Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional  [schematic]

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Re: Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional

Postby DrNomis » 14 Aug 2014, 23:41

Masuto wrote:
jalmonsalmon wrote:There it is... Marshall Super Fuzz justification to add to my pedal collection.


Are we hooked or whaaat :twisted:

DrNomis wrote:I've already built a good sounding Mk II with some OC81Ds...... :thumbsup


Follow you, follow me: i bought those very same dsi oc81d that you have like one year ago, never got around to make the build, the other day i fired the pro mk ii thread you posted, and right now i am building a mk ii with those dsi's into a WHITE PIgeon FX MK I enclosure. Good grief.

Party party, party party, party party :popcorn:



When I first got my set of 5 DSI OC81D transistors in the post I tested them using my Semiconductor Analyzer, at first I was a little disappointed to find that they all had low Hfe readings and I honestly thought they wouldn't work in the Mk II circuit, but I decided to keep an open mind about them and try breadboarding the Mk II circuit so I could evaluate the performance of the DSI OC81D transistors, I was so surprised that they not only worked but also sounded good that I ended up starting that thread in the workbench so that anyone else who bought some of those DSI OC81D transistors would get some benefit from my experiences with them and maybe give them a go in their builds, also I wanted to show that these DSI OC81D transistors were a viable alternative to the hard to get, and expensive when you can find them, silver metal-can OC81D transistors, personally, I am happy with the tone I get from my Mk II build with the DSI OC 81D transistors, I compared it to some demos I found on youtube, and to my ears the tone sounds alot like the demos, but more to the point, my build seems to sound alot smoother/less blatty, maybe the low Hfe of the transistors may have something to do with it, I don't know, but it works for me anyway...... :thumbsup
Genius is not all about 99% perspiration, and 1% inspiration - sometimes the solution is staring you right in the face.-Frequencycentral.

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Re: Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional

Postby jalmonsalmon » 15 Aug 2014, 03:03

DrNomis wrote:
Masuto wrote:
jalmonsalmon wrote:There it is... Marshall Super Fuzz justification to add to my pedal collection.


Are we hooked or whaaat :twisted:

DrNomis wrote:I've already built a good sounding Mk II with some OC81Ds...... :thumbsup


Follow you, follow me: i bought those very same dsi oc81d that you have like one year ago, never got around to make the build, the other day i fired the pro mk ii thread you posted, and right now i am building a mk ii with those dsi's into a WHITE PIgeon FX MK I enclosure. Good grief.

Party party, party party, party party :popcorn:



When I first got my set of 5 DSI OC81D transistors in the post I tested them using my Semiconductor Analyzer, at first I was a little disappointed to find that they all had low Hfe readings and I honestly thought they wouldn't work in the Mk II circuit, but I decided to keep an open mind about them and try breadboarding the Mk II circuit so I could evaluate the performance of the DSI OC81D transistors, I was so surprised that they not only worked but also sounded good that I ended up starting that thread in the workbench so that anyone else who bought some of those DSI OC81D transistors would get some benefit from my experiences with them and maybe give them a go in their builds, also I wanted to show that these DSI OC81D transistors were a viable alternative to the hard to get, and expensive when you can find them, silver metal-can OC81D transistors, personally, I am happy with the tone I get from my Mk II build with the DSI OC 81D transistors, I compared it to some demos I found on youtube, and to my ears the tone sounds alot like the demos, but more to the point, my build seems to sound alot smoother/less blatty, maybe the low Hfe of the transistors may have something to do with it, I don't know, but it works for me anyway...... :thumbsup


I have 3 more OC75s coming from small bear for the supa fuzz plus I still have 6 OC75s laying around and hopefully out of those 9 I can get this dialed in without any issues :shock:
I would rather keep the stock values that pigeon fx sends me so wish me luck and stay tuned!

I am kind of interested in getting a trio of those DSI OC81Ds but man those things are pricey when you see them :?
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Re: Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional

Postby DrNomis » 15 Aug 2014, 03:53

jalmonsalmon wrote:
DrNomis wrote:
Masuto wrote:
jalmonsalmon wrote:There it is... Marshall Super Fuzz justification to add to my pedal collection.


