Toneczar - Openhaus  [traced]

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Re: Toneczar Openhaus [gutshots and schematic]

Postby abfackeln » 21 Nov 2009, 02:44

Got the 2n1306's in today. I'd say these are a dead-nuts match for what's in the Openhaus. Out of the test batch that I got (10 pieces), all have gains of 96-146 (average around 110), and leakages of 0.04-0.08mA. Measurements taken with the Atlas DCA.

Here they are side-by-side with the ones from the Openhaus (Openhaus transistors on the left):

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Re: Toneczar Openhaus [observation+asinine comment]

Postby noelgrassy » 21 Nov 2009, 11:15

How does one clip heat sinks on the tiny nubs the xistors on the left have? With all the hoops
we jump through to get a good sounding xistor the last thing I need is broiling an ancient xistor
with a soldering iron. That's why I'm a slave to the sockets. But I still leave 3X as much lead
compared to Ed's little sheathed nubs. He's probably excelled way beyond the heat-sink stage.
I'll bet his skills are near perfect after 5 or 6 years building these gems by his lonesome.
That's a very admirable trait, dedication to go along with a trainload of creativity. :mrgreen:
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Re: Toneczar Openhaus [gutshots and schematic]

Postby RnFR » 21 Nov 2009, 13:09

flux and a good hot iron. let's you get in and get out quick, and you don't give it time to overheat. no heatsink needed. :wink:
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Re: Toneczar Openhaus [gutshots and schematic]

Postby guiddruid » 21 Nov 2009, 13:17

also avoid lead free solder (the melting point of lead free is significantly higher), and have clean traces & component legs, so the joint is right first time.
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Re: Toneczar Openhaus [gutshots and schematic]

Postby abfackeln » 21 Nov 2009, 13:57

Like RnFR said, a good hot and clean iron. With my crappy Rat Shack iron, I use a new tip for every build (but I did just order one of those Xytronics that RnFR suggested in another thread).
I've never used heat sinks, flux, etc., and never had a problem. But I did have years of soldering practice (building amps) before I ever started working on pedals.
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Re: Toneczar Openhaus [gutshots and schematic]

Postby culturejam » 22 Nov 2009, 19:42

abfackeln wrote:Like RnFR said, a good hot and clean iron. With my crappy Rat Shack iron, I use a new tip for every build (but I did just order one of those Xytronics that RnFR suggested in another thread).

I also use a crappy Rat Shack iron (the 15w/30w switchable model), and I used to go through a tip every four or five pedals. Now I'm getting double the life out of them because I switched from a wet sponge to a stainless steel pot scrubber. Keeps the tip free of flux and doesn't drop the temp when used. It's the best 50-cent upgrade I've ever made.
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Re: Toneczar Openhaus [gutshots and schematic]

Postby tomtom » 22 Nov 2009, 20:41

I've used stainless steel pot but stop using it because it at least reduce by half tip destruction,
I just keep the sponge wet and change it often. Way cheaper.

I've bought a Weber WST station and while expensive (tips too), soldering is much easier, less
heat applied with a smaller tip especially with silver charged lead free solder. I spend a lot of time
finding the right one and still experimenting. the worst part is the blackening of the tip.

I set Temp to 390°Celsius, it seems a bit too much but the solder melt quickly and evenly.
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Re: Toneczar Openhaus [gutshots and schematic]

Postby RnFR » 22 Nov 2009, 20:42

tip tinner is also good. it helps to have some liquid solder and flux on the iron to let the heat easily flow from the iron to the parts. i believe that's basically what tip tinner is, except you can just dunk your tip in it every once in a while to keep it fresh. i just have mine stuck to my station, and it reminds me to tin the tip every time when i turn the iron off as well.
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Re: Toneczar Openhaus [gutshots and schematic]

Postby noelgrassy » 23 Nov 2009, 14:44

It's good to see others improving their craft. Excellence is it's own reward.
It honestly took me a year to really start soldering well. Tips last a year or more now.
Joints are nice and shiny with complete "wet through" of all component leads.
I found using a solder station (Hakko #924=cheap too!) improved my work habits
considerably. I'm not saying every joint meets NASA specs but I'm not ashamed to view
something I built a few years ago. That's what used to really chap my hide. :secret:
I still haven't done anything about solder fumes and their effects on my dome... :roll: You
younger types still have a chance to prevent dain brammage.

