Dumbloid  [traced]

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Re: Dumbloid

Postby okgb » 19 Nov 2013, 15:41

giving a few bux for the knowledge & help is well worth it, but debunking pedals has saved me allot
of money [ & buyer's remorse ] when I discover I can mod something I have, or I have it already instead
of buying into hype & dreams .

Where do I contribute ?
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Re: Dumbloid

Postby deltafred » 19 Nov 2013, 16:46

Nocentelli wrote:[quote="deltafred]Whatever happened to the tracers fund, my memory is not what it used to be? Did people just get bored with discovering that there is nothing new in the pedal world and paying hundreds of dollars for yet another minor variation on (...insert popular pedal topology here...) was just plain stupid.[/quote]

If you even contributed a single dollar to the fund, you can still read the whole sorry tale in the "Tracer's fund" sub-forum. Short version = The last pedal to be purchased took a huge amount of time to be traced, some people got upset about the time it was taking, some people left the forum over the whole debacle. I'm a bit sad about that, since the funds was a great big "fuck you" to all those boutique builders trying to hide their copied+modified circuits under the guise of "intellectual property", and there was a lot of animosity between people who were/are instrumental to the success of this wonderful website.

The fund was a very good system for the time: A time when many "boutique builders" were gooping their circuits and claiming all sorts of nonsense about innovation, a time when several well known and well-respected builders were repeatedly claiming it was illegal to post pictures of pedal guts, or to post schematics that had been traced from units.

A few years down the line, Analogman (early FSB-hater) gets busted over the originality of his King of Tone (Marshall clone), Paul C's Timmy is ripped off by first Danelectro, and then by Lovepedal, and suddenly freestompboxes are not the evil pedal pirate bootleggers anymore, but a public service for the discerning and ethical pedal addict. Even Zvex has published some of his schematics and started knocking out a "DIY" type build-your-own pedal kit.[/quote]


Thanks for reminding me, yes it is all coming back now. I am a Tracers fund member so should go and read up on it.
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Re: Dumbloid

Postby Nocentelli » 19 Nov 2013, 19:58

okgb wrote:Where do I contribute ?


Well, the FSB tracer's fund has been wound up as noted. It's something that requires a great deal of goodwill and trust, something maybe went awry in the end. Another problem with the system is that there may be a lot of momentum behind the first project - Let's say everyone wants to get the Dumbloid traced and is happy to chip in - but once it is traced and revealed to be a slight variation on X, the degooped pedal has to be sold and funds more or less recouped. These funds then have to be considered property of FSB or some other non-partisan entity, and can be used towards the next trace. But what do we trace? The last fund went through long-ish periods where we couldn't decide on what to buy next because of lack of interesting or available holy grails, or because no-one could agree on what to get (not another overdrive!) .
brownwhopping wrote:How can I learn by reading threads an making circuits, when some day I can see a lawsuit or somebody beat me in the face for that?

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Re: Dumbloid

Postby CodeMonk » 19 Nov 2013, 23:41

deltafred wrote:
CodeMonk wrote:NASA goops their PCB's. :)
At least for the flight stuff. For environmental and stability reasons.
But its clear goop.

+1
Most PCBs in military aircraft are gooped but it is soft clear goop that can be removed easily for repair purposes. It is there to suppress vibration (and hence component lead fatigue and breakage) and to protect from condensation. With rapid height and hence temperature changes condensation is a real problem.
....


In NASA's case, repair is still a MAJOR PITA.
I had to replace an IC once in a radar module for one on the shuttles (I worked at JPL at the time).
It took me all day long.
They were VERY specific about not allowing the remaining goop to raise up (thereby possibly creating air bubbles, when re-gooped).
We always stuck freshly gooped parts in a vacuum chamber anyway though.
The goop is still considered an epoxy (they use a 2 part compound), but still had the consistency of your typical latex or silicone type sealant.
(In addition to soldering flight boards, I also worked in the Polymerics lab).


Anyway...I welcome our new members that came over from TGP.
As long as you behave yourselves :) (I would hate you if you were assholes no matter where you came from).

