Black List: schematic censorship log book

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Black List: schematic censorship log book

Postby modman » 01 Jul 2007, 03:00

Restriction of Schematics, a recent post

Most of the confusion is coming from people not knowing exactly what is on the black list. The above thread shows this once again. It was never clearly stated, and how can it be unless this is a notice 'read and agree' you should click on when entering the forum.

zj

it seems indeed like the ice is melting

Aron wrote Today at 20:36:53
>Contributors who have asked for their stuff NOT to be posted ... from memory :
Zvex but minus the SHO
Ton - all his newer EH designs

>MI Audio
The "Klon" guy
Crowthers Hotcake etc

Klon and Crowther have never talked to me. AFAIK, there is no verified Klon schematic anywhere and the HotCake is around. It was posted on AMPAGE long ago.

>Seems to me that the only way is to agree to not post things that are REQUESTED to not be posted and this
is at the discression of aron and peter ....... doesn't make it "fair" though at all in my book icon_rolleyes

The whole point of this conversation is that I don't want to do this.

I cannot see how the following is problematic:

Posting schematics without component values
Posting circuit snippets - not the complete circuit

in fact, I don't see how posting a schematic that is not named and has no controls named can affect the original maker. People will see a distortion as what it really is, a modded tube screamer or modded fuzz face etc...

This much I do know, it is very, very wrong to not allow this hobby to study circuits. It's just like music - what if you weren't allowed to study the music you listen to?

--------------------
31-08-2007

There's a complete list at last apparently. Now it even includes out of production boxes???

The Tone God
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Julie



Re: Study on the Effect of Schematic Restrictions on this Forum
« Reply #3 on: 21-08-2007, 21:56:33 »

Restricted Products:

Current Production

RMC

RMC1 - RMC6

Zvex

Box of Rock
Fuzz Factory
Machine
Octane
Seek Wah
Ohh Wah
Seek Trem
Tremorama
Jonny Octave
Super Duper 2 in 1
Woolly Mammoth
Ringtone
Lo Fi Loop Junky
Wah Probe
Volume Probe
Fuzz Probe
iMP
Nano Head

Klon

Out of Production

RMC

FK-1 Compressor
Big Quack
Swinewave
MFOB

Zvex

Volume Probe
Drip Guitar

Results:

DIY Replacements

Seek Wah
Ohh Wah
Seek Trem
Tremorama
Super Duper 2 in 1
Lo Fi Loop Junky
Probe series (3)

Confirmed Origins

Octane
Jonny Octave
Fuzz Factory

DIY Similars

Machine
Box of Rock
Woolly Mammoth
Klon

Information

RMC1 - RMC6
Ringtone

No requests

FK-1 Compressor
Big Quack
Swinewave
MFOB
iMP
Nano Head
Volume Probe
Drip Guitar
Last edited by modman on 12 Feb 2008, 10:43, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby bajaman » 01 Jul 2007, 03:17

A good post Modman 8)
I have always admired Aron for his work and store etc.
He has a vested interest in his DIY site, as he has stated to me in his correspondence - I don't see any problem with that!
I do feel he opened a MASSIVE can of worms when he started the " when did it become bad...." thread though.
However his recent posts clearly show that he is seeing who the real insulters are :wink:
He has invited me back to post, but I would far rather post here for the present :D
Long live this site
Steve
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Postby modman » 01 Jul 2007, 03:22

Hi Bajaman, good to see you here,

Yes, like Analoggure wrote me privately, he might have seen the forum here, it's not really clear. With this section we can have our niche irrespective of Aron's restrictions.