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Re: Toneczar Openhaus [gutshots and schematic]

Postby jrod » 23 Nov 2009, 16:15

Since this thread is little OT, I just bought a nice 60W Weller soldering iron and station(?) for $5 at a garage sale. Will this one be too hot to use at 60 watts (especially with Ge transistors)?
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Re: Toneczar Openhaus [gutshots and schematic]

Postby abfackeln » 25 Nov 2009, 03:00

To get this thread back on topic, as well as give it a bump, here's a question:
Would it be worthwile/feasible to incorporate a voltage doubler, such as soulsonic's (from this thread: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=448&hilit=doubler), so that the pedal could be run from a 9v supply but still get the necessary 18v? (or, more specifically, the 15v)
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Re: Toneczar Openhaus [gutshots and schematic]

Postby soulsonic » 25 Nov 2009, 03:26

Sure, but maybe it would be better to use a more hard-core voltage converting circuit. In an old post, Analogguru mentioned the MC34063A chip as being something preferable to the usual MAX1044 charge pump people have been using. I ordered a couple of these chips awhile back to start experimenting with, but I haven't had a chance to mess with them yet. I will give it a shot and see how well I can get it to work.
You can see the datasheet with circuit examples here: http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collater ... 063A-D.PDF
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Re: Toneczar Openhaus [gutshots and schematic]

Postby Whoismarykelly » 25 Nov 2009, 04:16

I think there is potential for some of those chips to inject noise into the signal which may be why Ed didn't use one. He supplies all his pedals with the dunlop 18v power supply.
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Re: Toneczar Openhaus [gutshots and schematic]

Postby soulsonic » 25 Nov 2009, 04:42

Whoismarykelly wrote:I think there is potential for some of those chips to inject noise into the signal which may be why Ed didn't use one. He supplies all his pedals with the dunlop 18v power supply.

If you do it right, it won't. I've built lots of pedals with charge pump chips and not had any noise issues.
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Re: Toneczar Openhaus [gutshots and schematic]

Postby culturejam » 25 Nov 2009, 07:12

soulsonic wrote:If you do it right, it won't. I've built lots of pedals with charge pump chips and not had any noise issues.

Yeah, I would think that with proper supply isolation and filtering, it would be sufficiently quiet. But I'm still a noob when it comes to power supply stuff. 8)
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Re: Toneczar Openhaus [gutshots and schematic]

Postby abfackeln » 30 Nov 2009, 12:54

Got one of these built up on Saturday - used the schematic in Eagle to re-create the original board layout so I could use it as a "test-bed" and validate the unknown components (socketed all of the transistors), as well as validate the schematic (gotta love Eagle!). The initial build had very little signal and tons of noise... I spent several hours troubleshooting on Sunday with no success. Looked at it again with fresh eyes this morning, only to realize I had used the wrong type of jack for the Expression input - pulled that out, jumpered the connections on the board, and it works!
Here's what I've found/used:

All ICs - OPA2604AP (I was able to clean up another of the ICs and confirm these in the original)
Q1 - UA78L15 regulator
Q2/Q5 - LND150N3-G depletion mosfets
Q6 - J201/NTE458
Q3/Q4 - 2N1306

Initial impression is that this is pretty close to the original. Slight "hiss" at extreme gain settings, but otherwise pretty quiet. I'll have to get the original put back together for some true A/B comparisons.
Since I have the transistors socketed, I'll try swapping out the J201 with something a little lower gain, and see if that helps with the higher gain noise issue.
Also, for Q3/Q4, went with gains of 96 and 112 (compared to 87 and 100 in the original).
We're getting closer..... just need to update the schematic with the new parts and come up with a layout.......
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Re: Toneczar Openhaus [gutshots and schematic]

Postby SPeter » 30 Nov 2009, 13:31

:applause: :applause: :applause:
Hey abfackeln , this is great!
Many thanks!
Go ahead man!
:horsey:
Can't wait for updates!
:D
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Re: Toneczar Openhaus [gutshots and schematic]

Postby guiddruid » 30 Nov 2009, 17:49

Cool! Let's see some pics.
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Re: Toneczar Openhaus [gutshots and schematic]

Postby abfackeln » 01 Dec 2009, 03:13

guiddruid wrote:Cool! Let's see some pics.

You got it (click for bigger pics):

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The board is a little rough - had some trouble with the PNP, so free-handed the rough spots (I was in a hurry as always). Once I got it all boxed up, some of the high end hiss that was present before went away - still there, but less noticeable. I guess with a high gain circuit like this, some noise is inevitable. As stated before, it was only noticeable at extreme gain settings, and nothing that would make the pedal unuseable. I seem to remember the same in the original before I yanked all the transistors.
Before I boxed it up, I swapped out the JFET with an MPF102 - at higher gain settings, I liked this one a bit more - tightened up the overall response of the pedal. At lower gains, I preferred the J201, and this is what I wound up leaving in the pedal (the J201 sounds closer to the original to my ears).
I like the 1590S box, which is what I used, but a 1590BB would probably be better (I had to cram this shit in there), although the added height of the 1590S was certainly nice to work with. A better board layout would also likely help.
I'll finish getting the original boxed up tomorrow (hopefully) for some better comparisons, but I think this has got it.
And update the schematic, unless someone beats me to it......
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Re: Toneczar Openhaus [gutshots and schematic]

Postby Whoismarykelly » 01 Dec 2009, 05:21

I love the 1590s enclosure. Its the perfect size for a pedal. Your essentially-exact clone is well done.
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