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Re: Dumbloid

Postby sinner » 19 Nov 2013, 23:59

Stellablue wrote:
sinner wrote:I'm sorry TGP dudes, but we don't do much pedal investigation recently. We are quite happy to talk about boobs, dix, cox and insult each one of you and our self though

How about pterodactyls, do you talk about them?


Are you retarded?

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Re: Dumbloid

Postby deltafred » 20 Nov 2013, 00:46

CodeMonk wrote:In NASA's case, repair is still a MAJOR PITA.

It certainly sounds worse than I used to have to go through. At least we never had to resort to a vacuum chamber.

Last time I repaired an aircraft board it was a real PITA but it was a choice between hold up a flight test program for several weeks, and possibly months if customs got involved, while a box was shipped back to the USA for repair or let me at it with an iron and have it back flying in a couple of days.

No one else in our department was prepared to tackle flight stuff but I was young and impetuous (some would say stupid) but it did me no harm to my career and got me some pretty good trips repairing equipment in far flung places. I don't have the eyesight for it anymore (and have been retired for 13 years anyway).
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Re: Dumbloid

Postby bloomz » 20 Nov 2013, 01:46

sinner wrote:
Stellablue wrote:
sinner wrote:I'm sorry TGP dudes, but we don't do much pedal investigation recently. We are quite happy to talk about boobs, dix, cox and insult each one of you and our self though

How about pterodactyls, do you talk about them?


Are you retarded?


Do you talk about dix and cox much? :shock: :secret:

ewwwwww :hmmm:
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Re: Dumbloid

Postby sinner » 20 Nov 2013, 01:49

bloomz wrote:
sinner wrote:
Stellablue wrote:
sinner wrote:I'm sorry TGP dudes, but we don't do much pedal investigation recently. We are quite happy to talk about boobs, dix, cox and insult each one of you and our self though

How about pterodactyls, do you talk about them?


Are you retarded?


Do you talk about dix and cox much? :shock: :secret:

ewwwwww :hmmm:


Can you translate it to Pterodactylian?

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Re: Dumbloid

Postby bloomz » 20 Nov 2013, 01:59

Hey nocentelli - where can I find the tracer's fund subforum? I tried but didn't exactly find it

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Re: Dumbloid

Postby Nocentelli » 20 Nov 2013, 06:56

Ah, there's the rub. It's only visible and accessible once a member has contributed (just like the "boutique" section is only accessible once you register at FSB), and since the fund has been wound up there is no way to contribute. Kind of like a quasi-Catch 22. All the good stuff like the schematics and commentary was moved across to the main forum once each trace was completed.
brownwhopping wrote:How can I learn by reading threads an making circuits, when some day I can see a lawsuit or somebody beat me in the face for that?

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Re: Dumbloid

Postby okgb » 20 Nov 2013, 16:24

Looks like those who want to see the Dumbloid will need to organize on their own , but I'd imagine
posting pix here will get the tracing help , just not the funds .
Another alternative , an owner could send it to someone for degooping and post info here [ FSB ]
and get their pedal back working as it always did , sounded like enough people were interested outside
this normal avenue.

With the demise of the tracing fund, looks like the fsb haters & bootweakers had scored a victory

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Re: Dumbloid

Postby rocklander » 21 Nov 2013, 00:05

okgb wrote:With the demise of the tracing fund, looks like the fsb haters & bootweakers had scored a victory

this is among the saddest of results from the saga, and even more a victory for those is the loss of some prominent tracing members :(
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Re: Dumbloid

Postby Leroy » 21 Nov 2013, 02:26

These guys looking for a $100 $600 dollar pedal... Those posts by these guys are pure comedy over on tgp.

Some people tried to step in and explain that these SUPERDUPER pedals are nothing but simple circuits and need hype to sell. That hype came right from these guys on this thread. This Dumb pedal, is another joke that now cost $600. I say let these people burn their money, they deserve it, buy this new invention of a stompbox.
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Re: Dumbloid

Postby bootle » 21 Nov 2013, 04:31

Leroy wrote:These guys looking for a $100 $600 dollar pedal... Those posts by these guys are pure comedy over on tgp.

