Durham Electronics - Sex Drive  [traced]

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Re: Durham Electronics - Sex Drive [ goop-alarm ]

Postby mrhenry » 15 Oct 2009, 17:32

as stated in the above thread, the difficulty is with the goop which is an ULTRA hard potting epoxy of sometime-- NOT soft black goopy crap that alot of pedals use. its been suggested to use a heat-gun and a high power vent or a REALLY hot iron to turn it into a powder that can be brushed away. But the problem is that the goop sticks to the components and the board-- it is poured all over it. sometimes, the epoxy even gets on the switch (ive seen pictures of this, as well as individual units that i have opened up).

this presents a problem when its a good ol blue style 3pdt-- cuz they breakdown :slap: (everybody here knows, or should know that). Durham used to use durable Carling DPDT switches and a buffer on all models except his fuzz (and might have gone back to them).

my advice, if you want a work-a-like: (1) use half of the op-amp as a buffer ( i recommend the klon-style buffer) (2) use a simple tone control like the one you have on the zen drive (with the values tweeked to your taste) and (3) use the other half of the op-amp for the boost. the 'compression' switch well, that is more difficult to say-- my feeling is that it just sounds like it switches between two different sets of diodes or none at all (totally 'clean').

that probably doesn't tell anyone anything they don't already know, but i've been tracking this box for a long time now and, in my opinion, its the best solution besides just buying one, or buying one and ruining it by reversing it.

and, by the way, it is a really great sounding boost (the best one i've ever used)- because the tone really just ads presence and the bass gets slightly 'tighter' and more 'solid'-- not flabby. Soooooo, i would imagine that you can easily get this sound by using the same target frequency roll-off you get by adjusting the resistor/cap network from the feedback loop to Vr (or to ground depending)--- that is, just like a tubescreamer does to keep it from getting the 'Muddy' sound that some people dont like.

as for the op-amp... who cares? i've used a bunch of different ones that sound just fine-- different, but just fine. :D

best of luck,
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Re: Durham Electronics - Sex Drive [ goop-alarm ]

Postby Greg » 16 Oct 2009, 01:13

Most gooped circuits I've come across have epoxy on the them.
It's removable...
The soldering iron trick works well.
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Re: Durham Electronics - Sex Drive [ goop-alarm ]

Postby ansil » 17 Oct 2009, 05:00

something i haven't seen here in goop threads is a trick i saw a man do that built some really radical stuff in hifi. he would sell his amps at tech shows to the Japanese and they would pay him top dollar for it. now the fact that he speaks Japanese makes him giggle at what they said when they left. "ha ha stupid American! now we can make better" loosely translated. so about 2 hours later they come back and are cussing him out in Japanese and they are wanting to know why they can't xray it. why they can't get the goop off and now that they tried the amp doesn't work. he explained politely to them that they bought his amplifier not the design. if they wish to purchase the design its for sale but not at the price he puts in his amplifier.

what he did was put a single layer of epoxy on the board. clear non conductive that is. once the components are out of harms way he takes lamp black and iron ore and epoxy and mixes it up then the board gets a nice liberal coating of it front and back. this epoxy even before it gets iron ore in it is conductive and it has around 400degree melting point so you can use an iron on it. but it ends up turning into a bloody conductive mess that if you aren't careful you will short out your entire circuit board. and having seen the xrays of it, i have to giggle cause its a big white board with wires coming off of it. you can identify pots if you stare long enough. just my two cents didnt' know if anyone had thought of that.

i dont' see many people producing new designs that are real worried about cloning. hell most people i know that have something other than a ts or a lpb1 booster are pretty happy to share what they know.

ed
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Re: Durham Electronics - Sex Drive [ goop-alarm ]

Postby coldcraft » 17 Oct 2009, 15:52

no that's how to goop and not be de-gooped!
Black Dynamite wrote:you need to shut the fuck up when grown folks is talkin.
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Re: Durham Electronics - Sex Drive [ goop-alarm ]