I got two private message enquiring about my view on the restrictions yesterday (see Member's section), almost like an invitation back. No mention of this forum though.

off to bed now,
4,22am
pff
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Postby bajaman » 01 Jul 2007, 03:28

Gretings Modman
Areb you sure you are not a Vampire :lol:
4:22 am - that is dedication :wink:
sleep well
Steve
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UPDATE

Postby modman » 09 Jul 2007, 16:18

Beyond the general confusion, there is certainty on these boutiquers

- VZEX
- Puretube
- Geoffrey Teese (the Real McCoy Wah) check this thread

All the rest I never seen censored by Aron, but the if you check moderator Peter Snowberg's post, you can see where it got out of hand.
"The whole point of diy is diy. It's not dsoiyathodtr - do some of it yourself and then have others do the rest" (paulc)
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Postby analogguru » 09 Jul 2007, 16:35

Aron granted only to Zvex and Geoffrey Teese, this would be ok.

It got out of hand when Peter Snowberg - not aron - granted to Robin-puretube not to post schematics and even pictures of EH-units designed by puretube.

Then every little "Yesterday- I-didn´t-even-know-how-to-solder, today-I-am-a-boutiqe-builder-and-I-want-to-be-as-successful-as-Zachieee.."-solderer claims the same right for himself.....

analogguru
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.
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Postby modman » 09 Jul 2007, 16:57

Still, I don't like Teese's attitude of particupating in the forum to spread more wah dust in people's eyes while, when being asked about particulars, point to RG's article he could not write himself. Does RG's article do anything but kill the myth.

Or is Teese having these early 'faulty' inductor coils reproduced? That is RG ultimate suggestion for mojo.

You can make very authenic reproduction wahs, but he says "if someone other uses that type of component, I have to use another" while at the same time claiming to have extraordianry hearing and base all decisions on that, is in my view a bit conflicting.

Which reminds me of a friend who broke a 200 EUR Roland wah in two months, then bought the Real McCoy, which is broken after 4 months. And he's such a careful fellow.


ZJ
"The whole point of diy is diy. It's not dsoiyathodtr - do some of it yourself and then have others do the rest" (paulc)
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Postby analogguru » 09 Jul 2007, 17:22

Hmm... I have my Jen Double-Sound now since more than two years, and my Bespeco Weeper since more than one month and they are still in a perfect condition.... Ahhhh.... yes, I never really used them.... :lol:
For what i should ? I can´t play guitar, I even don´t have a guitar... :roll:

Watch out for the RMC Wizard schematic - coming soon, but nothing really new.

analogguru

P.S.: I would need some clean guitar riffs and solos as mp3´s so that I can test better distortion circuits...
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.
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Postby soulsonic » 09 Jul 2007, 21:32

I don't understand why Teese is so secretive about the design of his wah. I read his posts and it sounds like his wah uses "special" components that only he produces. That means, if someone tried to copy it, he would be unsuccessful because it can't be a "Real McCoy" without the special Teese parts. Since no one else can get the parts, what is he worried about?

What makes his wah special anyway? I have an old old Vox V846 wah, and it sounds nice, but it's not anything I'd get too excited over. I don't believe there are any "holy grail" pedals. I generally put effect pedals into two categories: ones that sound Good, and ones that sound Bad. Why this obsession with cloning something?
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Postby modman » 09 Jul 2007, 21:47

analogguru wrote:P.S.: I would need some clean guitar riffs and solos as mp3´s so that I can test better distortion circuits...


Strat neck Texas Special pickup into BF Super Reverb recorded with shure sm58 on digi001 soundcard

got hi res files too, i believe....

But there's always the problem that I play into the effect. Would play more licks and riff when there's distortion on.

maybe it's a start, if I have more time next few days.

ZJ
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Postby bajaman » 09 Jul 2007, 22:47

Teese wahs - 10% mojo, 90% b*llshit :lol:
One day, I may just expose these myths - in the meantime , I would suggest reading R.G. Keen's "the technology of the wah wah pedal" article.
In my experience, getting a good wah sound ( which is completely subjective :wink: ), involves using the BEST quality capacitors in the feedback loop, a NON POLARISED high quality capacitor for the 100k bypass, AND a DIGITAL multimeter that can accurately read capacitance and inductance, so you can TUNE the circuit for thae correct sweep range, which is usually 2 octaves with the "standard" wah circuit.
The pot is important to a lesser extent - because the rack and pinion gear system only works over approximately 200 degrees, a standard 100k lin or log pot is NOT ideal - although I have used them in the past and never had any complaints!!!
More later :wink:
Cheers
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Postby gus » 18 Jul 2007, 00:10

The teese stuff was out before most of the web stuff even started IIRC.

