Tech21 Character Series [schematic]
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Any idea what the parts differences are for the Oxford?
- GodSaveMetal
- Resistor Ronker
You made a new one PCB for that you post??? it is working???? please man post it!!! thanks!!! great job!!!!!!!rcustoms wrote:I read the whole post and make the pcb, this is now being tested.if everything is working well,i will post it
- rcustoms
- Resistor Ronker
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soon as i can ,i share the last pcbGodSaveMetal wrote:You made a new one PCB for that you post??? it is working???? please man post it!!! thanks!!! great job!!!!!!!rcustoms wrote:I read the whole post and make the pcb, this is now being tested.if everything is working well,i will post it
- bajaman
- Old Solderhand
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Thought I would revisit this thread and offer some new insight into the Character series gain module
I decided to simulate just the module (CH34-4) in National Instruments Multisim and examine it's clipping characteristics.
This module is the "guts" of the distortion in these pedals and from what I have seen is identical across the complete series.
There are two stages before the module - first a small buffer or gain stage (depending on whether the unit is in bypass mode or active)
The second stage "character" is a tone shaping pre distortion module stage - this is different for each of the models in the series and is basically what differentiates them all sound wise.
After the CH34-4 module, we have a two stage high frequency rolloff or "speaker simulator" circuit and output level control, which is followed by two fairly conventional post filtering EQ active baxandall Treble Middle and Bass stages.
The final stage is a small op amp buffer.
Anyway - back to the CH34-4 module
This module uses the LINCMos TLC2262 dual op amp - internally entirely constructed with mosfets - it gain swing the signal full rail before it clips and Tech 21 have used this same device in all of their pedals from the original Sans Amp onward. It has a very soft clipping characteristic and can sound a bit "mushy' in the bass region in my opinion. However it's implementation in the character series pedal is a little different With reference to the schematics earlier in this thread you may notice two back to back 3.3v silicon zener diodes in the feedback loop of the second stage of the CH34-4 module.
It is THESE zener diodes that clip FIRST in this module according to my simulations NOT the op amp as in the original Sans Amp pedals. These zeners also roll off the high frequency response of this stage - the signal is -3dB down at 5khz and drops to over -22db at 100khz. Without the zeners, the response is flat to 100khz and beyond
I must emphasize that the signal is attenuated at high frequencies by these zeners EVEN when the signal is NOT being clipped by them
The TLC2262 NEVER has the chance to influence the clipping behaviour in these pedals - all the clipping and high frequency rolloff is performed by the two back to back zener diodes - food for thought
Cheers
bajaman
I decided to simulate just the module (CH34-4) in National Instruments Multisim and examine it's clipping characteristics.
This module is the "guts" of the distortion in these pedals and from what I have seen is identical across the complete series.
There are two stages before the module - first a small buffer or gain stage (depending on whether the unit is in bypass mode or active)
The second stage "character" is a tone shaping pre distortion module stage - this is different for each of the models in the series and is basically what differentiates them all sound wise.
After the CH34-4 module, we have a two stage high frequency rolloff or "speaker simulator" circuit and output level control, which is followed by two fairly conventional post filtering EQ active baxandall Treble Middle and Bass stages.
The final stage is a small op amp buffer.
Anyway - back to the CH34-4 module
This module uses the LINCMos TLC2262 dual op amp - internally entirely constructed with mosfets - it gain swing the signal full rail before it clips and Tech 21 have used this same device in all of their pedals from the original Sans Amp onward. It has a very soft clipping characteristic and can sound a bit "mushy' in the bass region in my opinion. However it's implementation in the character series pedal is a little different With reference to the schematics earlier in this thread you may notice two back to back 3.3v silicon zener diodes in the feedback loop of the second stage of the CH34-4 module.
It is THESE zener diodes that clip FIRST in this module according to my simulations NOT the op amp as in the original Sans Amp pedals. These zeners also roll off the high frequency response of this stage - the signal is -3dB down at 5khz and drops to over -22db at 100khz. Without the zeners, the response is flat to 100khz and beyond
I must emphasize that the signal is attenuated at high frequencies by these zeners EVEN when the signal is NOT being clipped by them
The TLC2262 NEVER has the chance to influence the clipping behaviour in these pedals - all the clipping and high frequency rolloff is performed by the two back to back zener diodes - food for thought
Cheers
bajaman
be kind to all animals - especially human beings
- bajaman
- Old Solderhand
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A few more surprises compared to the earlier models before the cabsim switch was fitted
enjoy
bajaman
be kind to all animals - especially human beings
- bajaman
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I would suggest trying a value of 1n (possibly more) for the capacitor marked with a ?
This sets the high frequency rolloff when the speaker simulator cabsim switch is disengaged.
For the suggested value the high frequency response will be approximately -3db down at 8KHz.
Double the value (2n2) and the response will be -3db at 4Khz.
cheers
bajaman
This sets the high frequency rolloff when the speaker simulator cabsim switch is disengaged.
For the suggested value the high frequency response will be approximately -3db down at 8KHz.