Some people tried to step in and explain that these SUPERDUPER pedals are nothing but simple circuits and need hype to sell. That hype came right from these guys on this thread. This Dumb pedal, is another joke that now cost $600. I say let these people burn their money, they deserve it, buy this new invention of a stompbox.


Dumbloid and Dumbloider. :lol:
Did you read the post on the TGP thread saying the Dumbloid sounded better than the clean channel on a $4000 amp, so $600 was a 'bargain' because it saved him $3,400 by not having to buy another amp. :lol: :roll:
To be fair there are a few people talking sense in that thread, but they just get flamed by the other clowns by being told they're 'jealous' because they don't have one.
It's like being back in junior high over there.
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Re: Dumbloid

Postby itkindaworks » 21 Nov 2013, 05:23

Leroy wrote:These guys looking for a $100 $600 dollar pedal... Those posts by these guys are pure comedy over on tgp.

Some people tried to step in and explain that these SUPERDUPER pedals are nothing but simple circuits and need hype to sell. That hype came right from these guys on this thread. This Dumb pedal, is another joke that now cost $600. I say let these people burn their money, they deserve it, buy this new invention of a stompbox.

You didn't even get to read the original thread where the original poster got butthurt and deleted it.
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Re: Dumbloid

Postby bloomz » 21 Nov 2013, 06:44

So none of us have been hostile to you guys here - at least at this point in time. (I know nothing of previous hostilities - and that's obviously regrettable)

Why the hostility for wanting to see what this phenomenal sounding pedal is made of?

And obviously find a more reasonably priced version of it? I didn't sell mine because I didn't love it - I sold it because it was too expensive.

Have previous hostilities soured the cause of FSB? Is it (discovery) a dead issue and are we barking up the wrong tree here?

Somebody will clone this eventually - I think it's the way of the world.
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Re: Dumbloid

Postby Nocentelli » 21 Nov 2013, 07:03

I'd try to develop a thicker skin if you want to stick around and get that pedal traced: The last three posts aren't particularly hostile, it's just that regulars here at FSB have witnessed the same scenario play out literally dozens of times. A massively overpriced booteek pedal being hyped beyond all credibility on TGP, suggestions of shilling, sounds like a Dumble, gooped, naysayers being derided for not believing the hype etc etc. It always turns out to be a clone or near clone of a known pedal.
brownwhopping wrote:How can I learn by reading threads an making circuits, when some day I can see a lawsuit or somebody beat me in the face for that?

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Re: Dumbloid

Postby rocklander » 21 Nov 2013, 07:22

what Nocentelli said...

bloomz wrote:Why the hostility for wanting to see what this phenomenal sounding pedal is made of?

this is the sort of statement that may get some grief from locals here.
the vast majority of members here (at least regular posters) are interested in facts and empirical data. phrases like 'phenomenal sounding' wont elicit much if any positive response from FSBers cos it can't be measured and is largely uninteresting to those who care bout the nuts, bolts and science of a pedal.
it's great as a sales pitch for a pedal, but as with any sales pitch ya gotta know your customer. the customers here are invariably put off by that kind of language. ironically you'll actually be much more likely to get folks keen to help you (by that I mean involved in tracing) if you bag the crap out of it and say you reckon it's prolly just a tubescreamer in disguise... :lol:

:popcorn:
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Re: Dumbloid

Postby bloomz » 21 Nov 2013, 08:50

I'm most certainly not trying to sell it - but I get your drift.

And I do subscribe to there being a reason it's gooped and most likely not a good reason.

I guess I'll shut up about this phony expensive piece of shit now...even tho I do wish I knew what it was a copy of.
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Re: Dumbloid

Postby biliousfrog » 21 Nov 2013, 09:51

bloomz wrote:I didn't sell mine because I didn't love it - I sold it because it was too expensive.



That kinda sums it up doesn't it? You obviously didn't love it because you thought it was over-priced. If I'd spent a large sum of money on something and loved it I wouldn't then sell it.

Do you think it's worth $200?...That's the price of a new Zen Drive, worth every penny IMHO....although you seem to be saying that it's not even worth that much so I wonder how good it actually is? Could it be possible that telling people you've owned a $600 pedal is actually worth more than the pedal itself :hmmm:
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