Pete Cornish - Mystery Pedal [gooped][x-ray'd]

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Re: Pete Cornish - Mystery Pedal [gooped][x-ray'd]

Postby FlyingWild » 23 Oct 2019, 23:01

Looks very interesting, could one of the pots be a 'Blend' pot?

aionios wrote:...And yes, there is an opto-isolator :)


I hope it's not one of the hard to find or rather expensive ones?
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Re: Pete Cornish - Mystery Pedal [gooped][x-ray'd]

Postby aionios » 24 Oct 2019, 00:34

FlyingWild wrote:Looks very interesting, could one of the pots be a 'Blend' pot?

aionios wrote:...And yes, there is an opto-isolator :)


I hope it's not one of the hard to find or rather expensive ones?


NSL-32, fortunately one of the easier and cheaper ones!
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Re: Pete Cornish - Mystery Pedal [gooped][x-ray'd]

Postby Chugs » 25 Oct 2019, 08:27

OC-1?
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Re: Pete Cornish - Mystery Pedal [gooped][x-ray'd]

Postby mookyj » 03 Nov 2019, 01:15

aionios wrote:
johnk wrote:nothing yet?


I don't mean to tease, the layout's just extremely tight and it's been kicking me in the pants the past month or so. I finally was able to hunker down and finish it though. An appetizer...

[ Image ]

Now shooting for the end of November for this, assuming prototyping goes well.


Design this in too small a foot print and using design choices more appropriate for digital circuits does not help you achieve all that you can ring out of the schematic design intent. You of course make fet it to work to some level, but not the best you could achieve tone wise. with what you have here.
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Re: Pete Cornish - Mystery Pedal [gooped][x-ray'd]

Postby mookyj » 03 Nov 2019, 12:30

without dyslexic typing...

Designing this in too small a foot print and using design choices more appropriate for digital circuits does not help you achieve all that you can ring out of the schematic design intent. You can of course can get the layout to work to some level, but not the best you could achieve tone wise. with what you have here.
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Re: Pete Cornish - Mystery Pedal [gooped][x-ray'd]

Postby aionios » 04 Nov 2019, 16:46

mookyj wrote:Designing this in too small a foot print and using design choices more appropriate for digital circuits does not help you achieve all that you can ring out of the schematic design intent. You can of course can get the layout to work to some level, but not the best you could achieve tone wise. with what you have here.


Respectfully...

1) You are missing some crucial information about the "schematic design intent", namely the schematic itself. You don't even have a view of the traces on the underside of the board. So this is a broad and unfounded criticism. It comes off as a pre-packaged posture rather than a conclusion you arrived at based on studying this particular PCB layout.

2) Looking at your post history, I see seven posts, not counting the duplicate. Four of them are talking about your own skills and expertise. Two of them are broadly critical without being constructive in any applicable way. (You were critical of Cornish's original G-2 layout as well and claimed you could do it better than Pete.) Only one of your posts was contributing to a discussion with any specificity, and even that one came from a place of criticism.

3) In the field of DIY guitar effects, we're all hobbyists who spend most of our time immersed in technology from 40-60 years ago. There's a saying, "close enough for rock and roll", that has long been a sort of unofficial slogan for what we do - but it has some grounding in truth as well. This is all low-voltage, low-kilohertz stuff, and it mostly gets distorted later in the chain anyway. It's not going to benefit from gigahertz or megahertz design considerations. At least not in a tangible way, which I'd define as the average guitarist being able to distinguish in a blind test between two circuits with identical schematics but different PCB layouts. That's really what it all comes down to anyway. It's not medical equipment.

The day I become convinced that a meander trace on the PCB is going to help me squeeze out more tone is the day I should probably move on to something else other than nine-volt guitar pedals, because everywhere I look I'm going to see nothing but deficiency and nothing will ever be good enough.

There is always room for improvement in our craft, and we can always learn from those who have more experience, including those who work outside the field. Your experience is extensive, and it'd honestly be fascinating to get a window into a single day at work for you, because nearly everything on your resume is foreign to me.