Double the value (2n2) and the response will be -3db at 4Khz.
cheers
bajaman
be kind to all animals - especially human beings
bajaman, oh.. thanks ) speakersim bypass is from real pcb?
bajaman, any chances on us steel? =)
- bajaman
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yesbajaman, oh.. thanks ) speakersim bypass is from real pcb?
sorry - I have not seen that one yet - someone did post some gut shot pictures in another thread on this forum, but I have been unable to view them - sometimes images just seem to disappearbajaman, any chances on us steel? =)
If anyone has these pictures, would they please repost them in this thread.
cheers
bajaman
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- bajaman
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be kind to all animals - especially human beings
- bajaman
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be kind to all animals - especially human beings
- bajaman
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be kind to all animals - especially human beings
- bajaman
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I left R14 off yesterdays schematic - here is the corrected version revision 1
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- bajaman
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Here is revision 2
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- bajaman
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an interesting observation - C13 and R16 introduce a -6db gradual rolloff in the bass response EVEN when the cabsim is bypassed. At 900Hz this filter has little effect on the response curve, but by 100Hz the output level has been gradually reduced so that at low frequencies the response is -6db down. If this filter is removed, the response is flat from 900Hz down to 100Hz
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bajaman, at pdf schematic from first pages(liverpool) we see that there is no one part of circuit - after speakersim (10k -> 10k_gnd -> 1u ->10k). It's from original pcb?
Also what do you think about Blend pot realization at VT Bass DI?
Also what do you think about Blend pot realization at VT Bass DI?
I forgot to update the topic. First, there's a errata in the E1 value, it's definitly 10nF. Let's start from this.
Then I followed the advices of 12bass guy, found in this topic:
1) 22K resistor accross high pot, between lugs 1 and 2 (or maybe 3 and 2? who remembers )
2) DPDT simcab with pre sim on R14, R15 etc., the other wired to level pot and put a 10nF over ground when the switch is engaged
3) Put a 100K log instead of linear pot in volume (odd enough, the pedal had so much volume already at 1/10 with linear)
Great work bajaman, sorry for the interruption
Code: Select all
+------------------------------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| T e c h 2 1 | J O Y O |
+---------+---------+------------+-----------+---------+----------+---------+------------+---------+
| Blonde | British | California | Liverpool | VTBass | American | British | California | AC Tone |
--------+---------+---------+------------+-----------+---------+----------+---------+------------+---------+
R4 | *3.3k | 10k | | 3.3k | 3.3k | *10k | 10k(R4) | | 10k |
E1 | open | 18n | | 22n | 10nF | open | 18n(C3) | | 22n | Input &
Cin | 22n | 22n | | 22n | 22n | 22n ? | 22n(C1) | | 22n | filtering
C2 | 47n | 47n | | 47n | open | 47n ? | 47n(C2) | | 47n |
--------+---------+---------+------------+-----------+---------+----------+---------+------------+---------+
C5 | 22n | 10n | | 22n | 10n | 22n | 3n (C8) | | 22n |
C6 | 22n | 10n | | 22n | 10n | 15n | 82p(C7) | | 22n |
R6 | 1k | 1k | | 1k | 1k | 1k ? | 1k(R6) | | 1k | Character
R7 | 100k | 100k | | open | 100k | 100k | 100k(R7)| | 100k | pre-EQ
R9 | 1k | 3.3k | | 3.3k | 3.3k | 3.3k |3.3k(R10)| | 3.3k |
--------+---------+---------+------------+-----------+---------+----------+---------+------------+---------+
R14 | 47k | 33k | | 47k | 33k | 33k | 33k(R24)| | 33k |
C14 | 470p | 470p | | 180p | 470p | ? |470p(C17)| | ? | HP sim
C15 | 2.2n | 2.2n | | 2.7n | 2.2n | 2.2n |2.2n(C18)| | 4.7n ? |
--------+---------+---------+------------+-----------+---------+----------+---------+------------+---------+
C20 | 10n | 22n | | 18n | 10n | 15n |15n(C25) | | 18n | MID
C21 | 10n | 22n | | 22n | 10n | 15n |22n(C24) | | 22n | EQ
--------+---------+---------+------------+-----------+---------+----------+---------+------------+---------+
*Not used
1) 22K resistor accross high pot, between lugs 1 and 2 (or maybe 3 and 2? who remembers )
2) DPDT simcab with pre sim on R14, R15 etc., the other wired to level pot and put a 10nF over ground when the switch is engaged
3) Put a 100K log instead of linear pot in volume (odd enough, the pedal had so much volume already at 1/10 with linear)
Great work bajaman, sorry for the interruption
- bajaman
- Old Solderhand
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I just bought a JOYO California sound pedal - couldn't resist the $1.00 price tag (plus US$32.00 for shipping - hah ah )
First impressions were very favourable - I changed the dual op amp (TL062) - put a TLC2262 in it's place - i left the other two quad op amps (TL064).
May get around to tracing the component values but a this price - just buy it and do the mod
bajaman
First impressions were very favourable - I changed the dual op amp (TL062) - put a TLC2262 in it's place - i left the other two quad op amps (TL064).
May get around to tracing the component values but a this price - just buy it and do the mod
bajaman
be kind to all animals - especially human beings