Mosrite - Fuzzrite  [schematic]

Discussion regarding early stompbox technology: 1960-1975 Please keep discussion focused and contribute what info you have...

Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby Masuto » 18 May 2014, 08:23

Ok guys.. ive finished building the vero of this with trimmers on the two central 470k resistors.
Tried metal can 2n2222, and now i switched to a 2n3904 on q1 and 2n2222 on q2 BUT i dont know.. i am a bit perplexed. Havent put the 22k resistor yet, but as it is now, i get unity at full volume only.. and the notes die pretty much as if the trannies were misbiased: no sustain whatsoever! The attack too has got that "not really there" quality to it. Good for a sitar simulation, but i seem to remember sustain from my previous build (same components, same values, except it had the diode/47uF protection combo.
I changed the .0022 caps to .0047 to get more balls but it made it sounding less 60es fuzzy, and introduced some mids that i dont like.
What do you suggest?
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby Masuto » 18 May 2014, 22:01

Ok..went back to my previous build. It mounts a couple of metal can, 2N2845 and it had a good amount of volume on tap..and a good buzzy character to it. Stock values, no 22k resistor.
So i removed the trimmers from my build, and returned to stock .0022 uf caps. More compressed because of the 22k i added, but a nice increase in volume. That means, the trimmers were somehow soffucating the tone.
Sounds great now.
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby Masuto » 24 May 2014, 05:54

Trying different trannies for q1, i finally settled for a mpsa18 (thanks Ekaterina) and a 2n2222a on q2. Great singing tone, stock caps..sustained and it cuts well thru a mix.
Thanks everyone!

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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby DrNomis » 13 Aug 2014, 00:11

Been thinking of building a Ge version of this one when I get the lot of 560 Philco Germanium transistors I bought off eBay, they should be arriving in the post soon, possibly next fortnight, I'm interested in building the Ge version because I want to get that Erik Brann InnaGadda Da Vida Fuzztone...... :thumbsup
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby Masuto » 16 Oct 2014, 07:19

Yesterday evening I built the germanium version, stock, from IvIark's layout.
Having built a few silicon ones before, i was surprised at how shrill and piercing the ge sounds.
I used quite high hfe germs, texas instruments 1307. Maybe i will have to tweak with the trannie at q2 a bit more..but i wanted to hear how the stock sounded. And it got me wondering, from a musical point of view..
For sure these were quite heavily compressed and eq'ed in the studio in the late 60es to make them a bit less harsh..and no wonder some of these devices have been long forgotten (think the Companion FY2: who would use something that mean sounding if not someone with an "annoying plan" in mind, like Jesus and Mary Chain had?!). I have the feeling these were put aside for some other fuzzes that gave more control and lets just face it, better sound, like fuzz faces or tone benders.
I mean within the same band, Buffalo Springfield as told by some before: Young had a vox Tonebender and Stills played his Ge Fuzzrite..makes you wonder. I will have to try it with a warm tube amp.
Am i talking s%#t?
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby allesz » 16 Oct 2014, 15:47

I think that they were actually used with tube amps, so your guess is right to me. Think about a germanium treble booster, in a tube amp may be great, but use it in front of a roland jazz chorus... jeez.

I am a fan of the mosrite and I have a tweaked one on my board, and I love the misbiased sound it can make sometimes too, but I use it only for single note playing: it really helps the notes pop out from the mix (in a nice creepy way 8) ), but for playing cords and rhythm give me a normal overdrive forever (almost).
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby D-Day » 16 Oct 2014, 16:30

I just finished an si Fuzzrite based on Mark's layout the day before yesterday. Good times!
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby tabbycat » 16 Oct 2014, 21:30

Masuto wrote:Yesterday evening I built the germanium version, stock, from IvIark's layout.
Having built a few silicon ones before, i was surprised at how shrill and piercing the ge sounds...
And it got me wondering, from a musical point of view..
For sure these were quite heavily compressed and eq'ed in the studio in the late 60es to make them a bit less harsh..and no wonder some of these devices have been long forgotten (think the Companion FY2: who would use something that mean sounding if not someone with an "annoying plan" in mind, like Jesus and Mary Chain had?!).
I have the feeling these were put aside for some other fuzzes that gave more control and lets just face it, better sound, like fuzz faces or tone benders.
Am i talking s%#t?