But, if you are just going to drop in with vague criticisms and no specific suggestions for improvement, you can perhaps understand that we may not be inclined to want to hear it. You'd do well to study the post history of mictester (Chris) on this forum and R.G. Keen on DIYSB and learn from the way they communicate. Those two people are rocket scientists compared to the rest of us, with experience comparable to your own. But they're patient and constructive, and because of that, their contributions have pulled thousands of others forward by leaps and bounds.
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Re: Pete Cornish - Mystery Pedal [gooped][x-ray'd]

Postby mookyj » 10 Nov 2019, 03:16

In your poor response, it is clear I hit a nerve. It is valid criticism without regard to nostalgia, or tech of 40 years ago, in which I was fully immersed. since 1975, rather than stay stuck in it, I evolved with it. Deflecting with personal attacks or assumptions is just poor form, even for you.... For you to assume that I would apply requirements of state of the art medical equipment is rather ignorant. What I do apply is best practices for music gear, and that is without the awful noise floors, and uninspiring tone that some are willing to put up with.

I do not need to see the traces underneath as I can with a general knowledge of circuitry be very close as to what is not connected on the top layer.Very familiar with the base design. You don't have anything on the cutting edge, just another take on the original concept, which is perfectly fine. I did not go thru your design and rip it to shreds, but if you are suggesting it could not be greatly improved, you are drinking your own kool aid. Again, with just a few observations I posted you could take that input and improve it. If you are butt hurt over it, then your feelings are more important than your desire to improve. As one who worked their way up thru more than a few engineering departments before I launched my own, I would have had a short path to the door with a perspective similar to yours.

It is not an elite observation that swiss cheesing a PCB with that density of parts leaves something to be desired. Narrow traces with narrow spaced ground pours is appropriate for so many other designs except audio, effect pedals. The fad of stuffing too much in a small hammond box is a flawed design choice pushed by marketing hype. Making something small because you can or because is cool is fine if you are willing to forgo performance. SMD is not the end all be all as improperly done is something small that also falls short. So rather then seeing valid criticism of a design approach you take the time to make it personal, but didn't bother to see how many people I have personally mentored in other groups and they are making better layouts and having less "odd issues with their builds. Calling out poor design choices is not the same as saying someone is less skilled or stupid. it is a inflated ego or confidence issue to assume that is what is said. You spent the time to fit all that in that form factor, clearly did neat work, and yet you are offended that I point out that you sold yourself short on your efforts. I see that by way of example you mislead others with assumptions that you have mentioned.

You make mention of the Cornish design, it is not a leap for any competent PCB layout person with an audio background to vastly improve it . You and many other engineers fall for the same misguided notion that it's low frequency and all this pcb techniques stuff do not apply. Not remotely true and it is measurable as pedals and amps all operate in very noisy environments from the grid, and from personal devices that emit all over the spectrum. EMI, ingress mitigation, integration of offsets on RC circuits all contribute to degraded performance, Back in the 70's and 80's the same pedals that everyone is orgasming over I got rid of as they performed poorly, unreliable, and noisy as hell. Had I kept them, would have made a handsome profit. Noise gates came of age for a reason.

Good enough for rock and roll is a rather defeatist and lazy perspective when for the same efforts, and a bit more diligence in applications could be making better sounding and less noisy pedals. Not having it the way you want to hear it is a bit entitlement posturing as I can recall in my youth I would have given my eye teeth to have access to information as there is now, and to be guided by any engineer willing to share their best practices and tricks of the trade. This is a sharing of information and ideas group, not a group hug therapy session.
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Re: Pete Cornish - Mystery Pedal [gooped][x-ray'd]

Postby FlyingWild » 10 Nov 2019, 15:15

Dear Mookyj,

I'm interested in PCB layout, and I'm sure my attempts would be deservedly looked down upon by yourself, so would you be open to passing on some of your knowledge? I could post a schematic and the top and bottom PCB layout for say a Big Muff (Eagle PCB file) and you could educate me and maybe others on why you'd do it differently. My design is to fit a Hammond 1590BB which I would consider a fair size for this pedal, many do it in a much smaller enclosure.

