EH - Clone Theory ( versions )  [schematic]

All about modern commercial stompbox circuits from Electro Harmonix over MXR, Boss and Ibanez into the nineties.
User avatar
Professor SourTone
Solder Soldier
Information
Posts: 197
Joined: 08 Jan 2008, 09:07
Location: London
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 58 times

Post by Professor SourTone »

This was brought up on another forum, and in researching I found this page. I have two old Clone Theories, an earlier one with red graphics and an "edge" switch, and a later one with chorus/vib-vib/flange switch instead. I like the red one better, with the edge "on" always.

This site says they have different chips. It says the earlier version is based on the SAD1024 chip, and the later one on the MN3007. Is this so? I can dig them out and have a look, of course.

http://electroconducive.googlepages.com/ehxclonetheory
EHCloneTheory.pdf
EHX Clone Theory project files
(165.81 KiB) Downloaded 442 times

User avatar
analogguru
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 3238
Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 13:58
Been thanked: 124 times
Contact:

Post by analogguru »

There were two versions, the early one from 1977 with SAD1024A and the 1980 version with MN3007.

They are similar but from a schematic viewpoint they are totally different - not only the BBD has been replaced, the complete circuit was reworked.

guts are always welcome, especially since I don´t trust the EH-1317 (SAD1024A) factory schematic.

analogguru
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.

User avatar
Professor SourTone
Solder Soldier
Information
Posts: 197
Joined: 08 Jan 2008, 09:07
Location: London
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 58 times

Post by Professor SourTone »

WilCo

User avatar
andregarcia57
Cap Cooler
Information
Posts: 572
Joined: 16 Nov 2008, 15:42
Has thanked: 73 times
Been thanked: 109 times

Post by andregarcia57 »

hum... great!

User avatar
Professor SourTone
Solder Soldier
Information
Posts: 197
Joined: 08 Jan 2008, 09:07
Location: London
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 58 times

Post by Professor SourTone »

Sorry, forgot - will attempt this w/e

User avatar
nelson
Breadboard Brother
Information
Posts: 53
Joined: 28 Aug 2007, 20:45
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Post by nelson »

Professor SourTone wrote:Sorry, forgot - will attempt this w/e

I'd love to see them too.

User avatar
Professor SourTone
Solder Soldier
Information
Posts: 197
Joined: 08 Jan 2008, 09:07
Location: London
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 58 times

Post by Professor SourTone »

Image

Vib Flange version
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Edge version
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Professor SourTone
Solder Soldier
Information
Posts: 197
Joined: 08 Jan 2008, 09:07
Location: London
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 58 times

Post by Professor SourTone »

Oddly enough the edge version has the MN3007 and the board layout looks similar to my uneducated eye.

User avatar
analogguru
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 3238
Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 13:58
Been thanked: 124 times
Contact:

Post by analogguru »

Oddly enough the edge version has the MN3007 and the board layout looks similar to my uneducated eye.
Thats not very astonishing. The edge version is from the end of 1979 and the other is from mid 1980.

Thanks for the pictures. Here is a different version, maybe the SAD-version.
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.

User avatar
Professor SourTone
Solder Soldier
Information
Posts: 197
Joined: 08 Jan 2008, 09:07
Location: London
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 58 times

Post by Professor SourTone »

That's interesting - so there appear to be 3 versions

SAD with Edge
EH 3000 MN3007 with Edge
EH 3000 MN3007 with VibFlange

User avatar
borislavgajic
Opamp Operator
Information
Posts: 1542
Joined: 27 Feb 2008, 14:23
Completed builds: ...script phase90,ETI phaser,Ross phaser,mutronC200,vox wah,WH10,FW-3,mutronIII,DrQuack,Penfoldautowah,Tubezipper,
Dipthonizer,seekwah,Talkingpedal,morleywha
...soulpreacher,dynacomp,compulator
...buzzaround,fuzzfactory,screwdriver,sho,superdouper,St-9,RogerMayer octavia,Tychobrahe octavia,paralelluniverse,string damper,slowgear
...CE-2,ibanez fL301,EH theCloneTheory
EHX bassmicrosynth,EHX EnglishMuffin,Tube Phaser,springtubereverb ,greyDOD,FulldriveII mosfet,OCD,VOX repeat percussion,RingStinger,Meatball,12stage phaser....
Location: Sombor , Serbia
Has thanked: 131 times
Been thanked: 277 times

