EH Echoflanger  [schematic]

Discussion regarding early stompbox technology: 1960-1975 Please keep discussion focused and contribute what info you have...

Re: EH Echoflanger

Postby sadrew » 07 Jan 2014, 01:24

actually it was turning continuously ( stop pin lost?? )

then i opened it and turned the board and found it was split in two parts

if a replacement is impossible to find i'll try to use a normal rotary
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Re: EH Echoflanger

Postby larsjm » 19 Apr 2014, 20:56

Amazing that throughout this entire post there is no mention of the MN3001 as a sub for this circuit. The MN3001 is a dual 512 stage BBD, just like the SAD1024. One of the biggest problems I think people have with subbing in BBDs for the SAD series is they automatically assume the SAD1024 should be subbed with an MN3007. They are completely different in every way, shape and form. It's no wonder people get unsatisfactory to non-working results. Use what is closest to the datasheets and you'll be surprised what can be accomplished....
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Re: EH Echoflanger

Postby Dirk_Hendrik » 20 Apr 2014, 08:28

Agreed.
But many don't know how to read a datasheet. They only read that a SAD1024 was replaced by a MN3007. They fail to read that this also requires timing changes. And after all reading it is requested that someone hands the "howto" on a plate.
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Re: EH Echoflanger

Postby Scruffie » 20 Apr 2014, 11:49

The MN3001 is hardly a drop in, you need to account for the large insertion loss, the different biasing requirement (+5V back-gate bias) it's also a noisier chip and not to mention, no where near as plentiful in supply as a MN3007, the few out there would probably dry up very quickly if a popular project called for them. The MN3010 while a bit more suitable also suffers from very short supply so neither are good alternatives, that's why they get ignored.

The MN3007 can be adapted to this circuit with minimal effort (if you know what to do) and is easier to source from many suppliers (and allows for easy switching between 3007 & 3207 so that sourcing is even easier as the 3207 is still in production) in fact once the PCBs are drawn and prototyped there'll be a project for doing just that.
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Re: EH Echoflanger

Postby Stasss » 20 Apr 2014, 18:30

larsjm wrote:Amazing that throughout this entire post there is no mention of the MN3001 as a sub for this circuit. The MN3001 is a dual 512 stage BBD, just like the SAD1024. One of the biggest problems I think people have with subbing in BBDs for the SAD series is they automatically assume the SAD1024 should be subbed with an MN3007. They are completely different in every way, shape and form. It's no wonder people get unsatisfactory to non-working results. Use what is closest to the datasheets and you'll be surprised what can be accomplished....


....This is a "dish" on MN3007 it is necessary correctly to prepare All will be OK! :thumbsup
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Re: EH Echoflanger

Postby Dirk_Hendrik » 21 Apr 2014, 08:15

:?:
And now in clear English?
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Re: EH Echoflanger

Postby uncleboko » 21 Apr 2014, 09:45

Dirk_Hendrik wrote::?:
And now in clear English?


"Clear English" is a lost luxury I'm afraid - especially in the South of England.....innit!!!!
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Re: EH Echoflanger

Postby Stasss » 21 Apr 2014, 14:39

....Sorry for bad english! My Echoflanger works perfectly with MN3007 BBD. Very thank Paul Nelson and Govmnt Lacky!
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Re: EH Echoflanger

Postby GodSaveMetal » 21 Apr 2014, 15:09

Stasss wrote:....Sorry for bad english! My Echoflanger works perfectly with MN3007 BBD. Very thank Paul Nelson and Govmnt Lacky!


PCB, LAY, BOM, and PHOTOS please man!! THANKS!
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Re: EH Echoflanger

Postby Scruffie » 21 Apr 2014, 15:25

GodSaveMetal wrote:
Stasss wrote:....Sorry for bad english! My Echoflanger works perfectly with MN3007 BBD. Very thank Paul Nelson and Govmnt Lacky!


PCB, LAY, BOM, and PHOTOS please man!! THANKS!

Along with someone else i'll be releasing a fabbed project for a 3007/3207 echo flanger project soon.