I should add, that I etch my own boards at home and started all this a year ago, almost to the day, it is not a commercial venture in any respect, so your advice would purely be helping me make better PCB layouts for my own enjoyment. Home fabrication does also mean I'm limited to two layers and have to insert vias to move from one layer to another or use the leg of a resistor.

If agreeable to you I'll start a new thread, if not that's fine.

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Re: Pete Cornish - Mystery Pedal [gooped][x-ray'd]

Postby mookyj » 10 Nov 2019, 15:56

"Deservedly look down on?" before commenting further, I'll say this- it is of little benefit to critique for any reason other than to see it improved. Looked down on would be personalizing it for reasons I would find less than honorable.

That said, and from further reading your post, I went down nearly the same path back many decades ago doing acid etched boards, and score and peel as I could not afford commercial fab'd pcb's and at the time unaware of tape and mylar which I did later out of high school. If you are willing to work up a two layer stack, then we have more resources to improve implementation of your schematic intent. Let me know what tools (eagle?) you are thinking of using to create your design, and any special features you are hoping to add. Let me know how much background electronic knowledge you have as I would rather not oversimplify it or take it the other way without at least giving you some things to look up as source material to learn from. You can send to me directly or post here for others and we can start there.



FlyingWild wrote:Dear Mookyj,

I'm interested in PCB layout, and I'm sure my attempts would be deservedly looked down upon by yourself, so would you be open to passing on some of your knowledge? I could post a schematic and the top and bottom PCB layout for say a Big Muff (Eagle PCB file) and you could educate me and maybe others on why you'd do it differently. My design is to fit a Hammond 1590BB which I would consider a fair size for this pedal, many do it in a much smaller enclosure.

I should add, that I etch my own boards at home and started all this a year ago, almost to the day, it is not a commercial venture in any respect, so your advice would purely be helping me make better PCB layouts for my own enjoyment. Home fabrication does also mean I'm limited to two layers and have to insert vias to move from one layer to another or use the leg of a resistor.

If agreeable to you I'll start a new thread, if not that's fine.
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Re: Pete Cornish - Mystery Pedal [gooped][x-ray'd]

Postby FlyingWild » 10 Nov 2019, 20:41

I apologise for my poor choice of words.

My Dad got into electronics, many years ago, and I well remember as a kid him using sheets of mylar, reels of thin black tape, and pads on letraset, he would trace off a diagram he'd made on graph paper. It is through him that I have access to a UV box and we made some new etch tanks out of acrylic sheet a couple of months ago after discovering his old original etch tank had really seen better days!

I've started a new thread here: http://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30214

And would be grateful for any thoughts you might have on what I have produced and any tips and advice on how it could be improved.
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Re: Pete Cornish - Mystery Pedal [gooped][x-ray'd]

Postby Seiche » Yesterday, 06:50

This is getting derailed. I just wanted to see the schematic :cry:
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Re: Pete Cornish - Mystery Pedal [gooped][x-ray'd]

Postby palelight » Yesterday, 10:38

Seiche wrote:This is getting derailed. I just wanted to see the schematic :cry:


It wouldn't be a Cornish thread unless it got wildly derailed by arguments about construction, layout, part choice, and Pete's methodologies, [smilie=a_whyme.gif]

Hopefully with some patience, we'll get to see/build what's under the hood of this guy.
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Re: Pete Cornish - Mystery Pedal [gooped][x-ray'd]

Postby andy-h-h » Yesterday, 11:18

Seiche wrote:This is getting derailed. I just wanted to see the schematic :cry:


Yep - bring on the schematic. [smilie=a_biggrin.gif] [smilie=a_biggrin.gif] this is all too serious for my liking.

Poor old Pete Cornish - I hope he never swings by here to read the trash talk he cops. But then why would he? He's probably too busy building and selling pedals to people - something most of us would probably love to making a living from if we could.
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