It seems some don't know the history of effect sites on the web and companies that were selling before or early in the web days. I wish I wrote notes now. The early stuff was lepers, geofex, dmz, ampage, plate to plate from what I remember 95 96 is when I started surfing the web.

in the USA there is a saying "just because you can does not mean you should"

You can do/post what you want but think about this what if you did this for a living and you were not a newtweeker cloner. Or say you start a company building effects and you go to a show do you want all the other companies to not like you or maybe they will reverse your effect and put it on the web for the newtweekers/cloners.
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Postby modman » 22 Jul 2007, 14:03

gus wrote:in the USA there is a saying "just because you can does not mean you should"

You can do/post what you want but think about this what if you did this for a living and you were not a newtweeker cloner. Or say you start a company building effects and you go to a show do you want all the other companies to not like you or maybe they will reverse your effect and put it on the web for the newtweekers/cloners.


Personally, I'm not even vaguely interested in that exact configuration that makes up Teese's wah or the Centaur. But I do want to try out whatever to customize my own wah to me likings.

Teese does proclaims a lot about the orginality of his pedal. No coincidence that the name 'The Real McCoy' refers to 'catholic priests' (against all the rest). He has original components made, so we doesn't have to goop up the circuit. Attributing all the mojo to those components (pot, transistor, inductor), is a bit too much for a scientific mind:

RG's The Technology of the Wah wrote:I saw no differences at first with tiny sine wave drives. It wasn't until I turned the generator up that differences appeared. The Crybaby inductor performed exactly as I would have expected it to. That is, it had an output that was essentially a pure sine wave right up until the sine was big enough or lowe enough in frequency to start it into the first touches of saturation. When that started, I got precisely what theory predicts: appearance of the third harmonic of the dirve waveform, followed by fifth, and finally a touch of seventh when I really pushed it. However, when I did the same to the Fasel inductor, the onset of saturation-generated harmonics happened a bit sooner, and a second harmonic appeared with the third! As I turned the drive up, the fourth rose with the fifth, and I never got a seventh harmonic. The inductor, all by itself was clipping asymmetrically.

I queried some older and wiser EE's who have spent a career on magnetics. We came to the conclusion that the only way this could happen was if the inductor core had some kind of magnetic offset in it, so one polarity of the waveform saturated earlier than the other. However, none of them had ever seen this in a signal inductor like the ones I was testing. The only good explanation was that the inductor core itself was carrying a magnetic offset, a whiff of permanent magnetism. This was mildly astonishing because that is something that linear ferrite cores are explicitly designed NOT to do


I think that's all there is to it. Teese himself refers to the article. If you have inductors made like this, they will sound indeed like no other wah.

No offense to anyone but if you run such a vulnerable business nowadays you should really anticipate the internet in your business plan. Few other electronics projects nowadays the specs and particulars are secret - in analog circuits. This is in fact still wayward technology. Only diy-ers keep the old ge transistor market alive, which is some sign.

Modern companies embrace the internet -- just as a meeting ground with their customers. Look at Seymour Duncan forum eg. It's not like he's scared of diy pickup winders, advice galore. If you want to make it as a boutique pickup winder, go right ahead.

If Teese would really want to make money, he should put his custom made inductors on the market for $50 a piece or something. Then set up a support forum about customizing wahs. It's going to go diy anyway, why not cash in on it? It's being the first or you're out.

I seem to discern a general trend on the Amz website. Initially, all the info was for sale. Only very interested people bought it, a.o. Fulltone. Because the circuits were hidden from the public eye, it was easier for this to go unnoticed. Now the most important schematics are publicly available at the website and the diy community well alive, this is not so easy anymore. So, if you're on the minibooster page, do Jack a favor and click all the google adds, so he makes some money without you having to pay.

but everybody's entitle to a different opinion. of course
8)
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Postby modman » 31 Aug 2007, 23:42

There's a complete list at last apparently. Now it even includes out of production boxes???