Postby HAR_RJ » 19 Oct 2009, 19:31

Yep, I gave up on this pedal along time ago. Seems not to many people are interested in this one.
Oh well, time to move on.
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Re: Durham Electronics - Sex Drive [ goop-alarm ]

Postby jaydawg » 03 Jun 2010, 00:26

Bump for an interesting pedal. Would be cool to see what's going on inside.
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Re: Durham Electronics - Sex Drive [ goop-alarm ]

Postby Silent Fly » 11 Jun 2010, 08:37

jaydawg wrote:Bump for an interesting pedal. Would be cool to see what's going on inside.


+1
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Re: Durham Electronics - Sex Drive [ goop-alarm ]

Postby jaydawg » 15 Jun 2010, 20:42

Here's why this thing hasn't been de-gooped yet. Look at the bench on the right and notices the West System epoxy. I've been working with that stuff for years and it's as bullet proof as you can get!

Image
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Re: Durham Electronics - Sex Drive [ goop-alarm ]

Postby freq67 » 15 Jun 2010, 21:49

jaydawg wrote:Here's why this thing hasn't been de-gooped yet. Look at the bench on the right and notices the West System epoxy. I've been working with that stuff for years and it's as bullet proof as you can get!

Image



I don't think so.
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Re: Durham Electronics - Sex Drive [ goop-alarm ]

Postby HAR_RJ » 16 Jun 2010, 04:21

jaydawg wrote:Here's why this thing hasn't been de-gooped yet. Look at the bench on the right and notices the West System epoxy. I've been working with that stuff for years and it's as bullet proof as you can get!


So what is the picture on page 2 of this post????????? :oops:
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Re: Durham Electronics - Sex Drive [ goop-alarm ]

Postby jaydawg » 17 Jun 2010, 17:39

HAR_RJ wrote:
jaydawg wrote:Here's why this thing hasn't been de-gooped yet. Look at the bench on the right and notices the West System epoxy. I've been working with that stuff for years and it's as bullet proof as you can get!


So what is the picture on page 2 of this post????????? :oops:


The pic on page two is the back side of the board with the components still covered in goop. Where is the de-gooped picture?



Oh, that's right............there isn't one! :slap:
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Re: Durham Electronics - Sex Drive [ goop-alarm ]

Postby jaydawg » 17 Jun 2010, 17:40

freq67 wrote:
jaydawg wrote:Here's why this thing hasn't been de-gooped yet. Look at the bench on the right and notices the West System epoxy. I've been working with that stuff for years and it's as bullet proof as you can get!

Image



I don't think so.


Could you elaborate? Do you not think he's using west system to goop his pedals? :hmmm:
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Re: Durham Electronics - Sex Drive [ goop-alarm ]

Postby freq67 » 17 Jun 2010, 21:20

jaydawg wrote:
freq67 wrote:
jaydawg wrote:Here's why this thing hasn't been de-gooped yet. Look at the bench on the right and notices the West System epoxy. I've been working with that stuff for years and it's as bullet proof as you can get!

Image



I don't think so.


Could you elaborate? Do you not think he's using west system to goop his pedals? :hmmm:


I was talking about the "bullet proof" comment.....I've been working with epoxies and polyurethanes for 12 years and most if not all are relatively breachable without a lot effort . some are easier than others.
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Re: Durham Electronics - Sex Drive [ goop-alarm ]

Postby jaydawg » 17 Jun 2010, 21:33

Well that's good news!

My main concern was how to de-goop without destroying the circuit/components? Any thoughts? :scratch:
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Re: Durham Electronics - Sex Drive [ goop-alarm ]

Postby Greg » 18 Jun 2010, 00:45

jaydawg wrote:Well that's good news!

My main concern was how to de-goop without destroying the circuit/components? Any thoughts? :scratch:


http://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=351
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Re: Durham Electronics - Sex Drive [ goop-alarm ]

Postby jaydawg » 18 Jun 2010, 01:16

Greg_G wrote:
jaydawg wrote:Well that's good news!