Are we hooked or whaaat :twisted:

DrNomis wrote:I've already built a good sounding Mk II with some OC81Ds...... :thumbsup


Follow you, follow me: i bought those very same dsi oc81d that you have like one year ago, never got around to make the build, the other day i fired the pro mk ii thread you posted, and right now i am building a mk ii with those dsi's into a WHITE PIgeon FX MK I enclosure. Good grief.

Party party, party party, party party :popcorn:



When I first got my set of 5 DSI OC81D transistors in the post I tested them using my Semiconductor Analyzer, at first I was a little disappointed to find that they all had low Hfe readings and I honestly thought they wouldn't work in the Mk II circuit, but I decided to keep an open mind about them and try breadboarding the Mk II circuit so I could evaluate the performance of the DSI OC81D transistors, I was so surprised that they not only worked but also sounded good that I ended up starting that thread in the workbench so that anyone else who bought some of those DSI OC81D transistors would get some benefit from my experiences with them and maybe give them a go in their builds, also I wanted to show that these DSI OC81D transistors were a viable alternative to the hard to get, and expensive when you can find them, silver metal-can OC81D transistors, personally, I am happy with the tone I get from my Mk II build with the DSI OC 81D transistors, I compared it to some demos I found on youtube, and to my ears the tone sounds alot like the demos, but more to the point, my build seems to sound alot smoother/less blatty, maybe the low Hfe of the transistors may have something to do with it, I don't know, but it works for me anyway...... :thumbsup


I have 3 more OC75s coming from small bear for the supa fuzz plus I still have 6 OC75s laying around and hopefully out of those 9 I can get this dialed in without any issues :shock:
I would rather keep the stock values that pigeon fx sends me so wish me luck and stay tuned!

I am kind of interested in getting a trio of those DSI OC81Ds but man those things are pricey when you see them :?



That's odd, I seem to remember only paying about $20.00 or so for my set of five DSI OC81D transistors....... :hmmm:


Anyway, good luck with your build, I posted a list of voltages for my Mk II in the workbench section so feel free to use them as a guide or for troubleshooting....... :thumbsup
Genius is not all about 99% perspiration, and 1% inspiration - sometimes the solution is staring you right in the face.-Frequencycentral.
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Re: Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional

Postby boblob » 15 Aug 2014, 14:52

jalmonsalmon wrote:I am kind of interested in getting a trio of those DSI OC81Ds but man those things are pricey when you see them :?


Minifux on eBay auctions them in lots of 5, but I don't see any on at the minute.

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Germanium-Transistor/Germanium-Transistoren-/

That's where I got mine - £15 for 5, which is as cheap as you'll get them. Little Diode do them for £9(!) each...
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Re: Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional

Postby Masuto » 15 Aug 2014, 20:10

http://www.flickr.com/x/t/0090009/photo ... 4742113627

Measuring hfes here.. 50, 40, 30.. low. Lets see..
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Re: Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional

Postby DrNomis » 15 Aug 2014, 20:50

Masuto wrote:http://www.flickr.com/x/t/0090009/photos/vespatron/14742113627

Measuring hfes here.. 50, 40, 30.. low. Lets see..




In my Mk II build Q1 and Q2 had an Hfe measuring 33, and Q3 had an Hfe measuring 39...... :thumbsup
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Re: Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional

Postby Masuto » 15 Aug 2014, 23:49

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Re: Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional

Postby DrNomis » 16 Aug 2014, 10:19

Masuto wrote:http://www.flickr.com/x/t/0093009/photos/vespatron/14743513940

Build finished. Ace pedal!




Looks cool, does it sound similar to my build?....... :thumbsup
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Re: Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional

Postby Masuto » 18 Aug 2014, 09:57

http://soundcloud.com/masutomasuto/dsi-oc81d-mkii-build
Mine sounds like this.. volume drop due to gf not wanting to hear wailing noises..
It has a lot of volume on tap. Sorry as ever for my crappy playing.
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Re: Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional

Postby DrNomis » 18 Aug 2014, 14:23

Masuto wrote:http://soundcloud.com/masutomasuto/dsi-oc81d-mkii-build
Mine sounds like this.. volume drop due to gf not wanting to hear wailing noises..
It has a lot of volume on tap. Sorry as ever for my crappy playing.