Post by borislavgajic »

thanks for great pictures :applause:

User avatar
theehman
Diode Debunker
Information
Posts: 710
Joined: 16 Aug 2007, 16:52
Location: Clear Creek, IN
Has thanked: 98 times
Been thanked: 105 times
Contact:

Post by theehman »

Professor SourTone wrote:That's interesting - so there appear to be 3 versions

SAD with Edge
EH 3000 MN3007 with Edge
EH 3000 MN3007 with VibFlange
Are the slide switches in your units wired the same? Maybe you have a transitional unit?
Ron Neely II
Electro-Harmonix info: http://electroharmonix.vintageusaguitars.com
Home of RonSound effects: http://www.ronsound.com
fx schematics and repairs

User avatar
Professor SourTone
Solder Soldier
Information
Posts: 197
Joined: 08 Jan 2008, 09:07
Location: London
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 58 times

Post by Professor SourTone »

They can't be wired the same because the functionality is different. There do seem to be a couple of extra caps on the trace side of one of the circuit boards. Unfortunately once again I do not have the units with me...

User avatar
theehman
Diode Debunker
Information
Posts: 710
Joined: 16 Aug 2007, 16:52
Location: Clear Creek, IN
Has thanked: 98 times
Been thanked: 105 times
Contact:

Post by theehman »

Professor SourTone wrote:They can't be wired the same because the functionality is different. There do seem to be a couple of extra caps on the trace side of one of the circuit boards. Unfortunately once again I do not have the units with me...
I think those caps are on the back of the board due to space reasons.
Ron Neely II
Electro-Harmonix info: http://electroharmonix.vintageusaguitars.com
Home of RonSound effects: http://www.ronsound.com
fx schematics and repairs

User avatar
V1nce69
Information
Posts: 49
Joined: 10 Nov 2013, 08:01
my favorite amplifier: Ampeg
Completed builds: Veroboards builds:
Throbak Overdrive Boost
Wampler Ecstasy
Creepy Fingers Doomidrive
Black Arts Quantum Mystic
Roger Mayer Voodoo Bass
Idiot box Blowerbox
Hudson Sidecar

Pcb builds:
Fulltone 69 (GGG kit)
Russian Big Muff (Musikding kit)
EHX Bassballs (home etched using Topopiccione layout)
BJFE BBOD (home etched, thx FSB)
Triangle Muff (Guitar PCB board)
Deluxe Bass Fuzz (home etched,gausmarkov.net layout)
Clone Theory Chorus (Celeste pcb from lectric-fx)
Cornish G2 (home etch, layout thx FSB)
Shin-Ei FY-2 Ge version (home etched, own layout)
Klon (Aion Refractor pcb)
Mutron Phasor II (home etched, layout thx JohnK)
Sunny-T (pcb by guitar pcb)
Rocket Overdrive (pcb by Pepers' pedals)
Sonomatic Deluxe Tape Delay (pcb by Skidmark)
Black Arts Quantum Mystic (adapted storyboardist layout)
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 110 times

Post by V1nce69 »

I own a vintage Clone Theory that is an EDGE SAD version.
Here are some pictures of its guts:
outside view
outside view
inside view
inside view
the board, rear side
the board, rear side
the board, front side
the board, front side
original EH1317 schematic
original EH1317 schematic
May be these can be of some interest to all of you. :D

