)

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Post by bucksears »

One thing that I've noticed (after building this Mayo work-alike and comparing it to my GGG-tune BMP and Gaussmarkov's Op-Amp BMP), is that the Mayo has a bit of an 'octave-up' effect, most noticeably on single notes. Is that the nature of this circuit, or is it a characteristic of a BMP with really high-gain transistors?

Thanks,
Buck

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Post by patafix »

WTF !!! $1100 for a "merely tweaked" BM !!!
Patafix... so sticky

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Post by pandadandan »

Different pedal.
The Mayo is a tweaked Big Muff while the Mayonnaise is an exact Triangle muff. Exact as in everything is NOS, matching a vintage triangle in every way. In that auction, even the price is matched with an original :lol:

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Post by Seiche »

the knobbies are in line though :blackeye

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Post by culturejam »

I believe the Mayonnaise is the exact copy of one specific Triangle Muff (as they were all over the place in terms of component values). That is, assuming I'm not remembering what I read all wrong.

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Post by Kitrae »

That's what Marc said it was. He only ever made 25 as I recall, so they are very rare. This is the Mayonnaise MK II made within the last year. The last time I saw an original Mayonnaise go for sale it brought a little over $600, comparable to what a real Triangle brings. This price is a bit ...excessive.
Kitrae - Muff junkie
Big Muff Page
http://bigmuffpage.com/
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http://www.bigmuffpage.com/The_Tonebender_Timeline.html

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Post by monkeyxx »

anyone tried IvIark's nice looking vero layout for the mayo? I guess I'll be the first, I'll post about the results. I've got the board populated but have not yet wired the pots or socketed transistors (expecting some experimentation after going through this thread)

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Post by monkeyxx »

OK I've got it built up (don't forget to connect volume lug 3 to the switch AND the right spot on the board) and it sounds great! VERIFIED. you can find IvIark's layout on his blogspot page in a google search.

I tried a few transistors, just what I had on hand, and ended up with Phillips BC550C. They are full sounding and have the most "VROOOOOM" for lack of a better "what a big muff should sound like" word. MPSA18 were OK, higher gain and shreddier but thinner. 2N3904 I did not care for too much, and 2N5088 were decent, but in the end BC550C sounded best to me. I also plan to try some BC183C as recommended earlier in the thread but haven't ordered these yet. Totally happy with the BC550C for now, though. Transistor selection is certainly a factor in making this circuit sound good.

Just as I expected it's middier and less bassy than my USA EH recent model big muff. I like IvIark's three-way midrange switch, it's an improvement over the two-way Skreddy switch. Might incorporate this into future muff builds instead of a midrange knob, just because it's simpler and physically smaller. Sometimes I have a hard time thinking of something to play on a muff but sometimes it's just the right thing. Indeed, Smashing Pumpkins is very well suited to the "Mayo." Other power chord power riffs as well. Or doomy stuff. I used ceramic caps in (almost) all the same places as the Skreddy, and film and electros for the rest. I used a few carbon comps but didn't have all the necessary values so there's metal film resistors in my build as well. I'll have to test it out through a tube amp (using a solid state fender right now due to an amp failure) to get a real impression of what this thing can do. Hats off to Marc Ahlfs for going for a very specific sound, and getting very close to it. Yeah I don't have 2N5133 oh well!!! really curious what this would sound like with those!

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Post by monkeyxx »

PokeyPete wrote:
Skreddy wrote:
Krinkle wrote:
Krinkle wrote:
Skreddy wrote:Do they have script-logo "F"'s on them? Then the part number, and then a 3-digit date code (I assume)?
I'll check and let you know.
Just checked, they do! Date code is 615 (looks like an S but since you said digits...)
The one I checked a while ago had an hfe of a little over 600 (something like 612)
Can I assume that I will be able to make a pretty good Mayo clone out of this?
Check the rest; they will all vary quite a bit. And see if you can't score more from the same source?...

But no; this won't just make a Mayo clone--you should consider it much more special than that! You can make a proper triangle-knob clone from 1971. For best results, use transistors with gains that don't go below 500 hfe and use all ceramic caps and 1/2 Watt carbon comp resistors according to the classic EH schematic; e.g...

Image

The 500pf caps are really 470pf. The 820R resistor at R5 is really 1k in the original. The .1uf coupling caps should all be rated at 200 volts (or higher) and the tone-stack caps (.004 and .01) should be 1kv for best results.


Mainly I just wanted to thank Skreddy for sharing this schematic. Having someone as BMP savy as Skreddy sharing a schematic and stating how particularly sweet this one is.....well, that's
quite a gift. I don't know why there are not dozens of such schematics floating around. I just see the same version schematic repeated at most of the popular muff sites. This is a treat!!!
While I greatly enjoyed learning about the Mayo, and Pinking a Mayo, and Pinking a BYOC triangle........to me, this schematic is the plum of this thread. This, along with all of the transistor
testing and reporting should enable me to make a very satisfying triangle muff. :D

Thank you very much, Skreddy :applause:

And thank everyone else as well. You have made this a terrific and informative thread. :applause:


I do have one question about the above schematic:

My understanding is that, for the most part, connector one of a pot (such as volume) normally goes toward circuit ground. Such is the case for the sustain pot. Are the tone and volume pots
labeled correctly? (Not having an original muff to compare, I'm just not sure)

PP
based on the coolness of this idea here's a stripboard layout I came up with using that post and a layout by Harald Sabro Bostad that I'd used successfully to build a nice sounding and small Ram's Head. Hopefully my (mayonaise??????) comment won't offend anyone. to be clear this is not a skreddy mayonaise layout, it's just skreddy's Triangle clone build idea... there might be some similarities to the Mayonaise since I believe that was an era-correct Triangle clone itself (note that that pedal used the rare and all important 2N5133 transistors)

Image

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Post by Whoismarykelly »

Kitrae wrote:That's what Marc said it was. He only ever made 25 as I recall, so they are very rare. This is the Mayonnaise MK II made within the last year. The last time I saw an original Mayonnaise go for sale it brought a little over $600, comparable to what a real Triangle brings. This price is a bit ...excessive.
I dont believe that was really market value. Mostly because I hit it on a BIN a very short time after it went up ;)

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Post by Kitrae »

"Real market value" is whatever someone is willing to pay, as we all know. I don't think anyone will pay $1100. I have seen quite a few boutique and vintage pedals in the past year relisted over and over again, with price drops each time. Some people have no idea what they can get so they throw a price out there and fish. By the third or fourth listing the BIN or MB is us usually in line. Almost everything I have bought this year was from a relist. The good thing is, most people who put a watch on the original list don't bother again with subsequent relists, so less bidders :wink:
Kitrae - Muff junkie
Big Muff Page
http://bigmuffpage.com/
Tonbender Timeline
http://www.bigmuffpage.com/The_Tonebender_Timeline.html

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Post by monkeyxx »

I've spent a little more time with this thing dialing the tone around... there's really a deep sort of subsonic sounding low end to this thing that I wasn't hearing in the demos...especially at the "flat mids" setting, which I guess is my favorite. The "wall of fuzz" description on the website is on point. got sort of obscured by all the bloozy boyz wanking on youtube

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