hey masuto, it's good to catch up with your ongoing experimentation with these.

re the germanium-silicon thing, it's probably one of those demand-dictates-development things that comes with any new media technology.
in contexts that i know personally (photography and music) the public leapt on the convenience of jpeg and mp3 format devices as soon as they became widely available (partly because they were new, partly because they were convenient, and partly - later on - because they were cheaper than previous equivalents) despite the fact that initially these technologies delivered far inferior results compared to those previous systems.
the dubious qualities of early severely-compressed jpegs and mp3 formats compared to their uncompressed (but awkward predecessors) may be in some respects comparable to the difference between valve and solid-state technology, and the germanium and silicon effects that go with them.

but then as soon as a format becomes superior and all-dominating it becomes the status quo and boring and those looking for different sounds turn to alternatives, including outdated tech, in order to find something that will make them stand out.

jamc's mission was to do just that. while the early 1980s charts were entirely overrun with digitally-processed high-gloss-high-glam aspirational 'yuppie-pop' they deliberately set out to combine the confrontational sonic textures of einstürzende neubauten and vu with the hard-and-streetwise 1960s spector-pop of the shangri-las, ronnettes, etc.
the clash between the philosophies and technologies of both camps came to a head during the recording sessions for 'psychocandy' when the band insisted on doing their usual shock-and-awe live performance in the studio while the producers shook their heads at the bouncing needles on their monitors and complained that, unless the band toned it down for the recording process, the resultant vinyl album would be so clipped or compressed as to be either uncuttable or unlistenable.

“We tried a couple of studios but it just wasn’t working. We couldn’t find the right place to record Psychocandy. We’d been to several places and they were all terrible. You’d start trying to do a mix and sorting out the guitar level and you could see the engineer looking uncomfortable with what we were doing. He be going, ‘But it’s in the red!’ and we were going, ‘Fuck that, pal! Just go for a slash!’ We just had to get away from that kind of mentality that we got in every studio in London. There was always someone in these places that just didn’t like our music" (jim reid, jamc).

so anyway, i think you are right on both counts.

i'd like to hear your results if you get around to recording anything. your previous soundcloud ones for your experiments with transistor options were really interesting. thanks for the updates.
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby Masuto » 17 Oct 2014, 19:10

I tried it with my little tube vox and it sounds good. I tried a few transistors swaps, and honestly if you keep goin with the high hfe on q1/low on q2 they all sound very similar..so it is not difficult to nail the sound of the original. but from the creepyfingers youtube demo, it sounds as if the original has got some extra compression that makes the pedal jump out in an exciting way..i guess thats what was mentioned a couple of posts up here that said 'jumps out of the mix in a good way' (sorry im writing on a phone). Now nailing THAT would be interesting. On the comments to that particular cf video cf says some of the early ones had .1 caps now im wondering where and how many?!
jamc.. i just love them. And i too remember the shitty plastic keyboarding 80es pop.
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby Nocentelli » 17 Oct 2014, 19:22

Apologies for straying a little off topic, but the guy from Ghost effects in the UK recently did a fuzziness/Rosac nufuzz hybrid that's pretty cool:

http://www.ghosteffects.co.uk/pdf/lunar ... _guide.pdf
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby Masuto » 18 Oct 2014, 23:18

tabbycat wrote:i'd like to hear your results if you get around to recording anything. your previous soundcloud ones for your experiments with transistor options were really interesting. thanks for the updates.


Shake it out:
https://soundcloud.com/masutomasuto/ge- ... definitive
I added the usual bunch of clips to my stream, using a strat, small vox tube amp and unfortunately at low volume.
First part of each clip is neck pickup, halfway on its bridge acrion. Sorry as always for the shitty playing.
I auditioned a buncha trannies all sporting the tried and tested rule, hfe >120 on q1 and <90 on q2.
Then i took a pause and went back to the creepy fingers vid. And finally i recorded the last two clips, the ones that get really in the ballpark soundwise.
Q1 must be pretty noisy and gainy, q2 doesnt seem to add much to the overall shape.
But then again, i might be wrong. Just my 2c.
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby ljn » 29 Nov 2014, 02:10