Vince

User avatar
Scruffie
Opamp Operator
Information
Posts: 1739
Joined: 13 Mar 2009, 17:59
Location: UK
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 170 times

Post by Scruffie »

Having traced through those MN3007 units above (they are both wired the same for the edge switch so I don't know why they sound different but the edge one is just a transitional model) I think i've discovered that both Tom Boy and subsequently Nelsons schematics are incorrect, here's what i've got so far;

This applies to the Nelson schematic;
No - C19
No - C20
No - C7
C22 - 560pF
C17 - Possibly 220nF?
R33 & 34 - 220k
5k Cancel Trim (No R10 & 11)
C8 - 100nF

R21, 22 & C14 wrong, R22 (160k, maybe 150k on the other unit) and R21 (1k?) with switch pole coming from the center, R21 goes through 100nF to ground.

Output, Pin 7 through 1k? (switch pole connects here) with ?? Cap to ground in to ?? Output cap with 100k pull down.

If anyone has a unit that can help confirming all the cap values and those 3 questionable resistors that'd be a help in getting a correct schematic.

User avatar
phibes
Transistor Tuner
Information
Posts: 1107
Joined: 10 Dec 2008, 01:17
my favorite amplifier: HIWATT motherfucker!
Location: United States
Has thanked: 75 times
Been thanked: 189 times
Contact:

Post by phibes »

Email me Scruff, I got a SAD1024 unit.
GuitarlCarl - "TGP = The Gear Polishers"

Image Ken

User avatar
Scruffie
Opamp Operator
Information
Posts: 1739
Joined: 13 Mar 2009, 17:59
Location: UK
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 170 times

Post by Scruffie »

As far as I can tell, this is now 100% correct for the MN3007 version except for the values of C5 & 6 which I have left as 680pF for now as the original has a cap labelled 412 and I cannot confirm what the actual value is, both 412pF and 4,1nF seem like very odd values.

Vib Flange Switch is shown incorrectly, 2nd half should be in N.C position and the input opamp should be U1A - RC4558.

Thanks to pinkjimiphoton for confirming some values from his original units.

Image

User avatar
pinkjimiphoton
Transistor Tuner
Information
Posts: 1242
Joined: 12 Sep 2010, 19:03
my favorite amplifier: my own, a redesigned princeton
Completed builds: so fucking many goddamn pedals it would make your ass hurt just looking at 'em all!!!!!
there's videos that totally suck of about 90 of 'em here:
http://youtube.com/666pinkster
gimme a like: http://facebook.com/pinkjimiphotonrocks
Location: new world order land (formerly la-la land)
Has thanked: 358 times
Been thanked: 479 times
Contact:

Post by pinkjimiphoton »

alright, ya got it done!! sweet!! i wanna build one now, cuz the other one is similar (the toppopiccione site one) but i think it's a modded small clone, not a clone theory.

the actual mn3007 clone theory is THE one to have. the sad1024 version with the "edge" switch is pretty much a "feature" that lets the full frequency of that hiss come thru... ;)
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
Slava Ukraini!

User avatar
Scruffie
Opamp Operator
Information
Posts: 1739
Joined: 13 Mar 2009, 17:59
Location: UK
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 170 times

Post by Scruffie »

pinkjimiphoton wrote:alright, ya got it done!! sweet!! i wanna build one now, cuz the other one is similar (the toppopiccione site one) but i think it's a modded small clone, not a clone theory.

the actual mn3007 clone theory is THE one to have. the sad1024 version with the "edge" switch is pretty much a "feature" that lets the full frequency of that hiss come thru... ;)
Nah the toppopiccione one is a clone theory, only the filtering & feedback is a bit wrong, there's some unnecessary parts and a few wrong values.

But yup, got it all confirmed and eventually got hold a copy of the factory schematic, my redraw is correct.

Keep an eye on the madbean forum in the next few days too :wink:

Post Reply