The Tone God
Re: Study on the Effect of Schematic Restrictions on this Forum
« Reply #3 on: 21-08-2007, 21:56:33 »

Restricted Products:

Current Production

RMC

RMC1 - RMC6

Zvex

Box of Rock
Fuzz Factory
Machine
Octane
Seek Wah
Ohh Wah
Seek Trem
Tremorama
Jonny Octave
Super Duper 2 in 1
Woolly Mammoth
Ringtone
Lo Fi Loop Junky
Wah Probe
Volume Probe
Fuzz Probe
iMP
Nano Head

Klon

Out of Production

RMC

FK-1 Compressor
Big Quack
Swinewave
MFOB

Zvex

Volume Probe
Drip Guitar

Results:

DIY Replacements

Seek Wah
Ohh Wah
Seek Trem
Tremorama
Super Duper 2 in 1
Lo Fi Loop Junky
Probe series (3)

Confirmed Origins

Octane
Jonny Octave
Fuzz Factory

DIY Similars

Machine
Box of Rock
Woolly Mammoth
Klon

Information

RMC1 - RMC6
Ringtone

No requests

FK-1 Compressor
Big Quack
Swinewave
MFOB
iMP
Nano Head
Volume Probe
Drip Guitar
"The whole point of diy is diy. It's not dsoiyathodtr - do some of it yourself and then have others do the rest" (paulc)
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Postby modman » 05 Oct 2007, 09:56

Analogguru found a whole bunch of the newer EH schematics on a Swiss Service/Repair site some time ago. After some days they were gone.

Lucky us to have found the link in time and download it.

When they were hosted at services such as TheBigupload etc, and published here, they were taken down within hours.

Members offered to host them, hence I just read this on Nelson's website

Electro Harmonix

Unfortunately Due to a threat of legal action by one Mr Barmentloo, the current production EHX Schematics have been removed. However, if you have the time to redraw them, I can host them.

I am looking for old EHX Factory Schems to add here. If you have any I don't have, contact me.


http://electroconducive.googlepages.com/schematics
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Postby Stephengiles » 04 Nov 2007, 17:08

The "factory" circuit of the EH Guitar Synth is my tracing from a bad zerox copy of the original Factory Drawing. There are no doubt mistakes!!
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Postby modman » 28 Nov 2007, 11:26

from diystomp:

aron
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Aron Nelson


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Decisions have been made
« on: 13-10-2007, 14:13:01 »
Reply with quote

As I've posted before, decisions have been made to edit/censor/lock certain posts. Some people don't like that. They would rather everyone simply sift through arguments, people leaving etc....

That's fine in another forum. Not this one. As I said, I feel confident Andrew and I can make this work.

Please let us try and do our work without too much second guessing.

I want people to enjoy themselves here and we are trying.

Aron
« Last Edit: 13-10-2007, 14:25:34 by aron »
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Postby Dirk_Hendrik » 07 Dec 2007, 17:31

Semi Blacklisted:
Radial Tonebone:
http://www.indyguitarist.com/schematics/toneboneclassic.pdf

It used to be on my (and sat there for a year) site till someone started fussing over it at the other place and suddenly I got a request from radial to remove it.

And, posted before on the other place too but suddenly removed without any explanation, the Carl Martin Heavy Drive:
http://www.dirk-hendrik.com/cm_heavy_drive.pdf
Sorry. Plain out of planes.

http://www.dirk-hendrik.com
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Postby modman » 30 Dec 2007, 05:55

Threats over the Analogman's King of Tone:
http://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic ... oxes#16189
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Re: Black List: schematic censorship log book

Postby modman » 18 Mar 2008, 21:07

Mini Qtron factory schematic pulled from free hosting service:

viewtopic.php?p=24733#p24733
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