My main concern was how to de-goop without destroying the circuit/components? Any thoughts? :scratch:


http://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=351


Interesting. Al tho both those products are safe for the molded epoxies used in IC's they will both dissolve thermo plastics. Wouldn't that include caps? You might be able to some values measure them in circuit but it seems like you'd destroy more components then you'd be able to identify?

Has anyone here actually de-gooped an epoxied board?
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Re: Durham Electronics - Sex Drive [ goop-alarm ]

Postby Greg » 18 Jun 2010, 01:36

jaydawg wrote:
Greg_G wrote:
jaydawg wrote:Well that's good news!

My main concern was how to de-goop without destroying the circuit/components? Any thoughts? :scratch:


http://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=351


Interesting. Al tho both those products are safe for the molded epoxies used in IC's they will both dissolve thermo plastics. Wouldn't that include caps? You might be able to some values measure them in circuit but it seems like you'd destroy more components then you'd be able to identify?

Has anyone here actually de-gooped an epoxied board?


Seriously ?
There have been dozens de-gooped and revealed on this forum.
:mrgreen:

There is a lot more discussed in the thread I linked to than a couple of chemicals.
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Re: Durham Electronics - Sex Drive [ goop-alarm ]

Postby freq67 » 18 Jun 2010, 02:45

An Iron, a bottle of isoprople alcohol and a small stiff brush.
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Re: Durham Electronics - Sex Drive [ goop-alarm ]

Postby jaydawg » 18 Jun 2010, 11:32

Greg_G wrote:
jaydawg wrote:
Greg_G wrote:
jaydawg wrote:Well that's good news!

My main concern was how to de-goop without destroying the circuit/components? Any thoughts? :scratch:


http://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=351


Interesting. Al tho both those products are safe for the molded epoxies used in IC's they will both dissolve thermo plastics. Wouldn't that include caps? You might be able to some values measure them in circuit but it seems like you'd destroy more components then you'd be able to identify?

Has anyone here actually de-gooped an epoxied board?


Seriously ?
There have been dozens de-gooped and revealed on this forum.
:mrgreen:

There is a lot more discussed in the thread I linked to than a couple of chemicals.


I read the tread and most of the techniques only seemed applicable to softer materials. What I'm saying is I believe the epoxy used on the Sex Drive is of a much higher grade then the stuff used by other pedal builders. But I could be, and often am wrong.

And yes, I've read the de-gooped threads and non of them seem to deal with anything close to what's used on the Sex Drive.
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Re: Durham Electronics - Sex Drive [ goop-alarm ]

Postby Greg » 18 Jun 2010, 12:26

jaydawg wrote:
I read the thread and most of the techniques only seemed applicable to softer materials. What I'm saying is I believe the epoxy used on the Sex Drive is of a much higher grade then the stuff used by other pedal builders. But I could be, and often am wrong.

And yes, I've read the de-gooped threads and non of them seem to deal with anything close to what's used on the Sex Drive.


West Systems Epoxy might be excellent quality, and might have great mechanical properties, but the only concern when it comes to gooping and degooping is the temperature it breaks down at.
I don't see anything to indicate that it's better than, or even as good as the Epoxy most builders use.
They don't have actual Data for Max Temp on their website that I could find, but they do comment that Extended Temp above 230 degrees is considered Damaging Temp. (http://www.epoxyworks.com/23/pdf/04-Heat.pdf)
A lot of builders use something like JB Weld, and JB is a High Temp Epoxy that can handle 500 to 600 degrees F.
JB will go soft and powdery when heat is applied and can be removed pretty easily, so I can't see that West System would be any different, and probably not as good.

AFAIK, there isn't an Epoxy available that will handle higher temps, or that won't break down when exposed to high temp, so I think you're making assumptions about the West Epoxy that aren't right.

Didn't someone already point out a picture of a Durham board with the Epoxy removed anyway ?
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