Hi. I'm new to you forum, and I'd like to say the fuzzrite is a great pedal. I built the silicon version, and it's my favorite fuzz pedal. I can get nearly any sound I want with it. It took me over a year to get good results due to the vast amount of misinformation about this particular circuit. I absolutely love mine. I think it's a better pedal than any fuzz face or big muff ever dreamed of being. I put a tone switch on my clone, so it's like two different pedals in one little box.
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby ljn » 29 Nov 2014, 02:20

Oh. I used a couple of C1740 trannies in mine.3904,and2N2222 sounded like pure trash. Also, the pots are matching 500k log taper, and my collector resistors are 10 k. To get rid of radio static, I put a.022 if capacitor across the input on the board. Don't put it on the jack, as it will adversely affect the bypass signal. It has about 14 seconds of sustain, and pulls off the Iron Butterfly tone with no effort. It's a very underrated effect, but if you know how to use it properly, it's amazing.
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby ljn » 29 Nov 2014, 04:46

I used a pair of C1740 transistors in my clone. It's my favorite pedal.the collector resistors are 10 k. I've posted on it in other threads.
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby ljn » 29 Nov 2014, 04:49

koSorry for the double post. I thought this was a different thread.
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby capricorn_1 » 01 Dec 2014, 16:01

Nocentelli wrote:Apologies for straying a little off topic, but the guy from Ghost effects in the UK recently did a fuzziness/Rosac nufuzz hybrid that's pretty cool:

http://www.ghosteffects.co.uk/pdf/lunar ... _guide.pdf


Hey thanks! The link you posted is broken! Here's the info, PCBs are also on Ebay if DIYers are interested...
http://www.ghosteffects.co.uk/lunar_incantation.html

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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby D-Day » 01 Dec 2014, 20:12

ljn wrote: took me over a year to get good results due to the vast amount of misinformation about this particular circuit.


Misinformation? Did you read the thread here?
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby ljn » 01 Dec 2014, 20:17

D-Day wrote:
ljn wrote: took me over a year to get good results due to the vast amount of misinformation about this particular circuit.


Misinformation? Did you read the thread here?

Yes. I read everything I could find.
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby D-Day » 02 Dec 2014, 21:02

I forgot to say welcome!

And I'm not trying to be argumentative here but I don't really see 'misinformation' in this thread. Both the silicon and germanium schematics are available and there are several verified layouts for various DIY formats. What did you see that was incorrect? It would seem one could download the si schem and Mark's layout and be cranking the thing that afternoon. I see alot of chatter about personal preference items like output caps, resistor/pot values and transistor favorites but nothing I read (just reread it all now) seemed flat-out incorrect.

Or are you saying the misinformation was elsewhere and this thread helped you get it sorted out?

I hope I'm not lacking cordiality! It's just that I had a very different experience with this circuit and this was the only place I looked.
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Re: Mosrite - Fuzzrite

Postby ljn » 02 Dec 2014, 21:33

D-Day wrote:I forgot to say welcome!

And I'm not trying to be argumentative here but I don't really see 'misinformation' in this thread. Both the silicon and germanium schematics are available and there are several verified layouts for various DIY formats. What did you see that was incorrect? It would seem one could download the si schem and Mark's layout and be cranking the thing that afternoon. I see alot of chatter about personal preference items like output caps, resistor/pot values and transistor favorites but nothing I read (just reread it all now) seemed flat-out incorrect.

Or are you saying the misinformation was elsewhere and this thread helped you get it sorted out?

I hope I'm not lacking cordiality! It's just that I had a very different experience with this circuit and this was the only place I looked.
You're probably right. And yes, I did read alot of thing that were said to be correct, tried them, and always got poor results. I gave up on mine for a while. I think I read most of this thread and it inspired me to get back to work on it. I'm not saying that everyone is wrong. Personal preferrence plays a huge role in all effects. I'm just saying it took a long time to find something that sounded good to me. One thing I didn't find out about was the high pass resistor. That's an important part that's usually not mentioned. Anyway, I hope I wasn't taken the wrong way. You guys have alot of useful information on here, and I just wanted to do my part to help others who may be having similar problems with this circuit.
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