Sounds even smoother than my build....nice..... :thumbsup
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Re: Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional

Postby Masuto » 18 Aug 2014, 14:58

So i must guess now its time to buff up my oc81 triplet too..
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Re: Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional

Postby Masuto » 18 Aug 2014, 17:36

http://soundcloud.com/masutomasuto/nkt-oc81-vs-dsi-oc81d
Heres a little clip of an a/b test between oc81s.
Check the comments to locate which is which.
Nkt oc81: q1 75 q2 105 q3 125. Paid 18 pounds, testing charge included.
Dsi oc81d: q1 around 30/40, q2 around 50, q3 51ish.
The nkt were built into a oc75 layout since they reflect the hfe values most commonly expected on oc75 builds. But this build is somewhat noisier since it will not bias properly though the trannies fall in the right gain and leakage range.. or so they were sold to me..
The classic oc81d template is the one i used for the dsi oc81d.
I reckon the nkt oc81 have some more highs and maybe feel more wild.. but to be completely honest, i like the dsi oc81ds better. Easier to bias, and they sound great.
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Re: Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional

Postby DrNomis » 18 Aug 2014, 18:12

To my ears those NKT OC81s sound a bit more grittier than the DSI OC81Ds, whereas the DSI OC81Ds sound smoother with a touch more lows in the tone....... :thumbsup
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Re: Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional

Postby boblob » 19 Aug 2014, 12:40

DrNomis wrote:To my ears those NKT OC81s sound a bit more grittier than the DSI OC81Ds, whereas the DSI OC81Ds sound smoother with a touch more lows in the tone....... :thumbsup


Yeah, the NKTs are quite gritty - what's the voltage on Q3? Guessing it's 8+. Gates a bit too much for my taste - I'd take the resistor on Q2 collector down a bit.

My DSi build was quite smooth sounding too. If you like smooth, try getting some OC84Ns.
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Re: Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional

Postby electrip » 19 Aug 2014, 16:28

DrNomis wrote:To my ears those NKT OC81s sound a bit more grittier than the DSI OC81Ds, whereas the DSI OC81Ds sound smoother with a touch more lows in the tone....... :thumbsup

Lower HFE -> lower input impedance -> less highs on guitar ->smoother sound
Lower HFE in all positions -> less gain/compression -> less high frequency harmonics generated ->smoother sound

Lower HFE on Q3 (Q2 for Fuzz Face) does not mean
that gain/compression has to be smaller by the same amount
because Q2 (Q1 for Fuzz Face) can push more base current into the lower input impedance.
You have to adjust the resistors for optimum performance
and if you alter those values a lot you have to alter the capacitators also
to keep the original frequency response.

This does not imply that all transistors sound the same
but there is no transistor which has more lows -they all amplify DC -
it is just the behaviour of the whole circuit inclusive guitar and cable.
One can perceive less highs as more lows or darker, I do, too.
I left completely (voltage dependent) collector capacity out.

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Re: Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional

Postby Masuto » 21 Aug 2014, 08:54

Well i guess i like smooth better.. i used to collect garage rock from the sixties.. you can definitely hear how bands (especially from texas, early adopters cos of the heat i guess) used ear piercing, often ice picking silicon fuzzes. Thats why i like bands from before 1967. Later bands used silicon.
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Re: Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional

Postby DrNomis » 21 Aug 2014, 10:36

I tend to like my Fuzz pedals sounding smooth too, where the sustain is nice and even with very little blattiness...... :thumbsup
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Re: Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional

Postby boblob » 21 Aug 2014, 19:01

Masuto wrote:Well i guess i like smooth better.. i used to collect garage rock from the sixties.. you can definitely hear how bands (especially from texas, early adopters cos of the heat i guess) used ear piercing, often ice picking silicon fuzzes. Thats why i like bands from before 1967. Later bands used silicon.


I love Texan psych - the fuzzier the better. Which bands do you reckon are more "silicon"?

The guy from Cold Sun had an outrageously squelchy fuzz tone. I've no idea what he used, but tinkering around with germanium FuzzRites got me in the ballpark.
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Re: Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional

Postby beedotman » 26 Aug 2014, 20:25

I had DAM MKII with OC75 and it was biased around 8.2V - 8.3V with fresh battery 9.9V.
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Re: Sola Sound - Tonebender Mark II Professional

Postby rosetta » 28 Aug 2014, 23:15

Finally i could fix my tonebender, all this issue for a misslabeled cap, instead of a 15nF they sold me a 15pF, once I changed it the pedal worked awsome!!!

on my build i got oc75 and biased them around 9.2 with a 9,5v batery.
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