You could adapt the SAD1024 etchable layout without too much work though.
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Re: EH Echoflanger

Postby Stasss » 21 Apr 2014, 17:28

Scruffie wrote:
GodSaveMetal wrote:
Stasss wrote:....Sorry for bad english! My Echoflanger works perfectly with MN3007 BBD. Very thank Paul Nelson and Govmnt Lacky!
PCB, LAY, BOM, and PHOTOS please man!! THANKS!
Along with someone else i'll be releasing a fabbed project for a 3007/3207 echo flanger project soon. You could adapt the SAD1024 etchable layout without too much work though.
I can not provide a photo here at PSB sayte.Shema will soon be ready. Send an email to: info_stas_ru@mail.ru. I send you photos.
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Re: EH Echoflanger

Postby larsjm » 22 Apr 2014, 06:23

The MN3001 wasn't' being offered as a perfect, "drop-in" replacement that require no work, but rather a more accurate representation of the original circuit, mainly for the second chip running in parallel multiplex. If we're not going for accuracy, why are we bothering to try to clone this thing in the first place? An MN3007 can't run parallel multiplex, nor can an MN3207. And as far as noise, how is the MN3001 inferior? It specs out exactly the same as the SAD1024: S/N of 70db with a THD of <1%...
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Re: EH Echoflanger

Postby Dirk_Hendrik » 22 Apr 2014, 07:56

larsjm wrote:If we're not going for accuracy, why are we bothering to try to clone this thing in the first place?

Matter of opinion. Some will go for accuracy. Most are pleased already if their build works.
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Re: EH Echoflanger

Postby Scruffie » 22 Apr 2014, 13:16

The MN3001 is a noisier chip compared to the 3007 I was referring to.

We're bothering to clone these circuits to have a functional work and sound alike of the original circuit which otherwise we couldn't have anything close to and of course the fun of the build.

If we wanted accuracy then we wouldn't go for an MN3001 any way, we'd all be trying to find a pair of SAD1024s but this way, everyone that wants to should easily be able to build a clone. I very much doubt an audience is going to hear our chips aren't in parallel multiplex :wink:

We could run 2 x MN3007 in parallel multiplex... but why bother, parallel multiplex improves the sampling, the 3007 is already a better chip and should theoretically at least, be equal to a SAD1024 in parallel multiplex.
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Re: EH Echoflanger

Postby Scruffie » 29 Apr 2014, 23:16

Back on track, going back to the best way to clock the 2 BBDs using 3007s as i'm trying to get my head round it, we have the option of doubling the clock and then using the spare half of the 4013 to divide that back down for the 1024 stage device however... the 1024 is only in play in the Chorus and Slap back modes... so what's wrong with just halving the clock cap for the 512 stage device modes (flanger & filter matrix) and then adjusting the value of the 150pF switched in for chorus & slap back accordingly to account for the now doubled clock on the 512.

Just trying to think of how best to keep it as stock as possible and while i'm sure the answer is in front of me, it's one of those situations where I swear i'm not thinking of something.
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Re: EH Echoflanger

Postby Scruffie » 29 Apr 2014, 23:44

Figured it out, dividing it is.
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Re: EH Echoflanger

Postby johnnyg » 14 Jun 2014, 08:43

Scruffie wrote: We could run 2 x MN3007 in parallel multiplex... but why bother, parallel multiplex improves the sampling, the 3007 is already a better chip and should theoretically at least, be equal to a SAD1024 in parallel multiplex.


Hi Scruffie, any advice on how to go about getting a pair of 3007s to run in parallel multiplex mode? I'm quite curious to try it and compare things to a single BBD.
Yet to break through the Space Charge
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Re: EH Echoflanger

Postby GodSaveMetal » 14 Jun 2014, 16:02

Please someone a single sided PCB??? PLEASE man!!
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Re: EH Echoflanger

Postby Scruffie » 15 Jun 2014, 04:12

johnnyg wrote:
Scruffie wrote: We could run 2 x MN3007 in parallel multiplex... but why bother, parallel multiplex improves the sampling, the 3007 is already a better chip and should theoretically at least, be equal to a SAD1024 in parallel multiplex.


Hi Scruffie, any advice on how to go about getting a pair of 3007s to run in parallel multiplex mode? I'm quite curious to try it and compare things to a single BBD.

Find the old SAD1024 datasheet, it's described nicely there.

For an example of it in use, I think the BYOC flanger might use the chips in parallel multiplex but that is only from memory.
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Re: EH Echoflanger

Postby Govmnt_Lacky » 16 Jun 2014, 14:36

GodSaveMetal wrote:Please someone a single sided PCB??? PLEASE man!!



Ummmm...... Have you READ this thread? :slap:
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